Defence Forces do not want to be used to break strikes

Wondered how long it would take for this idea to rear its ugly head - if the government resort to beating up and shoving around a protesting public, the situation will implode:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0205/1233787117373.html

Quote :

“It will be morally wrong for soldiers to be ordered to break strikes arising from the imposition of the pensions levy,” Mr Rooney said.

Mr O’Dea described as a “hypothetical situation” the suggestion that soldiers would be used to break strikes. He said he did not comment on such situations.
However, in reply to a written Dáil question yesterday related to the issue, Mr O’Dea said: “As has been done in the past, the Defence Forces may be called on to contribute to maintaining vital services in times of industrial action.”
Mr Rooney said soldiers supported the opposition to the pension levy being expressed across the public sector.
The pension levy was unfair and bitterly disappointing for soldiers, sailors and aircrew of the Defence Forces.“These personnel, many of whom have given long and dedicated service both at home and overseas, are now being unfairly used to address mistakes made in the management of the national economy in which they had no role,” Mr Rooney said.

Thank God for that, at least.

Sorry, how likely are public service strikes now? I'd imagine the army wouldn't be of much use breaking most strikes I could imagine apart from bin collection.

Aragon is talking about soldiers smashing skulls, not emptying rubbish bins. You need to take part in a few riots.

A strike is not a riot

A kick in the goulees is not a homocide

Aragon wrote:

Wondered how long it would take for this idea to rear its ugly head - if the government resort to beating up and shoving around a protesting public, the situation will implode:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0205/1233787117373.html

Quote :

“It will be morally wrong for soldiers to be ordered to break strikes arising from the imposition of the pensions levy,” Mr Rooney said.

Mr O’Dea described as a “hypothetical situation” the suggestion that soldiers would be used to break strikes. He said he did not comment on such situations.
However, in reply to a written Dáil question yesterday related to the issue, Mr O’Dea said: “As has been done in the past, the Defence Forces may be called on to contribute to maintaining vital services in times of industrial action.”
Mr Rooney said soldiers supported the opposition to the pension levy being expressed across the public sector.
The pension levy was unfair and bitterly disappointing for soldiers, sailors and aircrew of the Defence Forces.“These personnel, many of whom have given long and dedicated service both at home and overseas, are now being unfairly used to address mistakes made in the management of the national economy in which they had no role,” Mr Rooney said.

Thank God for that, at least.

In the 1970s the army ran trucks to pick up people stranded during a bus strike. I was one of those who spent a couple of days being transported by soldiers in army trucks around the north side.

Papal_knight Two wrote:

Aragon wrote:

Wondered how long it would take for this idea to rear its ugly head - if the government resort to beating up and shoving around a protesting public, the situation will implode:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0205/1233787117373.html

Quote :

“It will be morally wrong for soldiers to be ordered to break strikes arising from the imposition of the pensions levy,” Mr Rooney said.

Mr O’Dea described as a “hypothetical situation” the suggestion that soldiers would be used to break strikes. He said he did not comment on such situations.
However, in reply to a written Dáil question yesterday related to the issue, Mr O’Dea said: “As has been done in the past, the Defence Forces may be called on to contribute to maintaining vital services in times of industrial action.”
Mr Rooney said soldiers supported the opposition to the pension levy being expressed across the public sector.
The pension levy was unfair and bitterly disappointing for soldiers, sailors and aircrew of the Defence Forces.“These personnel, many of whom have given long and dedicated service both at home and overseas, are now being unfairly used to address mistakes made in the management of the national economy in which they had no role,” Mr Rooney said.

Thank God for that, at least.

In the 1970s the army ran trucks to pick up people stranded during a bus strike. I was one of those who spent a couple of days being transported by soldiers in army trucks around the north side.

I wouldn't boast about that out loud anywhere in public right at the moment, Pontiff.

youngdan wrote:

Aragon is talking about soldiers smashing skulls, not emptying rubbish bins. You need to take part in a few riots.

That will never happen and if aragon is talking about it fair enough, but that is not what anyone in the articles (s)he linked to means by strike breaking.

I've never taken part in any riots true, walked out of a nightclub into one in salthill once though.

I made a quick exit, stage left.

The soldiers are getting levied too, and they weren't represented at the talks, not being allowed to join a union.

Plus a lot of barracks are being closed:very disruptive for families.

To be fair they get disruption money - I sneak onto the military forum on boards.ie every now and again for a sneak around, I find all that stuff fascinating. They were all talking about it in fairly rational terms. They thing is, army bases in Ireland are very small by international standards. Fort Bragg in the US for example hold more personell than the entire Irish defence forces, I reckon Aldershot in the UK could be similar. Its a legacy of the British Army - they scattered smallish garrisons around the country so they could be on hand to quell any trouble. By rights they should have been concentrated on two or three posts.

Anyway, most Army personell know this and from what I can see, reckoned that this was enevitable, and that further consolidation is likely. A pisser, but an expected one for them. I hope the government puts the land to good use.

Libertas registered that they would fund strike breaking Irish Times Libertas

use Cookie and the P.ie gang?

Aragon wrote:

Wondered how long it would take for this idea to rear its ugly head - if the government resort to beating up and shoving around a protesting public, the situation will implode:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0205/1233787117373.html

Quote :

“It will be morally wrong for soldiers to be ordered to break strikes arising from the imposition of the pensions levy,” Mr Rooney said.

Mr O’Dea described as a “hypothetical situation” the suggestion that soldiers would be used to break strikes. He said he did not comment on such situations.
However, in reply to a written Dáil question yesterday related to the issue, Mr O’Dea said: “As has been done in the past, the Defence Forces may be called on to contribute to maintaining vital services in times of industrial action.”
Mr Rooney said soldiers supported the opposition to the pension levy being expressed across the public sector.
The pension levy was unfair and bitterly disappointing for soldiers, sailors and aircrew of the Defence Forces.“These personnel, many of whom have given long and dedicated service both at home and overseas, are now being unfairly used to address mistakes made in the management of the national economy in which they had no role,” Mr Rooney said.

Thank God for that, at least.

I assume when they say “As has been done in the past, the Defence Forces may be called on to contribute to maintaining vital services in times of industrial action.” he's talking about Fire services and transport.
I can't see soldiers sitting behind a desk at the unemployment office or standing behind it with their weapon pointed at some civil servant.

"Wondered how long it would take for this idea to rear its ugly head - if the government resort to beating up and shoving around a protesting public, the situation will implode"

These are Aragon's words in their entirety in the opening post. Any sane reader knows that beating up and shoving does not mean collecting garbage. It means bursting skulls. The less than sane come on the thread and as usual does not bother to read Aragon's words but prattles on about the army being the friendly bus drivers. This poster shall remain unnamed to save embarrassment for all involved.

youngdan wrote:

"Wondered how long it would take for this idea to rear its ugly head - if the government resort to beating up and shoving around a protesting public, the situation will implode"

These are Aragon's words in their entirety in the opening post. Any sane reader knows that beating up and shoving does not mean collecting garbage. It means bursting skulls. The less than sane come on the thread and as usual does not bother to read Aragon's words but prattles on about the army being the friendly bus drivers. This poster shall remain unnamed to save embarrassment for all involved.

Its an eonormous IF. Such an enormous IF that people disregarded it. Anyone who reckons the army is going to be put on the streets cracking strikers heads is a fool. Anyone who reckoned that the mention of strike breaking by Mr O'Dea or Mr Rooney is a likewise a fool. I guess noone mentioned this to you to avoid undue embarassment...

youngdan wrote:

"Wondered how long it would take for this idea to rear its ugly head - if the government resort to beating up and shoving around a protesting public, the situation will implode"

These are Aragon's words in their entirety in the opening post. Any sane reader knows that beating up and shoving does not mean collecting garbage. It means bursting skulls. The less than sane come on the thread and as usual does not bother to read Aragon's words but prattles on about the army being the friendly bus drivers. This poster shall remain unnamed to save embarrassment for all involved.

Why would anyone pay attention to Aragon's words, she got completely the wrong end of the stick. Our army has never been used to attack striking workers, they have been used to keep services going or provide alternative services when necessary, that's what PDFora were talking about, not cracking skulls.

shutuplaura wrote:

To be fair they get disruption money - I sneak onto the military forum on boards.ie every now and again for a sneak around, I find all that stuff fascinating. They were all talking about it in fairly rational terms. They thing is, army bases in Ireland are very small by international standards. Fort Bragg in the US for example hold more personell than the entire Irish defence forces, I reckon Aldershot in the UK could be similar. Its a legacy of the British Army - they scattered smallish garrisons around the country so they could be on hand to quell any trouble. By rights they should have been concentrated on two or three posts.

Anyway, most Army personell know this and from what I can see, reckoned that this was enevitable, and that further consolidation is likely. A pisser, but an expected one for them. I hope the government puts the land to good use.

They've mistimed it very, very badly.

That is undeniable.

shutuplaura wrote:

youngdan wrote:

"Wondered how long it would take for this idea to rear its ugly head - if the government resort to beating up and shoving around a protesting public, the situation will implode"

These are Aragon's words in their entirety in the opening post. Any sane reader knows that beating up and shoving does not mean collecting garbage. It means bursting skulls. The less than sane come on the thread and as usual does not bother to read Aragon's words but prattles on about the army being the friendly bus drivers. This poster shall remain unnamed to save embarrassment for all involved.

Its an eonormous IF. Such an enormous IF that people disregarded it. Anyone who reckons the army is going to be put on the streets cracking strikers heads is a fool. Anyone who reckoned that the mention of strike breaking by Mr O'Dea or Mr Rooney is a likewise a fool. I guess noone mentioned this to you to avoid undue embarassment...

Aragon said it. I have checked in the mirror and I am still Youngdan.

This is Massachusetts so when I wake up in the morning to scratch my plums I might be Aragon but in the meantime I will note you discount her concerns and call her a fool.

youngdan wrote:

shutuplaura wrote:

youngdan wrote:

"Wondered how long it would take for this idea to rear its ugly head - if the government resort to beating up and shoving around a protesting public, the situation will implode"

These are Aragon's words in their entirety in the opening post. Any sane reader knows that beating up and shoving does not mean collecting garbage. It means bursting skulls. The less than sane come on the thread and as usual does not bother to read Aragon's words but prattles on about the army being the friendly bus drivers. This poster shall remain unnamed to save embarrassment for all involved.

Its an eonormous IF. Such an enormous IF that people disregarded it. Anyone who reckons the army is going to be put on the streets cracking strikers heads is a fool. Anyone who reckoned that the mention of strike breaking by Mr O'Dea or Mr Rooney is a likewise a fool. I guess noone mentioned this to you to avoid undue embarassment...

Aragon said it. I have checked in the mirror and I am still Youngdan.

This is Massachusetts so when I wake up in the morning to scratch my plums I might be Aragon but in the meantime I will note you discount her concerns and call her a fool.

You are like a cut cat these days old boy. What has gotten into you, I once enjoyed your posts.

Aragon wrote what she wrote, and yes, it was a foolish point. You tried to drag it all back to this point twice, effectively re-iterating that point twice (and got bitchy with people too I might add). If you cannot see that then you are being naive. Furthermore it seems to me that people were being polite until you showed up, and for trying to redirect the thread twice you are being doubly foolish.

I'll apologise to Aragon because I suppose the first thing someone might think when they hear the words strike breaking is of nightsticks cracking heads. I hope there will be no hard feelings from her about this. As for you Dan, well, you said yourself once that you are a bully and like a bully you are, pushy and cowardly.

When did I say I was a bully?

Aragon started the thread. Her concern is about breaking skulls. It is the opening poster who decides what the topic is. When she says beating up she means beating up. How anyone can think it means anything else is bizarre

Other posters not I, have derailed the thread away from the origonal concern. They want to discuss soldiers acting as scabs and driving Papal Kmight arround North Dublin.

He of course delights in the fact that he himself acted the scab and Aragon returns and scolds him for it. Papal being who he is, does not even realise he is being scolded and the thread continues

The thread developed along different lines to those expected by the op because she was mistaken. You tried to bring the discussion back to aragons point unnecessarily.

I don't know what problem you have with other posters here but I'd respectfully suggest lightening up. If internet interaction is agrivating you that much perhaps you need a break.

And Papal Knight, I wouldn't consider your actions crossing a picket and I have the son of a union mans hatred of scabs. Dublin is a bastard of the place when the buses stop running. Papal would also have been young at the time and presumable using the bus with this elders.

About being a bully, I tried the search function and couldn't find that remark. I'll assume I was mistaken and apologise for that remark. Looking back over your posts while looking for it though, I did see plenty of attacks on other posters. Fundamentally this is only a chatsite and you can behave how you see fit but I reckon you could lighten up a bit, like I said you were an enjoyable poster, now you are like ahab chasing a whale - I won't say who the whale is.

I have attacked numerous posters but only after they have attacked me.

But I hear ya, I will lay off both Ibis and FF to see if harmony can once again be restored.

shutuplaura wrote:

The thread developed along different lines to those expected by the op because she was mistaken. You tried to bring the discussion back to aragons point unnecessarily.

I don't know what problem you have with other posters here but I'd respectfully suggest lightening up. If internet interaction is agrivating you that much perhaps you need a break.

And Papal Knight, I wouldn't consider your actions crossing a picket and I have the son of a union mans hatred of scabs. Dublin is a bastard of the place when the buses stop running. Papal would also have been young at the time and presumable using the bus with this elders.

About being a bully, I tried the search function and couldn't find that remark. I'll assume I was mistaken and apologise for that remark. Looking back over your posts while looking for it though.

There was no issue about passing pickets. There were no pickets except at the garages and no buses. There was a bus strike. Army trucks were put on the road. Hundreds of thousands of people used them. The buses were not used - if they had been driven out of the garages and driven by scab drivers I would have refused to get on them (even as a 10 year old). My uncle was one of those on strike. Back then most travel in Dublin was by bus. Without the buses people had no alternative but to use the army trucks. The strikers even used them to get to the garage for picketing duty.

I have only ever crossed a picket once. In the job I was doing I was processing very urgent cases that had to be dealt with. (One concerned urgent financial assistance needed for a woman who was battling cancer, whose heating system at home had broken down and needed urgent financial aid to get it fixed.) I explained to the guys the nature of the urgent cases and was told by the shop steward that in view of the cases I was right to go in. I went through the cases, categorised them and processed the most urgent where delays simply were not an option. Only the vital cases were done and then I left. If it wasn't vitally urgent it was not done. On principle I do not pass pickets. If in my current job a strike starts - and it is likely - I will not pass unless there is some vital reason where the non-completion of some work could have catastrophic consequences for someone. There is one such case on my desk right now where its non-completion would have catastrophic consequences for her. Having dealt with that complicated case over quite a period of time, given what the woman has been through if she needs more help I could not possibly leave her in the lurch. But hers would be the only case I would process.