Enda Kenny - how he likes his toast and why the way he takes his tea is bad for the country and a reason he 
should resign

United Ireland. - Subgroup - Most NI politics.

um... that's it for now.

Hmm...ditto. Also, the "political" aspects of the Tribunals. If they don't lead to reform of the planning process I don't care about them at all. Party politics overall, really.

I have no doubt that they will make bugger all difference, at least in relation to their cost.

cookiemonster wrote:

I have no doubt that they will make bugger all difference, at least in relation to their cost.

I know - and people were going on and on about them....hang on a second....just checking something...

...funny the way all the Tribunal threads have disappeared off the recent list on p.ie. I mean, they managed to persist through the libel scare, but they've gone since Bertie fell on his sword.

Could it be that people are not really interested in the Tribunal, or the planning process itself? We wonders, precious, yes we does, even though everyone said it was about ethics, it was about the corruption of the planning process, it wasn't about a Bertie-hunt, oh no.

ibis wrote:

cookiemonster wrote:

I have no doubt that they will make bugger all difference, at least in relation to their cost.

I know - and people were going on and on about them....hang on a second....just checking something...

...funny the way all the Tribunal threads have disappeared off the recent list on p.ie. I mean, they managed to persist through the libel scare, but they've gone since Bertie fell on his sword.

Could it be that people are not really interested in the Tribunal, or the planning process itself? We wonders, precious, yes we does, even though everyone said it was about ethics, it was about the corruption of the planning process, it wasn't about a Bertie-hunt, oh no.

Don't get me wrong I'm delighted they forced Bertie to fall on his sword, but I can't sat it's anything to do with the tribunal itself. I just never liked Bertie it was a bonus if you will. But only a bonus if the Tribunal actually achieves it's aims rather than just costing a lot of money with no return. Bertie being ousted isn't worth what they've cost thus far.

But with regard to the popularity on p.ie you are correct, it was just bertie based interest. I'd suggest half the people think the tribunal's main aim was investigating Bertie and didn't know it had anything to do with planning and payments.

Yes, I think it's that which irritates me. I was interested in the Tribunals when they started, because I'm interested in planning, but the Bertie-bashing was very off-putting.

ibis wrote:

Yes, I think it's that which irritates me. I was interested in the Tribunals when they started, because I'm interested in planning, but the Bertie-bashing was very off-putting.

The Tribunals have been going on for so very, very long. The culture has changed since they started. Some TDs weren't even born then were they?

Not even the bashing (which secretly I did enjoy) but the total Bertie focus. I suppose it was just sexy news and thus got more attention.

cookiemonster wrote:

Not even the bashing (which secretly I did enjoy) but the total Bertie focus. I suppose it was just sexy news and thus got more attention.

Hmm...no, I don't think that really covers it. There was an absolutely relentless focus, and it's now siimply been switched off. Could have been an FG campaign, of course.

I think you're right about there being a campaign after FF, the Greens and Bertie. Now, I started out savouring the money figures and dollar inconsistencies in some sort of fetishistic, detective way as well as with the (false) sensation that this would be the final rooting out of corruption in the planning process as well as heralding a change...
and like cookiemonster I have little time for Bertie among others in FF but the relentlessness and repetition of that crap on p.ie turned me off FG - now I have similar doubts about FG because of that ! Now I'm going to search for tonys quotes which characterise pfkf1 perfectly and reflect the true dark side of a witch hunt ...

Have to say the Greens kept their composure well enough throughout and did well to have diverging opinions between Boyle+O'Brolchain on the one hand and the official line on the other... well done to them and to give Labour and SF their due too. But I think FG damaged themselves there.

I have no interest in NI politics either - I'd rather talk to DaveM about the volume of water running through Dublin every week..

Actually the reason nobody is discussing the tribunals over at P.ie is because you cant.

the tribunal forum is closed and its the law of omerta on the whole damn thing under the DGDS rule until Dave sorts out the legalities after that lawyers letter.

Not that I have contributed to that forum for over 6 months - still thats the reason why.

Edo was there a bit of excess on the part of FG do you think during the Bertie threads? Now and again I stuck my post in half warning them to pull the dogs back - in the end the lads who maintained waiting for the Tribunal to do it's job were justified I think - it didn't take a decision but the job was done during the course of the Tribunal anyway

Edo wrote:

Actually the reason nobody is discussing the tribunals over at P.ie is because you cant.

the tribunal forum is closed and its the law of omerta on the whole damn thing under the DGDS rule until Dave sorts out the legalities after that lawyers letter.

Not that I have contributed to that forum for over 6 months - still thats the reason why.

Unfortunately for that particular theory, there were Tribunal threads running again the same day (and threads asking whether it was OK to discuss the Tribunal)...and it was clear from the second letter that the solicitors did not ask for the tribunal threads to be shut down.

Auditor #9 wrote:

Edo was there a bit of excess on the part of FG do you think during the Bertie threads? Now and again I stuck my post in half warning them to pull the dogs back - in the end the lads who maintained waiting for the Tribunal to do it's job were justified I think - it didn't take a decision but the job was done during the course of the Tribunal anyway

Thats a fair point Auditor - but you have to remember that over 60% of the postership on P.ie are under the age of 22 and in college. There are actually very few FG posters on P.ie - I personally know at least 70% of them and we have a bit of laugh about it on the few occasions we all meet up - but there are tons of YFGers on P.ie and like all yoof politicos most of the them are a bunch of self centred,self righteous head wreckers ,like we all were at that age ,says Edo from his perch in his mid thirties! - good thing there was no internet when I was in UCD - actually I wouldn't have been that bad - I joined the communist party purely for the nightlife (seriously good looking women!) - politics would have been restricted to many drinkies in the UCD Students club with Maurice Manning - Maurice trying to convince us to join FG - we trying to convince Maurice that it was definitely time to get his head tested! (it was 1989-92 - FG lowest point prior to 2002) - Good times .

But yeah I agree with ya - the whole fecking thing became a juvenile slagging match and I turned off back in the Autumn sometime as the more serious and thoughtful posters left it alone too.

Im quite happy to wait for the Tribunal to do its job - but Im concerned that nobody tries to stop it finishing the job its begun.

I thought the Tribunal sparring between the main posters was of very high quality and at times over-generous on the part of certain posters tonys and ZhouEnlai mainly - toxic, droghedasouth stanley and others produced some very high quality posts. Classic threads.

Green bashing is another one, I'm not terribly happy with how they turned out in government, but their supporters seem to be and their support seems to be growing so they're looking after the right people I guess.
Ligitimate criticisim is fine but hopping all over everything/anyhing they do is as boring as the FG stuff.

Any farming issues only half grab my attention too. Maybe there aren't any farming issues ...

Auditor #9 wrote:

Any farming issues only half grab my attention too. Maybe there aren't any farming issues ...

There are ALWAYS farming issues. That said the IFA seem for the most part to be reasonable ans responsible, what what I've experienced of them anyway. But their canteen is f*****g awful.

ibis wrote:

Edo wrote:

Actually the reason nobody is discussing the tribunals over at P.ie is because you cant.

the tribunal forum is closed and its the law of omerta on the whole damn thing under the DGDS rule until Dave sorts out the legalities after that lawyers letter.

Not that I have contributed to that forum for over 6 months - still thats the reason why.

Unfortunately for that particular theory, there were Tribunal threads running again the same day (and threads asking whether it was OK to discuss the Tribunal)...and it was clear from the second letter that the solicitors did not ask for the tribunal threads to be shut down.

So why is it closed?

Perhaps Dave had a really nasty shock and is feeling scared.

Edo wrote:

ibis wrote:

Edo wrote:

Actually the reason nobody is discussing the tribunals over at P.ie is because you cant.

the tribunal forum is closed and its the law of omerta on the whole damn thing under the DGDS rule until Dave sorts out the legalities after that lawyers letter.

Not that I have contributed to that forum for over 6 months - still thats the reason why.

Unfortunately for that particular theory, there were Tribunal threads running again the same day (and threads asking whether it was OK to discuss the Tribunal)...and it was clear from the second letter that the solicitors did not ask for the tribunal threads to be shut down.

So why is it closed?

That I don't know - cactus flower's explanation is as good as any (partly because I think Dave actually did interpret it as a gagging order from FF). I do know that the tribunal threads got back into swing fairly quickly from what I could see - but of course as pointed out, I didn't really pay them much attention anyway, so I may have been confusing proper Tribunal threads with general Bertie-bashing threads.

I notice there's now a P.Flynn thread.

cookiemonster wrote:

Green bashing is another one, I'm not terribly happy with how they
turned out in government, but their supporters seem to be and their
support seems to be growing so they're looking after the right people I
guess.
Ligitimate criticisim is fine but hopping all over everything/anyhing they do is as boring as the FG stuff.

It certainly became pretty much impossible to discuss anything the Greens were doing without the same set of posters showing up to chant ritual abuse. Again, I'll be interested in seeing whether that continues.

Not sure whether one can point a finger specifically, but I'd go along with what Edo says - a lot of it seems to have been YFG. The Enda Kenny stuff seems pulled from the same sort of bag - could well be OFF having a go. Worthless partisan shite of the first water.

Funnily enough, one of the nicer things about politics.ie was the way it wasn't like Irish politics!

Rendition flights through Shannon. I don't care about that. I know Michael D. does, but I don't.

And Vintners troubles with declining pub attendance, I care not. Is that political ?

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Rendition flights through Shannon. I don't care about that. I know Michael D. does, but I don't.

And Vintners troubles with declining pub attendance, I care not. Is that political ?

I didn't really care either about Shannon even though I live near there but I've grown to appreciate the debate online thanks in good measure to Helium Three & Co. over on p.ie. I think we are partially morally responsible if dirty stuff is happening and we are facilitating it. Have to say I never cared about Tara either when I joined p.ie and Insider2007 convinced me or impressed me enough to be interested in it. I signed on originally to bang on about Corrib Gas and how we are getting taken from behind. My mind has changed on that one too and now I am less interested in it than I was - ibis was in a small way responsible for that..

I have to admit I do care about the rendition flights. The idea of people being kidnapped, and taken to be tortured in secret facilities is appalling in any day and age. It's obscene that anyone should claim necessity, because the simple scientific truth of the matter is that there is no evidence that torture works.

I disliked the Berite-bashing a lot, but I disliked the blind belief of Bertie statements by certain posters more.

I generally dislike party politics, though.