It could have been Morning Ireland alright - I was on the road at the time so concentration wasn't full. It was just after the 8.00 am news.

I wonder how Sean Quinn and his family feel hearing that this kind of carry on was going on. The Quinn group has had its own problems with loans this year. Too many people have been messing around.

I think 2008 can now officially be titled "THE YEAR OF THE LOAN" (Declan Ganley backing music).

Loan from FF to Celia.
Loans from friends to Bertie.
Loan from Ganley to Libertas?
Loan from Rivada to Libertas?
Loan from Quinn Insurance to Quinn family companies.
Loan from Anglo to Quinn to buy 15% of Bank.
Laon from Anglo to Fitzpatrick and Bradshaw.
Loan from Irish Nationwide to Fitzpatrick and Bradshaw.

Two things (amongst others) are disquieting about this.

- The Regulator became aware of this "earlier in the year". What measures did he take to "regulate" this situation? Are there any similar "unregulated" situations of a similar kind that he is aware of?

- The loan seems to be rolled on for the same amount year after year and Mr. Fitzpatrick said that it was a loan backed by assets in the normal way. He also offered his opinion that the arrangement was not illegal.

I would be very interested to know what the assets were, if normal interest payments were made and why none of the capital appears to have been repaid after 8 years.

Is it not high time someone Regulated the Regulator?

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

It could have been Morning Ireland alright - I was on the road at the time so concentration wasn't full. It was just after the 8.00 am news.

I wonder how Sean Quinn and his family feel hearing that this kind of carry on was going on. The Quinn group has had its own problems with loans this year. Too many people have been messing around.

I think 2008 can now officially be titled "THE YEAR OF THE LOAN" (Declan Ganley backing music).

Loan from FF to Celia.
Loans from friends to Bertie.
Loan from Ganley to Libertas?
Loan from Rivada to Libertas?
Loan from Quinn Insurance to Quinn family companies.
Loan from Anglo to Quinn to buy 15% of Bank.
Laon from Anglo to Fitzpatrick and Bradshaw.
Loan from Irish Nationwide to Fitzpatrick and Bradshaw.

"It'll be loanly this Christmas without you to sharehold." Very well spotted Zhou - you might copy it or something like it into the Yearly Review thread if you want but I'll probably rob it later anyhow.

youngdan wrote:

What the bank is worth Audi and the loans have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Can you explain it to me at all dan, I have only a cursory knowledge of banking and money and so on. Is the 87 millen money movements kind of along the lines of Fitzy putting it all into a briefcase and taking a photo of it. Taking it out, putting it into another briefcase of a different color and snapping again. And repeating that process until he has run out of money for briefcases and has to doctor the ones he already he has by defacing and painting and coffee-staining the first ones.

After twenty or so photos of the money he has enough photos to prove to the shareholders and to whom it may concern that there is actually 2 billen in the bank, not 87 millan. And they believe him 'cos he's getting a huge fu*k-you-all salary of 2 millun or so or thereabouts per year and should know therefore what he's doing ? After all, how else can he afford that enormous house / merc / waiting & cleaning staff ? Is it anything like that ?

cactus flower wrote:

Is it not high time someone Regulated the Regulator?

Ah, one of those "why is the emperor naked?" / "who will audit the auditors" questions ..

Pil on the Pinl wrote:

Illegal for a Director to take more than 10% of the assets in loans - breach of company law. I've seen it in a few companies whereby the director has a revolving loan, i.e. repays it just before y/e (to keep the auditors happy) and draws it back down early in new year.

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?p=174668#p174668

Rumours on the Pin that Anglo is giving up the ghost soon.

The Regulator can't stay now - the Finance Ministry has been deceiving the people in fairness. When your Regulator is broken things can go very badly wrong afterwards. This crowd is full of sh*t lads.

Auditor #9 wrote:

Pil on the Pinl wrote:

Illegal for a Director to take more than 10% of the assets in loans - breach of company law. I've seen it in a few companies whereby the director has a revolving loan, i.e. repays it just before y/e (to keep the auditors happy) and draws it back down early in new year.

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?p=174668#p174668

Rumours on the Pin that Anglo is giving up the ghost soon.

The Regulator can't stay now - the Finance Ministry has been deceiving the people in fairness. When your Regulator is broken things can go very badly wrong afterwards. This crowd is full of sh*t lads.

I understand that the Bank Guarantee means that we are backing this transaction. I think the Guarantee also covered any transactions made after the date of the Guarantee.

From that pin thread - Drumm gone too.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1219/breaking45.htm

Can the end be far away now for Anglo?

coc wrote:

From that pin thread - Drumm gone too.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1219/breaking45.htm

Can the end be far away now for Anglo?

Ah yeh, they're getting out now while there's still enough money to pay them big handshake cheques. Bloody rats the lot of them.

Can somebody please do their ****** job and fire the Financial Regulator....

In the interests of consistency, whilst I wholeheartedly agree with you, would you consider cleaning up your f'n post?

Auditor #9 wrote:

Pil on the Pinl wrote:

Illegal for a Director to take more than 10% of the assets in loans - breach of company law. I've seen it in a few companies whereby the director has a revolving loan, i.e. repays it just before y/e (to keep the auditors happy) and draws it back down early in new year.

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?p=174668#p174668

Rumours on the Pin that Anglo is giving up the ghost soon.

The Regulator can't stay now - the Finance Ministry has been deceiving the people in fairness. When your Regulator is broken things can go very badly wrong afterwards. This crowd is full of sh*t lads.

I think Pil is talking through his pants. Firstly, it is 10% of assets not capitalisation. Secondly, as johnfas has pointed out elsewhere, a lot of those rules don't apply to businesses who are lenders by trade.

I can't read this layout but a good song would be A loan alone O. Based on the better known Alive Alive O.

He wheeled his wheelbarrow, between banks sound and shaky, singing swindles, and scams, a loan alone O.

fix the site and we will have a sing song

The site is OK right now ...

"In Dubbelin's fair city,
Where the banks are so shitty,
I first laid me eyes on bould Fitzy's big loan ..."

A loan, a big loan,
By the credit crunched shores
Just a loan from a crowd of loons

Oh the loons they are gay
as I Nationwide it away
But the money is not here at all

It flies far away
In september for a few days
To a place where it is not see-een at all-ll

For I never will forget
The Facilities I did get
In the Val-ley of Na-ation-wide

He wheeled his wheelbarrow through streets broad and narrow,
Crying "Fingers ya boyah, can I've a big loan?" ...

Can I've a big loan?
Can I've a big loan?

Crying "Good on ya Fingers, now I've a big loan" ...

Who'll do the sad verse?

He nmet the receiver
Who said 'no more can you bleed her
and everyone will know of you bigF_ck off loan'

Just looking at the Anglo share price ar 25c - it is just incredible.

I have to be honest and say that Anglo were very professional any time I came in contact with them and I have huge sympathy for those people now. The human tragedy is as real as Cappoquin Chickens or Waterford Crystal and possibly a lot bigger with knock on effects. However wrong these guys got it, a lot of them were following policy which was set by those who were supposed to know what they were doing.

Is it just my computer or is everything stretched out

youngdan wrote:

Is it just my computer or is everything stretched out

We will probably be back to dial up in 6 months Dan.Going Forward.
Out of curiosity.Does the fact that both Anglo and INBS are amongst the largest operators in the 50 billion Offshore Sterling deposit market ,based in the Isle of Man expose them to some potential shock and awe if large scale deposits seek to withdraw or test the State Guarantee?
Also with short term interest rates splattering,what further operational pressure is exerted on the capacity for Anglo/INBS to deliver on the high yield rates that both offered,to secure their dominant market position?
Iirc the stg rates they offered were amongst the highest in the world.Some might have called them Award winning.

powderfinger wrote:

youngdan wrote:

Is it just my computer or is everything stretched out

We will probably be back to dial up in 6 months Dan.Going Forward.
Out of curiosity.Does the fact that both Anglo and INBS are amongst the largest operators in the 50 billion Offshore Sterling deposit market ,based in the Isle of Man expose them to some potential shock and awe if large scale deposits seek to withdraw or test the State Guarantee?
Also with short term interest rates splattering,what further operational pressure is exerted on the capacity for Anglo/INBS to deliver on the high yield rates that both offered,to secure their dominant market position?
Iirc the stg rates they offered were amongst the highest in the world.Some might have called them Award winning.

A bell in my head is ringing. It sounds like Ice - land ....

The regulator was a banker... what do you expect. I hate this nonsense that if we replace the boards of these banks we will end up with a second rate team. Most Chartered Accountants in any substantial firm could run these places far better than the current crowd. You don't need to understand complex derivatives to run a bank, all you need to understand is that if something is so complicated that 95% of people, even economists, can neither understand nor trace an investment, then it is a bad business move to engage in it. I learnt that in Junior Cert Business Studies.

Today FM are playing an interview they had with Fitzpatrick in June where he is complaining of the regulatory burden placed on his bank which is (was) stifling its development. If it weren't so serious I'd be in stitches.

Some fall from grace anyway, glad Cooper is taking him to town.

Yeh, I agree, total bullshit.

It's all a facade designed to keep a lot of second rate people up there, earning huge wads of cash, all members of golden circles and crony circles. It makes me puke.
And of course the salaries have to be huge to keep that level of talent in the Country, never mind in the Company.
A lot of these guys are institutionalised, politically protected gombeens. Talent my backside ...

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Yeh, I agree, total bullshit.

It's all a facade designed to keep a lot of second rate people up there, earning huge wads of cash, all members of golden circles and crony circles. It makes me puke.
And of course the salaries have to be huge to keep that level of talent in the Country, never mind in the Company.
A lot of these guys are institutionalised, politically protected gombeens. Talent my backside ...

Yea that's another bullshit. It is the same argument they use for the exorbitant salaries we pay our Government Ministers. The argument sure if we didn't pay that wouldn't Bertie Ahern be earning it in the private sector. Bollox, if Bertie Ahern wasn't in politics he'd be in the same petty cash office in the Mater Hospital as he started and Cowen would be working in the same small solicitor's practice as he began. There would be thousands of highly qualified, highly competent, and highly experienced individuals who would be happy to be chairman of an Irish bank at a salary a tenth of what these guys are earning.

Politics is all about stealing. Did ye think they were in it for the good of their health.

At least the site is back and I can read it and if Albanian was being sarcastic there will be ire in this festive season.