The 2008 Sunday Times Rich List / Forbes billionaires 2009

This is an annual event for myself, I look forward to looking through the next one all through the year.

It'll be in this Sunday's paper, so I thought I'd start the thread now while I'm thinking about it.

What are my fellow citizens of Machine Nation's views on this almanac of the amazingly affluent?

I am unlikely to feature myself Ard Taoiseach and will not looking at it. I am planning to cut the grass and pot out the tomato plants.

cactus flower wrote:

I am unlikely to feature myself Ard Taoiseach and will not looking at it. I am planning to cut the grass and pot out the tomato plants.

Fair enough, would you read Sunday newspapers regularly cactus flower? The minimum entry to the Irish list is €51 million. That's a Euromillions win in itself!

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

I am unlikely to feature myself Ard Taoiseach and will not looking at it. I am planning to cut the grass and pot out the tomato plants.

Fair enough, would you read Sunday newspapers regularly cactus flower? The minimum entry to the Irish list is €51 million. That's a Euromillions win in itself!

Perhaps if my quickpick comes up...

It would be interesting perhaps to compare last year and this year's entries. But the garden calls.

cactus flower wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

I am unlikely to feature myself Ard Taoiseach and will not looking at it. I am planning to cut the grass and pot out the tomato plants.

Fair enough, would you read Sunday newspapers regularly cactus flower? The minimum entry to the Irish list is €51 million. That's a Euromillions win in itself!

Perhaps if my quickpick comes up...

It would be interesting perhaps to compare last year and this year's entries. But the garden calls.

Well, the level required for entry has risen by €3 million and I'd be interested to see how many building/property related entries there are. Every second one last year was, so it'll be a good exercise to juxtapose this list with the last one. We'll be seeing that preponderance of building wealth abate significantly in the years ahead.

I won't be reading it. I have no interest and the whole idea seems rather sordid and vulgar. Is your money a measure of your worth as a person?

And anyway, I only buy Irish newspapers.

DeGaulle wrote:

I won't be reading it. I have no interest and the whole idea seems rather sordid and vulgar. Is your money a measure of your worth as a person?

And anyway, I only buy Irish newspapers.

Indeed - it boils down to just richman's bling in one view though it means power unfortunately and those responsible partially for our consumer tastes in some measure... there's people out there creating markets for goji berries, flash sports cars and McMansions - those people might be among this crowd..

DeGaulle wrote:

I won't be reading it. I have no interest and the whole idea seems rather sordid and vulgar. Is your money a measure of your worth as a person?

It's not, but I like looking at numbers and seeing different people rise and fall in the rankings. Plus, there's lots of interesting stuff about the various people on the list.

Quote :

And anyway, I only buy Irish newspapers.

Well, I do buy the Sunday Tribune and/or thw Sunday Business Post with it!

For the purposes of comparison, here is the 2007 list.

You'll see me certainly in the top twenty...

johnfás wrote:

You'll see me certainly in the top twenty...

You're John Magnier?

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

johnfás wrote:

You'll see me certainly in the top twenty...

You're John Magnier?

I wouldn't like to give away my identity

Auditor #9 wrote:

DeGaulle wrote:

I won't be reading it. I have no interest and the whole idea seems rather sordid and vulgar. Is your money a measure of your worth as a person?

And anyway, I only buy Irish newspapers.

Indeed - it boils down to just richman's bling in one view though it means power unfortunately and those responsible partially for our consumer tastes in some measure... there's people out there creating markets for goji berries, flash sports cars and McMansions - those people might be among this crowd..

I'd argue that you're both missing the point - there are lots of shorter lists as well to show the wealthiest musicians, property developers, writers. I'm always interested to see how the positions change from year to year (and the list kindly points out last year's position).

There are also profiles of the movers and shakers and though I'm not wildly interested in economics, I'm interested to see how the Tetra Pak boys are doing, the Sainsburys (unless I'm mistaken about them?).

It's also worth seeing how industry and the nouveau riche compare with the landed gentry.

I'll certainly be reading it tomorrow.

I try to get the Sunday Times, the Observer (oh I miss Euan Ferguson) and the Trib on a Sunday, though I rarely have time to read much of any of them. In fact, whatever I've bought in the last two weeks is still unopened.

I do like to have a gander at it. We know a couple of people who make the list so it is always interesting to voyeur at them

johnfás wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

johnfás wrote:

You'll see me certainly in the top twenty...

You're John Magnier?

I wouldn't like to give away my identity

Well, you're either him or John Dorrance. I can't see you being JP.

Kate P wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

DeGaulle wrote:

I won't be reading it. I have no interest and the whole idea seems rather sordid and vulgar. Is your money a measure of your worth as a person?

And anyway, I only buy Irish newspapers.

Indeed - it boils down to just richman's bling in one view though it means power unfortunately and those responsible partially for our consumer tastes in some measure... there's people out there creating markets for goji berries, flash sports cars and McMansions - those people might be among this crowd..

I'd argue that you're both missing the point - there are lots of shorter lists as well to show the wealthiest musicians, property developers, writers. I'm always interested to see how the positions change from year to year (and the list kindly points out last year's position).

So am I, and the list has a star for a new entry which looks good. I have a theaory that as a country grows in wealth, confidence and stature, the listings of its musicians fall. The faster they fall, the faster the country grows. Look at U2 for example, when Ireland was an entrepreneurial waste-ground and very few made much money(outside horses, supermarkets or food) U2 were sitting very pretty in the top 5. Now, in an Ireland where anyone can make it(and usually does) they are being progressively de-rated to the extent that they are now barely in the top 20. A successful Ireland will see them at about 50th in the rankings by 2018.

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There are also profiles of the movers and shakers and though I'm not wildly interested in economics, I'm interested to see how the Tetra Pak boys are doing, the Sainsburys (unless I'm mistaken about them?).

The Sainsburys don't run or own Tetra Pak, they're shareholders in the eponymous supermarket chain. The Rausings control Tetra Pak.

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It's also worth seeing how industry and the nouveau riche compare with the landed gentry.

Indeed, the List has a break-down at about page 8 of the make-up of the list. As London welcomed hordes of foreign billionaires, fitness chains made dozens rich, internet ventures became popular again and old-fashioned trades like steel made come-backs, landed gentry have been traduced in successive Rich Lists. Now with development land prices falling both in Ireland and the UK, we could see them wiped out altogether.

Quote :

I'll certainly be reading it tomorrow.

As will I!

Quote :

I try to get the Sunday Times, the Observer (oh I miss Euan Ferguson) and the Trib on a Sunday, though I rarely have time to read much of any of them. In fact, whatever I've bought in the last two weeks is still unopened.

Really? I have my juicy bits(Business, News Review, Magazine, Culture etc.) devoured by mid-afternoon. Ever since I stopped going to Mass at 12 and went to the Vigil instead, I've been able to devote much more energy to reading them through.

What on earth is a Goji berry?

An over-priced health fad
http://www.ireland.com/blogs/pricewatch/2007/07/02/a-goji-berry-a-day/

Quote :

The Sainsburys don't run or own Tetra Pak, they're shareholders in the eponymous supermarket chain. The Rausings control Tetra Pak.

I actually did know that and was in the middle of making a list of people who'd show up - but I couldn't remember if there were actual Sainsburys or if I was imagining them. Hans Rausing and a brother, isn't it? I think they're Swedish. I'll be reminded tomorrow.

For my sins I have a few grinds on a Sunday morning because it's the only time I can be fairly sure I'll be around - sometimes I don't even get the papers until pretty late in the evening and then have to make do with what I can get. Leaving Cert in 6 weeks and no grinds ever again - only long Sunday mornings with the papers. Amen.

But the business, holiday/travel and sports usually go straight into the recycling and I read the Observer Magazine, The Culture, Review and main news sections then. Observer Food comes before everything else. I don't bother much with the ST magazine, though I like the Life in the Day and Best of Times - most of the long articles are a bit surreal - investigative stuff of a rather peculiar nature with some exceptions.

I can't wait to see Séan Quinn's wealth after 2007's gyrations and turbulences. I wonder how much Anglo has burnt off his wealth mountain?

Here's last year's Irish list -

And here's a link to this year's musical millionaires which is interesting in the context of what you were saying above, AT. Not Irish though.

Kate P wrote:

Here's last year's Irish list -

And here's a link to this year's musical millionaires which is interesting in the context of what you were saying above, AT. Not Irish though.

I'll look at it tomorrow. It's like Christmas, I don't like to know who's up or down before the list is in my hands having been taken out of the plastic sheeting enveloping it and the other magazine supplements. It'd be too much like opening Chistmas presents before the day.

Any conclusions yet, Ard-Taoiseach, or are you still browsing?

cactus flower wrote:

Any conclusions yet, Ard-Taoiseach, or are you still browsing?

A year of change, that's for sure. The easy money of building and property is over, and we won't be returning to that febrile atmosphere for another 5-10 years.

I'm encouraged that people like Seán Quinn, Dermot Desmond, Barry O'Callaghan and so on are still raking it in and building highly successful business ventures.

The proportion of money made in building/property has fallen dramatically, with stock exchange woes compounding certain individuals' wealth(the Murtaghs are a case in point here).

However, in the face of a 40% fall in the ISEQ, 20% falls in house prices and an increasingly challenging global out-look, I'm impressed at the resilience exhibited by these figures. We won't experience the same fall in the ISEQ, house prices seem to be just over half way through their adjustment(at least if you believe the IMF's analysis) and the credit crunch can't go on forever.

It's a year to mark time, condolidate and change strategy. Based on these figures, I feel our wealth-creating class have what it takes.

I think, if the foreign billionaires get itchy feet, that the UK list's wealth will fall by about 20%. Only three out of the top ten richest in Britain were born there. That ain't sustainable.