This was heart-breakingly funny from an FF perspective and just heart breaking from an FG perspective.

Kenny has done a good job and a heave would be divisive.

However, if people are right that Kenny is un-electable as Taoiseach, then isn't now or after the local elections the time for a heave rather than any later?

I saw it but wasn't watching it

Could there be a bit of a heave on in FG then? That poster Apparatchik on p.ie sounds like he's leading a posse.

Enda unelectable as Taoiseach though? On Tubridy tonight before the election last year a facial-expression specialist analysed him as having a hitman (?) style demeanour - was Kenny really put there to counter Ahern's common touch? If so he is now defunct and the sooner the better for FG.

But who to replace him with?

It's a dreadful pity that Ivan Yeats left politics and FG - I think he would have made an excellent leader. Had he remained and led the party into the last GE, I think FG would be in power now.

Auditor #9 wrote:

I saw it but wasn't watching it

Could there be a bit of a heave on in FG then? That poster Apparatchik on p.ie sounds like he's leading a posse.

Enda unelectable as Taoiseach though? On Tubridy tonight before the election last year a facial-expression specialist analysed him as having a hitman (?) style demeanour - was Kenny really put there to counter Ahern's common touch? If so he is now defunct and the sooner the better for FG.

If I try and think of what Kenny stands for politically (leaving aside normal assumptions about the social composition of the FG party) I have absolutely no idea. He listens to the Press too much, and consequently is always mistiming things even on the occasions when he gets them right.

He would have been a good party organiser/membership secretary, but it is hard to envisage him in a real political role. The last time he came up against Cowen, Cowen in my view performed poorly, but that didn't stop Kenny from rolling over and virtually nodding assent to Cowen's clumsy attack.

Is it just a case that Kenny reflects the situation of FG, which is and always was a party of strong farmers, and agriculture at present is an also ran aspect of human society in the west?

I think Richard Bruton is the only possible replacement. I have a nasty feeling in my gut that one of those brash new toddlers are going to get the job and then it's all over for democracy. Give FG their dues, they're a good opposition. But his new shower make Cowen look urbane and considerate.

Was Ivan Yeats related to the famous poet?

905 wrote:

I think Richard Bruton is the only possible replacement. I have a nasty feeling in my gut that one of those brash new toddlers are going to get the job and then it's all over for democracy. Give FG their dues, they're a good opposition. But his new shower make Cowen look urbane and considerate.

Was Ivan Yeats related to the famous poet?

Where are these new boys coming from: the banking sector? hardware stores?
tell me more about YFG.

There is no "heave" folks - sorry to disappoint you all.

There is absolutely no appetite within the party as a whole for this and, to be honest, most of us dont see the need either.

Without question there is always a small faction within the party who will be against the current leadership - happens in all political parties -tho we (FG) do seem to have specialised in it in recent decades when it comes to blood on the floor.

There is widespread agreement within the party now that the reason we didn't quite make it at the last election was quite simply that our vision and our ideas and policies weren't quite up to scratch - period - and we are starting out on the process of recitifying this and it will be a long drawn out process as everything is on the table to be debated - Apart from the daily duties of holding the goverment to account for their actions - we are going to be out in the long grass for a while.

Politics being politics and Fine Gael being Fine Gael - of course Im not surprised that some idiot stuck his head over the paraphet and called for Enda's head - we have an amazing amount of very intelligent people in the party but we also have a significant amount of total me-feiners who simply do not stop and think before shooting their heads off as to the wider significance of their actions. Even in DSE ,my cons. - there is a certain cabal who are constantly scheming and back biting and bitching about the current setup - at a consistuency level and above - I tend to have my UN helmet on , but I do find that they are the last people who will come out to canvass, leaflet and support the party - yet they have all the answers. I don't pretend to have completely 100% unquestioning loyalty - but I go with the majority viewpoint and try and influence things in an open forum - I back ideas not personalities.

There is nothing in this - just some poor little bitter fecker that has either panicked after a week of the nonstop Bertie Memorial gig or is under the illusion that this consitutes a good opportunity for some mischief making - This will pass as Cowen honeymoon period will pass. At the moment the party is gearing up fully for the Lisbon referendum and there is simply no bloodlust in the party anymore for regicide on the level seen before - Enda is personally very popular within the party - He is at every event and is a very approachable and likeable guy - he is also massively respected for doing the long hard slog of recusitating the grassroots after 2002 and regaining the parties self respect in the eyes of the public and its members - If he goes - he will go on his own terms - there will be no coup.

BTW as much time as I have for Ivan Yeats -who I have met personally and have enjoyed his company and intelligence on a few occasions - one should not forget that Ivan was one of the biggest troublemakers and schemers in the party during his day and was behind both in a primary and secondary role the decapitations of Alan Dukes and John Bruton - as popular as he currently is in his media role -his role in the shenangians of the last decade and his decision to walk away in the hour of need is not forgotten within party circles.

cactus flower wrote:

905 wrote:

I think Richard Bruton is the only possible replacement. I have a nasty feeling in my gut that one of those brash new toddlers are going to get the job and then it's all over for democracy. Give FG their dues, they're a good opposition. But his new shower make Cowen look urbane and considerate.

Was Ivan Yeats related to the famous poet?

Where are these new boys coming from: the banking sector? hardware stores?
tell me more about YFG.

Just go to P.ie and that all you need to know about YFG

Kate P wrote:

But who to replace him with?

It's a dreadful pity that Ivan Yeats left politics and FG - I think he would have made an excellent leader. Had he remained and led the party into the last GE, I think FG would be in power now.

Yates definitely had Taoiseach potential. I think he might have taken them over the line but the weakness was more in the FG front bench than in the leadership. He would certainly be better now. I expect that if he could turn back the clock he might have stuck it out so he could be poised now to benefit from the new FG strength that Enda has created.

Edo wrote:

There is no "heave" folks - sorry to disappoint you all.

There is absolutely no appetite within the party as a whole for this and, to be honest, most of us dont see the need either.

Without question there is always a small faction within the party who will be against the current leadership - happens in all political parties -tho we (FG) do seem to have specialised in it in recent decades when it comes to blood on the floor.

There is widespread agreement within the party now that the reason we didn't quite make it at the last election was quite simply that our vision and our ideas and policies weren't quite up to scratch - period - and we are starting out on the process of recitifying this and it will be a long drawn out process as everything is on the table to be debated - Apart from the daily duties of holding the goverment to account for their actions - we are going to be out in the long grass for a while.

Politics being politics and Fine Gael being Fine Gael - of course Im not surprised that some idiot stuck his head over the paraphet and called for Enda's head - we have an amazing amount of very intelligent people in the party but we also have a significant amount of total me-feiners who simply do not stop and think before shooting their heads off as to the wider significance of their actions. Even in DSE ,my cons. - there is a certain cabal who are constantly scheming and back biting and bitching about the current setup - at a consistuency level and above - I tend to have my UN helmet on , but I do find that they are the last people who will come out to canvass, leaflet and support the party - yet they have all the answers. I don't pretend to have completely 100% unquestioning loyalty - but I go with the majority viewpoint and try and influence things in an open forum - I back ideas not personalities.

There is nothing in this - just some poor little bitter fecker that has either panicked after a week of the nonstop Bertie Memorial gig or is under the illusion that this consitutes a good opportunity for some mischief making - This will pass as Cowen honeymoon period will pass. At the moment the party is gearing up fully for the Lisbon referendum and there is simply no bloodlust in the party anymore for regicide on the level seen before - Enda is personally very popular within the party - He is at every event and is a very approachable and likeable guy - he is also massively respected for doing the long hard slog of recusitating the grassroots after 2002 and regaining the parties self respect in the eyes of the public and its members - If he goes - he will go on his own terms - there will be no coup.

BTW as much time as I have for Ivan Yeats -who I have met personally and have enjoyed his company and intelligence on a few occasions - one should not forget that Ivan was one of the biggest troublemakers and schemers in the party during his day and was behind both in a primary and secondary role the decapitations of Alan Dukes and John Bruton - as popular as he currently is in his media role -his role in the shenangians of the last decade and his decision to walk away in the hour of need is not forgotten within party circles.

You are correct Edo. The only heave is in the heads of some fantasists. In reality the only reason that individual (he isn't a real councillor BTW. He is what used to be known as a town commissioner) is throwing shapes is because he is annoyed that FG accepted in a FF councillor who defected in his area. His AGM is on tonight and he'll be lucky the local organisation haven't left his backside black and blue with all the kicks they wanted to launch at him. Fine Gael politicians practically had to intervene to stop the local activists forming a lynch mob and hunting him down after his Q&A stunt. His local activists were fuming with him.

Good to see the sensible people in FG are all four-square behind Enda. I think that the elections aren't as presidential as people think even if the debate went against Enda last time. If FG perform coherently and well in opposition then I think they have every chance of being in Government after the next election. In the meantime, the coherent opposition will hopefull lead to better concentration and performance by the incumbents.

BTW Edo, did you say previously say you were canvassing for Lucinda. FF person in my house said she was seriousy considering voting for LC because canvassers were so good. I was sorry I had missed them.

edit

Double Agent Sean Brown quits FG with honest assesment “I just think he [Brian Cowen] is going to unleash it on Fine Gael. I don’t think he [Enda Kenny] is a match for Cowen,” . You couldn't wite this stuff. See breakingnews.ie.

cactus flower wrote:

notdevsson wrote:

Edo wrote:

There is no "heave" folks - sorry to disappoint you all.

There is absolutely no appetite within the party as a whole for this and, to be honest, most of us dont see the need either.

Without question there is always a small faction within the party who will be against the current leadership - happens in all political parties -tho we (FG) do seem to have specialised in it in recent decades when it comes to blood on the floor.

Your very welcome, Notdevsson: hope you got your tea and a little something at the signing in thread.

There is widespread agreement within the party now that the reason we didn't quite make it at the last election was quite simply that our vision and our ideas and policies weren't quite up to scratch - period - and we are starting out on the process of recitifying this and it will be a long drawn out process as everything is on the table to be debated - Apart from the daily duties of holding the goverment to account for their actions - we are going to be out in the long grass for a while.

Politics being politics and Fine Gael being Fine Gael - of course Im not surprised that some idiot stuck his head over the paraphet and called for Enda's head - we have an amazing amount of very intelligent people in the party but we also have a significant amount of total me-feiners who simply do not stop and think before shooting their heads off as to the wider significance of their actions. Even in DSE ,my cons. - there is a certain cabal who are constantly scheming and back biting and bitching about the current setup - at a consistuency level and above - I tend to have my UN helmet on , but I do find that they are the last people who will come out to canvass, leaflet and support the party - yet they have all the answers. I don't pretend to have completely 100% unquestioning loyalty - but I go with the majority viewpoint and try and influence things in an open forum - I back ideas not personalities.

There is nothing in this - just some poor little bitter fecker that has either panicked after a week of the nonstop Bertie Memorial gig or is under the illusion that this consitutes a good opportunity for some mischief making - This will pass as Cowen honeymoon period will pass. At the moment the party is gearing up fully for the Lisbon referendum and there is simply no bloodlust in the party anymore for regicide on the level seen before - Enda is personally very popular within the party - He is at every event and is a very approachable and likeable guy - he is also massively respected for doing the long hard slog of recusitating the grassroots after 2002 and regaining the parties self respect in the eyes of the public and its members - If he goes - he will go on his own terms - there will be no coup.

BTW as much time as I have for Ivan Yeats -who I have met personally and have enjoyed his company and intelligence on a few occasions - one should not forget that Ivan was one of the biggest troublemakers and schemers in the party during his day and was behind both in a primary and secondary role the decapitations of Alan Dukes and John Bruton - as popular as he currently is in his media role -his role in the shenangians of the last decade and his decision to walk away in the hour of need is not forgotten within party circles.

You are correct Edo. The only heave is in the heads of some fantasists. In reality the only reason that individual (he isn't a real councillor BTW. He is what used to be known as a town commissioner) is throwing shapes is because he is annoyed that FG accepted in a FF councillor who defected in his area. His AGM is on tonight and he'll be lucky the local organisation haven't left his backside black and blue with all the kicks they wanted to launch at him. Fine Gael politicians practically had to intervene to stop the local activists forming a lynch mob and hunting him down after his Q&A stunt. His local activists were fuming with him.

?

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

Double Agent Sean Brown quits FG with honest assesment “I just think he [Brian Cowen] is going to unleash it on Fine Gael. I don’t think he [Enda Kenny] is a match for Cowen,” . You couldn't wite this stuff. See breakingnews.ie.

Ah well- thats the end of that - short and sweet - there'll no tears over that - he would have made his point far more effectively by just leaving and letting those in the know his reasons for departing. He overreached and has made a bit of a fool of himself IMO - but hey he's obviously decided to take his 15 minutes of fame now. I guess he knew what he was doing before he crossed the Rubicon on Q&A.
Yet another keating who's ego and personal schedule were running just too fast for the rest of us - it happens - witness the departure of several FG councillors since the last election for "personal and family reasons" - welcome to politics.


Credit NDS - you were spot on.

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

Good to see the sensible people in FG are all four-square behind Enda. I think that the elections aren't as presidential as people think even if the debate went against Enda last time. If FG perform coherently and well in opposition then I think they have every chance of being in Government after the next election. In the meantime, the coherent opposition will hopefull lead to better concentration and performance by the incumbents.

BTW Edo, did you say previously say you were canvassing for Lucinda. FF person in my house said she was seriousy considering voting for LC because canvassers were so good. I was sorry I had missed them.

Yep - thanks for the compliments - I'll pass them on - but we want your votes

We were very motivated to win back a seat in 07 alright - given the fact that Lucinda was the outsider going up against 3 heavyweights and the Ryan Machine - we had to pull out all the stops - It was a well organised campaign and even tho I would be far more liberal than Lucinda - she was a bloody good candidate and worked extremely hard and thats half the battle there - I was out every night and a couple of times at the weekends and I would say we had an average of 30-40 canvassers out every night in various parts of the consitutency - it was a good mix of the veterans and the enthusiatic youngsters and everybody got along surprisingly well - It was my first Irish Campaign - but I did work on Dianne Feinsteins senate campaign and Democrat state election campaigns in California in the late 90s when I lived there for a bit so I knew a bit - but you can never underestimate how "local" elections in Ireland are and in DSE how important it is that you know your stuff on the doorstep -it is probably the most volatile constituency in the country and very few votes are guaranteed - you will be grilled on your manifesto and a multitude of issues-still I think we had a good campaign and lots of lessons and experience were picked up that should serve us well in the future, particularly for the younger members who have learned how important it is to listen and to be totally aware of your party's particular position on everything - it isnt just a matter of turning on the doorstep,saying "howya" thrusting a leaflet into their hands and legging it before they can ask you a question.

I may as well lay it on the line here.

I appreciate that the FG posters think that Enda is wonderful because he resurrected the party and that's fair.

But if I was looking to an alternative government and thought that EK was going to head it, I'd nearly emigrate. And I know that I'm not the only one. He's singularly ineffective and I find it hard to take him seriously because he treats every single issue with the same level of indignation and ire. Whatever about his politics, I find him a very conservative thinker and a disappointing orator. His presentation on Lisbon at NUIG not too long ago was appalling. He said virtually nothing and only contributed twice to the discussion afterwards - and only when he was forced to.

He's a very nice man, I'm sure and a great colleague but from the outside he is singularly unimpressive - even to those of us who are (and were in '07) open to being impressed.