Just caught this - it seems like the writing is on the wall

The world holds it breath

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/mugabe-the-writings-on-the-wall-802717.html


Say a little prayer to what ever God or diety you believe in tonight before you hit the sack that this transfer of power can be done with as little bloodshed as possible - its the very least the people of Zimbabwe deserve.

Edo wrote:

Just caught this - it seems like the writing is on the wall

The world holds it breath

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/mugabe-the-writings-on-the-wall-802717.html


Say a little prayer to what ever God or diety you believe in tonight before you hit the sack that this transfer of power can be done with as little bloodshed as possible - its the very least the people of Zimbabwe deserve.

Indeed, I second that. I'm delighted this is happening. No doubt it's just the begining of a long and toughjourney for Zimbabwe but at least it seems the destination is the right one.

Edo wrote:

Just caught this - it seems like the writing is on the wall

The world holds it breath

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/mugabe-the-writings-on-the-wall-802717.html


Say a little prayer to what ever God or diety you believe in tonight before you hit the sack that this transfer of power can be done with as little bloodshed as possible - its the very least the people of Zimbabwe deserve.

I hope they can get through this with their lives and their independence intact.

No doubt some blood will be spilled.

About 3 / 4 years ago, met some Zimbabweans through Amnesty Intl. The stories they told ... absolutely horrendous as you all can guess.

By a complete fluke, a fellow student in evening class happened to work in the Zimbabwean Embassy in London. At the end of term, supplied with copious amounts of red wine by our Prof, we finally had this really intense end-of-term class where we spent the whole class discussing law, human rights, anything that came into our heads, but ended up being mainly about Zimbabwe. I had a definite clash with him. The whole class was polite respect-your-terms-of-reference until then. Sod that. I had met people who had fled for their lives and who literally bore the scars of their lives in their home country.

Wot am I trying to say here? I have followed Zimbabwean events for some years now and am almost too scared to believe it might end soon. I pray for that day but will unfortunately only believe it when I see it. It won't be pleasant when it happens.
Of course, SA could've pulled the plug years ago... but that was a whole other class / discussion.

Tallys are showing 60% for new democratic party (what's their name) and 30% for Mugabe. There is no official result. There is already talk of vote rigging and refusal to hand over power.
It could get nasty out there.

Here's hoping that that obstreperous pustule on the posterior of humanity will be perfunctorily evacuated from executive control by the democratic will of the Zimbabwean people. I hope there will be no blood, since that vile man isn't worth a millilitre shed, and Zimbabwe peacefully transitions to stable and actual democracy. Otherwise, Zimbabwe stands as the strongest reason yet for re-colonisation.

Edo wrote:

Just caught this - it seems like the writing is on the wall

The world holds it breath

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/mugabe-the-writings-on-the-wall-802717.html


Say a little prayer to what ever God or diety you believe in tonight before you hit the sack that this transfer of power can be done with as little bloodshed as possible - its the very least the people of Zimbabwe deserve.

A diety? Would that be like Gillian McKeith? I'm damned if i'm getting down on my knees for her (again).

On a serious note, I fear nothing short of revolution will remove Mugabe at this stage. Vote counts are irrelevant when one has an army behind you.

Can somebody out there just take this lunatic out of the game ?

Breaking News.ie wrote:

Zimbabwe’s Robert Mugabe warned today he would not step down even if he
does lose the presidential election to be held later this month.

“We
shed a lot of blood for this country. We are not going to give up our
country for a mere X” on a ballot. How can a ball point pen fight with
a gun?“ he said in the government mouthpiece Herald newspaper.

Full story Here

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Can somebody out there just take this lunatic out of the game ?

Breaking News.ie wrote:

Zimbabwe’s Robert Mugabe warned today he would not step down even if he
does lose the presidential election to be held later this month.

“We
shed a lot of blood for this country. We are not going to give up our
country for a mere X” on a ballot. How can a ball point pen fight with
a gun?“ he said in the government mouthpiece Herald newspaper.

Full story Here

Now who does this remind me of.....

I am very pleased to see this.

Quote :

21/07/2008 - 11:31:24

Zimbabwe president Robert Mugabe and his fiercest rival opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai are expected to sign an agreement to hold power-sharing talks today.

Officials in South Africa said its President Thabo Mbeki who has been acting as go-between is scheduled to arrive in Harare for the signing.

The agreement sets out conditions for talks to form a unity government to help resolve Zimbabwe’s political and economic crisis.

Opposition leader Mr Tsvangirai won most votes in the March elections but pulled out of a June run-off vote against Mugabe because of escalating state-sponsored violence against his supporters

I have to say that I agreed with the veto on sanctions. I hope that the Zimbabweans can find a way through that allows them to start being a productive country, without losing their independence and signing everything over to the corporations.

cactus flower wrote:

I am very pleased to see this.

Quote :

21/07/2008 - 11:31:24

Zimbabwe president Robert Mugabe and his fiercest rival opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai are expected to sign an agreement to hold power-sharing talks today.

Officials in South Africa said its President Thabo Mbeki who has been acting as go-between is scheduled to arrive in Harare for the signing.

The agreement sets out conditions for talks to form a unity government to help resolve Zimbabwe’s political and economic crisis.

Opposition leader Mr Tsvangirai won most votes in the March elections but pulled out of a June run-off vote against Mugabe because of escalating state-sponsored violence against his supporters

I have to say that I agreed with the veto on sanctions. I hope that the Zimbabweans can find a way through that allows them to start being a productive country, without losing their independence and signing everything over to the corporations.

Why are you pleased to see an agreement to hold power-sharing talks? It's a sign of a country that has failed, that democracy doesn't work there. Either Mugabe and ZANU-PF won the elections and hold power from the people or they lost the elections and they don't.

The veto on sanctions is irrelevant since sanctions don't work as Saddam Hussein proved in the 90s.

Corporations provide work. Ireland depends on large foreign corporations for employment.

Lestat wrote:

Why are you pleased to see an agreement to hold power-sharing talks? It's a sign of a country that has failed, that democracy doesn't work there. Either Mugabe and ZANU-PF won the elections and hold power from the people or they lost the elections and they don't.

Corporations provide work. Ireland depends on large foreign corporations for employment.

What on earth does that mean? Talks offer the chance of some peace, which is why I suspect cactus flower welcomes them. Zimbabweans have a choice between non-democratic violence and non-democratic peace.

Corporation provide work, but they also provide capital flight and eventually unemployment. They also have a nasty habit of threatening to pull out of a country unless they get their way.

This is good news. Let us not adopt the approach of ideologues so reject peace for a bloody democracy. Zimbabwe is not going to turn into a peaceful liberal democracy overnight, its 'peaceful democratic' neighbour, South Africa, still isn't. It is however, a step on a path to peace which is much needed for the sake of all the citizens of the country.

It's very good news indeed. Was it due to pressure being put on Zimbabwe by the neighbours?

Auditor #9 wrote:

It's very good news indeed. Was it due to pressure being put on Zimbabwe by the neighbours?

I'd say it had more to do with an acceptance by Mugabe that he needs to remedy the situation in some manner. South Africa provided a means that suited both parties. Like Lestat I'd see this as a victory for Mugabe, if he forms some sort of government then he gets a veneer of legitimacy. The others get whatever they can, but they're not bargaining from a position of power. Anyway, it's better than nothing. Perhaps the MDC can hope to sideline Mugabe, as with Musharraf in Pakistan.

905 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

It's very good news indeed. Was it due to pressure being put on Zimbabwe by the neighbours?

I'd say it had more to do with an acceptance by Mugabe that he needs to remedy the situation in some manner. South Africa provided a means that suited both parties. Like Lestat I'd see this as a victory for Mugabe, if he forms some sort of government then he gets a veneer of legitimacy. The others get whatever they can, but they're not bargaining from a position of power. Anyway, it's better than nothing. Perhaps the MDC can hope to sideline Mugabe, as with Musharraf in Pakistan.

Its a very hungry country in a lot of trouble. It must have been apparent that it would implode without change.
It is too early to know if this is genuine from Mugabe or just a delaying tactic. I don't know enough about MT one way or the other. I just hope they can get their act together.

905 wrote:

What on earth does that mean? Talks offer the chance of some peace, which is why I suspect cactus flower welcomes them. Zimbabweans have a choice between non-democratic violence and non-democratic peace.

As long as we are all aware that it's non-democratic. What's interesting is the acceptance that it's somehow OK for losers in an election to engineer violence, enter a peace process and end up sharing power. Why not forego the whole sham-election altogether and settle for perpetual power-sharing government. Let's hope George Bush isn't watching.

905 wrote:

Corporation provide work, but they also provide capital flight and eventually unemployment. They also have a nasty habit of threatening to pull out of a country unless they get their way.

As long as they provide work. Mind you I'd say the capital is flying out of Zimbabwe as we speak...

Quote :

Mugabe to seize control of foreign companies
21 July 2008

By Cris Chinaka and Paul Majendie
ZIMBABWE will transfer ownership of all foreign-owned firms that support western sanctions against President Robert Mugabe’s government to locals and investors from “friendly” countries, a state newspaper reported yesterday.
The Sunday Mail said Zimbabwe had begun auditing the ownership of western firms in the country as part of a black empowerment drive “and to counter the possible withdrawal of investment under sanctions imposed and proposed by Britain and the US.”

Mugabe — fighting to retain power after winning a run-off poll boycotted by his rival — says Zimbabwe’s severe economic crisis, which has left it with an inflation rate of more than 2.2 million per cent and chronic shortages of food and other basic needs, is owing to sabotage by former colonial master Britain, its European Union allies and the United States.

The Sunday Mail paper said preliminary results of Zimbabwe’s audit of foreign investments showed that 499 companies enjoyed British investments. Of these, 309 had majority shareholders in Britain and 97 were wholly owned by Britons.

The audit also found 353 firms with shareholders from other European countries, the weekly said in a story largely attributed to unnamed government sources.

“A high-ranking government source told the Sunday Mail that these companies would be targeted for takeover by local investors and companies from friendly countries, particularly those in the Far East, should they heed calls by the US and European governments for them to disinvest from Zimbabwe,” it said.

Most of the Western investments in Zimbabwe are in tourism, agriculture, manufacturing and food processing industries.

Meanwhile, African Union commission chief Jean Ping expressed his hope yesterday that Zimbabwe’s ruling party and the opposition would sign a deal within 24 hours to begin fully-fledged talks.

Ping met Mugabe, opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) chief Morgan Tsvangirai and a separate MDC faction on Saturday to prop up efforts to solve the country’s political crisis, an AU commission spokesman told AFP.

“He [Ping] is hopeful that a memorandum of understanding, which will outline the talks agenda and ground rules, will be signed tomorrow [Monday] with the MDC being part of it. Tsvangirai has given assurance of this,” said Elghassim Wane.

Also yesterday, Zimbabwe introduced a new 100-billion-dollar bank note in a bid to tackle rampant cash shortages, the central bank said.

The new note will go into circulation today, the bank said in a statement cited by state media, joining about half a dozen new high denomination notes already issued this year.

In January, a 10-million-dollar note was issued, then a 50-million-dollar note in April.

In May, notes for 100 million and 250 million dollars were issued, swiftly followed by those for five billion, 25 billion and 50 billion.

The southern African nation, currently gripped by a post-election crisis, has been ravaged by hyperinflation which shot up from 165,000% in February to 2.2 million in June.

Independent economists, however, believe the official inflation figure is grossly understated, estimating it could be running between 10 million and 15 million percent.

http://www.examiner.ie/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=world-qqqm=world-qqqa=world-qqqid=67809-qqqx=1.asp

905 wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

It's very good news indeed. Was it due to pressure being put on Zimbabwe by the neighbours?

I'd say it had more to do with an acceptance by Mugabe that he needs to remedy the situation in some manner. South Africa provided a means that suited both parties. Like Lestat I'd see this as a victory for Mugabe, if he forms some sort of government then he gets a veneer of legitimacy. The others get whatever they can, but they're not bargaining from a position of power. Anyway, it's better than nothing. Perhaps the MDC can hope to sideline Mugabe, as with Musharraf in Pakistan.

A victory for Mugabe eh? Is he really a demon or is there a lot of adverse press against him too? So he rigged elections - fianna fail do that all the time anyway by telling everyone the country will go bankrupt if fine gael get in and we believe it

Just reading Stiglitz (still) and how he talks about timing and sequencing when an economy is moving from one type to another - would you say that there was a massive difference before and during Mugabe's reign and could he be an unfortunate but necessary intermediate period between two different Zimbabwes - post and ante colonisation which will take a little time and sequencing to sort out (sort of a decompression chamber)

Hyperinflation is a raging beast. It is a pity that the information on Zimbabwe's economy is either wildly anti or uncritically pro Mugabe. I would like to know what is really going on. The best thing I've read yet was the stuff I posted from the soil erosion people who explained about the agricultural issues.

A victory for Mugabe is a bad thing in principle but it should mean peace. Remember how Mugabe rigged the election; I can't remember FF going around intimidating and killing people (though my granny can). He's not a cartoon villain and I'm sure he's not crazy about the current state of the country. He was the hero of the region for a while remember, imagine having to enforce that kind of devotion now?

I'm not an expert on Zimbabwe's economy and I can't comment on the idea that instability (of any kind) is inevitable in major economic change. I suspect such a thing would be more region specific than a general economic rule.

Auditor #9 wrote:

A victory for Mugabe eh? Is he really a demon or is there a lot of adverse press against him too?

He's a real sweetheart.

http://www.sokwanele.com/articles/supporting/nightmareofmugabesmatableatrocities_2may1997.html

I want one of those new 100 billion dollar notes they're bringing out today, I can add it to my wallet of dictators. 

cookiemonster wrote:

I want one of those new 100 billion dollar notes they're bringing out today, I can add it to my wallet of dictators.

I suggest e-bay.

So, how are they going to sort out their economic woes? These talks look shakey and will probably drag out. Can the country sustain long-term dithering over the government? I think South Africa has a problem with refugees already.

Incidentally Ivory Coast has has shown what leadership is all about. They're going to halve their ministers' wage-packets and reduce overseas trips to a bare minimun.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2008/07/2008720203024668874.html

I've got one of the 10 million notes, they were printing them about 18 months ago.

We need to worry about military dictatorship in Zimbabwe at the moment. One must ask the question as to whether Mugabe would actually have the ability to enforce any agreement he signs.