Tipping in Restaurants - Reduce it

WorldbyStorm wrote:

Hey, that's interesting about the ones not paying minimum wage. Is there any way, short of libeling them that we could tell which are which?

It's not libel if it's true.

The place in question was Fitzer's in Temple Bar. I'm not really sure what their wage structure is in Dawson Street, I think they may get minimum wage. I think the Chatham Brasserie (also owned by them) might be the same as Temple Bar, though. The kitchen staff in TB got a cut of the tips and service charge, but they also got half their salary in cash.

The Bad Ass Cafe also paid pretty poorly, and the Boulevard Cafe too. Oh, and Little Caesar's were even worse than Fitzer's, though they may have mended their ways since then.

Pasta Fresca used to pay below minimum wage, but changed that policy a few years back. They do take a cut for the head office staff though. I remember working one Saturday night there, and the total take for tips and service charge was well over €1200. Around that time, the owner decided that the tips would be pooled and divided up at the end of the week. From the total amount of tips that night, I got a whopping €20! (And no, we didn't have 600 staff on that night...)

That story about €1,200 tips in one night and you getting €20 is scandalous. I don't agree with that and I think it is a questionable practice. I had heard in the past that P.F. was a great place to work for tips. It is legal to use the service charge to bring the wage up to minimum wage. I don't think the owner is entitled to keep the excess particularly if it is a tip for the staff. I may be wrong on that though.

BTW - I generally tip €3 to €5 for a haircut. Sheppards on Wicklow Street always do a good job.

I was in Little Ceaser's in Terenure a few weeks ago. The service was terrible and then the manager was incredibly rude to me. Their credit card machine had broken down which was fair enough but it had been broken for several days and there was no sign up or anything telling you this when you sat down (which I would have thought is mannerly as most people don't pay cash in a restaurant). Then the tone he took when he told me this was really rude, he basically spoke to me as if he was a school teacher telling me to go out in the rain around to the ATM to get the cash. Needless to say, I am not returning to that establishment.

Sigh... I guess we need a restaurant review page!

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

That story about €1,200 tips in one night and you getting €20 is scandalous. I don't agree with that and I think it is a questionable practice. I had heard in the past that P.F. was a great place to work for tips. It is legal to use the service charge to bring the wage up to minimum wage. I don't think the owner is entitled to keep the excess particularly if it is a tip for the staff. I may be wrong on that though.

BTW - I generally tip €3 to €5 for a haircut. Sheppards on Wicklow Street always do a good job.

I don't think it was kept by the owner or used to make up MW. It was just that the managers took a chunk, the kitchen, the office staff, the favourite waiters of the manager. I presume I got less because I was only working one night that week, but in fairness, I wasn't working for them at that stage; I just came back to do them a favour for one night.

It used to be good for tips, but it got kinda ridiculous towards the end of my time there.

edit

It's not anger. She's well known, and I didn't include the most common allegation.

I've edited it anyway.

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

That story about €1,200 tips in one night and you getting €20 is scandalous. I don't agree with that and I think it is a questionable practice. I had heard in the past that P.F. was a great place to work for tips. It is legal to use the service charge to bring the wage up to minimum wage. I don't think the owner is entitled to keep the excess particularly if it is a tip for the staff. I may be wrong on that though.

BTW - I generally tip €3 to €5 for a haircut. Sheppards on Wicklow Street always do a good job.

Was there not a case a year or so ago, in which staff took a restaurant to court over the issues of "credit card" tips and lost. Since then I always try to give cash, although I really agree with the Berlin waiters who abolished tipping in the interests of dignity.

I was also shocked to hear that the Revenue taxes waiting staff on assumed cash tips - this seems outrageous as the staff may never have received them.

This whole thing seem grossly unfair and I would prefer to see people on better salaries, no tipping, and if we don't like the service go elsewhere.

I think tipping is good and gives much better service. In the USA it works because it is factored into the cost of the food - you pay less because the restaurant's overheads are reduced. In Ireland it doesn't work because you pay for the overheads and are then supposed to tip.

I have had bad experiences with service in Germany. That is in a nation that is renowned for its citizen's industry and efficiency!

cactus flower wrote:

Was there not a case a year or so ago, in which staff took a restaurant to court over the issues of "credit card" tips and lost. Since then I always try to give cash, although I really agree with the Berlin waiters who abolished tipping in the interests of dignity.

Was that an Irish case? On what grounds did they lose?

There was an American case recently where Starbucks was ordered to refund tips to employees and past employees to make up for the amount taken and given to managers there.

cactus flower wrote:

I was also shocked to hear that the Revenue taxes waiting staff on assumed cash tips - this seems outrageous as the staff may never have received them.

Again, does that happen here? I've never heard of it here, though I do know it happens in the States. (I heard once about the tips being calculated as 10% of what the waiter in question had entered on the till system.)

cactus flower wrote:

This whole thing seem grossly unfair and I would prefer to see people on better salaries, no tipping, and if we don't like the service go elsewhere.

Somehow I just don't see this happening, here or in the States. I think it's the case in Barcelona, though, that tips are built into the price you pay, and it goes directly to the staff.

TheBear wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

I was also shocked to hear that the Revenue taxes waiting staff on assumed cash tips - this seems outrageous as the staff may never have received them.

Again, does that happen here? I've never heard of it here, though I do know it happens in the States. (I heard once about the tips being calculated as 10% of what the waiter in question had entered on the till system.)

Some peope are doing quite well out of tips and paying nothing. I don't think being a waiter or waitress means you should have to pay less for the benefits of living in Ireland. I also believe that some people don't declare tips when claiming welfare allowance - another acceptable Irish fraudulent activity.

TheBear wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

This whole thing seem grossly unfair and I would prefer to see people on better salaries, no tipping, and if we don't like the service go elsewhere.

Somehow I just don't see this happening, here or in the States. I think it's the case in Barcelona, though, that tips are built into the price you pay, and it goes directly to the staff.

Really this is the best outcome and it is where Ireland started from. We have come away from it organically, through restaurants charging service charges for larger parties (which makes no sense because they pack more people into a lesser area than small parties) and through the generosity of people to those who were being paid very little.
The Government has pursued a policy of a decent wage no matter what the tips are through a vastly increased minimum wage. We now need to play our part and stop tipping so much. Hopefuly, Restaurant owners would then pay the better performers more money, though the unions (e.g. Mandate) would probably disagree with the inequity of lazy people being paid less.

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

TheBear wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

I was also shocked to hear that the Revenue taxes waiting staff on assumed cash tips - this seems outrageous as the staff may never have received them.

Again, does that happen here? I've never heard of it here, though I do know it happens in the States. (I heard once about the tips being calculated as 10% of what the waiter in question had entered on the till system.)

Some peope are doing quite well out of tips and paying nothing. I don't think being a waiter or waitress means you should have to pay less for the benefits of living in Ireland. I also believe that some people don't declare tips when claiming welfare allowance - another acceptable Irish fraudulent activity.

TheBear wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

This whole thing seem grossly unfair and I would prefer to see people on better salaries, no tipping, and if we don't like the service go elsewhere.

Somehow I just don't see this happening, here or in the States. I think it's the case in Barcelona, though, that tips are built into the price you pay, and it goes directly to the staff.

Really this is the best outcome and it is where Ireland started from. We have come away from it organically, through restaurants charging service charges for larger parties (which makes no sense because they pack more people into a lesser area than small parties) and through the generosity of people to those who were being paid very little.
The Government has pursued a policy of a decent wage no matter what the tips are through a vastly increased minimum wage. We now need to play our part and stop tipping so much. Hopefuly, Restaurant owners would then pay the better performers more money, though the unions (e.g. Mandate) would probably disagree with the inequity of lazy people being paid less.

Why do we tip waiting staff, and not other service staff?

What are service staff?