The witching hour is upon us, meaning it is now 27 November 2008. More particularly it is the fourth Thursday in November and thus the festival of Thanksgiving across the United States. According to history the first Thanksgiving Meal took place on 8 September 1565 when Pedro Menéndex de Avilés upon landing in America held a mass of thanksgiving for his safe passage alongside 600 Spanish settlers. By the mid 18th century and particularly linked to the Pilgrim Fathers, a Thanksgiving celebration became an annual event, a proclamation of Thanksgiving was made by the 1777 Continental Congress. The first Governmental proclamation of a day of Thanksgiving was made by President George Washington for Thursday 26 November 1789.

Thanksgiving was largely created to give thanks to Almighty God for the blessings which he bestowed upon people and the celebration remains thus to many people today. However, aside from the commercial realities of modern 'holidays', it has grown to a national holiday in which families stop, gather, take stock and eat together giving thanks for all that they have as a family and as individuals.

Things are bad out there at the moment, but all of us here have shelter, food on our table and friends to affirm us. Pull up a chair at the Machine Nation table and enjoy the meal.

I had a great Thanksgiving meal while in college in Germany with a huge gang of Americans years and years ago. Happy days, happy days.

I dont pray, but having a meal as thanksgiving to the Almighty sounds like a better way.

Kate P wrote:

I had a great Thanksgiving meal while in college in Germany with a huge gang of Americans years and years ago. Happy days, happy days.

I did that in UCD once too - was terrific fun. My girlfriend is living with an American down in UL for the year and they are having a huge crowd over to their apartment to share in the Thanksgiving spirit.

Do many Protestant churches down the country still have a hearty meal for Harvest Festival, Kate?

Are we in Ireland now also celebrating the theft from, and murder of, Native Americans? There's nothing to thank God for there.

There's nothing to thank anyone for depending on the way you look at it. Have a look at your shoes and see where and under what conditions they were manufactured. Yet at the same time I would imagine you are rather glad that you have them.

johnfás wrote:

Kate P wrote:

I had a great Thanksgiving meal while in college in Germany with a huge gang of Americans years and years ago. Happy days, happy days.

I did that in UCD once too - was terrific fun. My girlfriend is living with an American down in UL for the year and they are having a huge crowd over to their apartment to share in the Thanksgiving spirit.

Do many Protestant churches down the country still have a hearty meal for Harvest Festival, Kate?

I was raised Catholic in a predominantly portestant Irish Village/small town (but have been a humanist Quaker on and off for about 20 years now) and I'd forgotten that tradition until you mentioned it. There was always a harvest festival celebration in the local church and in the parish hall afterwards. It was really nice too.

Once we had a young woman in the US Army staying with us over thanksgiving. She was here studying literature - although she was a bomb disposal expert by training and very anxious about the likelihood of the Iraq war at the time. Anyway, she was really homesick and so we decided to surprise her with a traditional thanksgiving meal. I'm not sure if we pulled it off properly but she was reall happy with the attempt. It was our first taste of homemade pecan pie and we ain't looked back since. One very curious traditional dish they have is pureed sweet potato covered in grilled marshmallow.

(BTW we once did a similar thing for a Greek woman who was staying with us at Greek Easter which is a HUGE deal over there - if anyone is ever interested in that, they have amazing grub for the celebrations which go on for three days. Let's have an Easter thread next spring?)

toxic avenger wrote:

Are we in Ireland now also celebrating the theft from, and murder of, Native Americans? There's nothing to thank God for there.

There were Native Americans at the first Thanksgiving, and they brought the turkeys to the settlers, who were starving.


Morongo Indians provide turkeys to families in need
Bob Otto, Staff Writer
Posted: 11/18/2008 09:22:05 PM PST


Sherri Benedict reached out both arms for the 20-pound bag that would help feed her family on Thanksgiving and humbly said "thank you."
Inside the bag was a 20-pound frozen turkey, one of 11,000 that the Morongo Band of Mission Indians will be handing out to those most in need this Thanksgiving holiday.

Benedict is one of them. Recently her work was cut back to 10 1/2 hours a week. Between her income and that of her husband, the family of four is facing tough economic times.

"We weren't even going to get a turkey this year," Benedict said. "Now we get to have a nice turkey dinner. I'm so grateful. This is a blessing for those of us less fortunate."

Benedict was one of about 250 parents who came to Cabazon Elementary School on Monday to receive turkeys from the Morongo tribe.

For 23 years, the tribe has helped families in need at Thanksgiving time through its Thanksgiving Outreach program.

This year, the tribe has outdone itself. The 11,000-turkey donation is the largest in the history of the outreach program. Last year, 8,000 turkeys were given out.

But the tribe knew the need would be much greater this year because of the faltering economy, said Elaine Mathews, a Morongo Tribal Council member who chairs the Outreach Committee.

"To be able to provide for people who don't have much is a very good feeling," said Mathews, who has been involved with the Thanksgiving Outreach for 15 years. "At one time our tribe
didn't have anything either and people gave to us. Now we are returning the favor."
At 10 a.m. Monday, a delivery truck pulled into the Morongo Reservation Community Center. More than 100 volunteers and tribal and community members unloaded and bagged and boxed 2,100 frozen turkeys for the delivery rounds.

For Joker Zamote of the Set Free Church Men's Ranch in Cabazon, this is his second year volunteering for the program.

"There is a much greater need this year," Zamote said. "There are more people out of work. People are coming up and telling us how grateful they are. This is such a blessing and good thing that Morongo does."

After visiting Cabazon Elementary, the volunteers headed for the Banning Community Center.

At 1:30 p.m., a line had already started forming. The parking lot was full an hour later and about 200 people formed a line 50 yards long snaking its way toward tables where volunteers handed out turkeys to waiting arms.

"The families of our students have been hit hard by the economy," said Philip Takacs, student assistance counselor for the Banning Unified School District. "We could have easily done this for the upper (high school) grades too."

Monday was just the beginning. Each day of the week volunteers will give away turkeys. On Morongo's list were 47 schools and charitable organizations, and six other tribes that will receive turkeys.

A final turkey giveaway will be held Friday at the Morongo Community Center. Last year, more than 1,000 leftover turkeys were given away. Far more people are expected to be in line this year.

Fortunately for Bridgel Johnson of Cabazon, she has already received her turkey and won't have to take her chances on Friday.

Like millions of Americans, the weak economy has decimated her income, and she works two part-time jobs to support herself and her two young children.

"My work has been cut way down," Johnson said. "It's hard for us right now. It would have been hard to buy a turkey. This is such a blessing for us."

Which only goes to make it all the more sad and repugnant, considering what came after. All the more galling is the way things like a massacre of natives could become 'The Battle' of Wounded Knee. The War of Independence, as Gore Vidal pointed out, wasn't a war to be free of oppression, it was a war to be free to oppress others. The British were, in fact, the only people standing in the way of the mass slaughter of, and expropriation of land from, the native population. That's what, in my view, Thanksgiving represents.

toxic avenger wrote:

Are we in Ireland now also celebrating the theft from, and murder of, Native Americans? There's nothing to thank God for there.

Harvest festival is an ancient pagan tradition adopted by Christians and was celebrated long before they came along. You're so right to point out the awfulness of the settling context in America though. Howard Zinn has chronicled how native Indians were horrified by the inequality among the white settlers and how the clear consequence of a system of living based on heirarchical privelege resulted in widespread hunger and starvation - something almost unknown to the vast majority of Indian tribes outside natural disasters. It was unthinkable to them that some would grow fat at the expense of others. They were amazed at the inability of the Europeans to manage the natural resources equitably. And of course it's also true that a lot of 'thanksgiving' at the time included thanksgiving for the slaughter of the natives in the course of their god-sanctioned mission.

'Why I hate thanksgiving by Mitchel Cohen' - heart-rending reading:

http://www.rense.com/general45/thanks2.htm

toxic avenger wrote:

Which only goes to make it all the more sad and repugnant, considering what came after. All the more galling is the way things like a massacre of natives could become 'The Battle' of Wounded Knee. The War of Independence, as Gore Vidal pointed out, wasn't a war to be free of oppression, it was a war to be free to oppress others. The British were, in fact, the only people standing in the way of the mass slaughter of, and expropriation of land from, the native population. That's what, in my view, Thanksgiving represents.

Are you a fan of Native American history?

A few Indians marched to highlight this in Plymouth a few years back but the cops are not too malahide to history it seems.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D06E3DE133AF93BA15752C1A961958260

tonys wrote:

toxic avenger wrote:

Which only goes to make it all the more sad and repugnant, considering what came after. All the more galling is the way things like a massacre of natives could become 'The Battle' of Wounded Knee. The War of Independence, as Gore Vidal pointed out, wasn't a war to be free of oppression, it was a war to be free to oppress others. The British were, in fact, the only people standing in the way of the mass slaughter of, and expropriation of land from, the native population. That's what, in my view, Thanksgiving represents.

Are you a fan of Native American history?

I have read some, most recently, at last, Dee Brown's 'Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee'. I have also read general histories of America which sometimes covers the subject adequately, sometimes appallingly. I tend towards 19th and 20th Century Irish, British, and European political history, plus an unhealthy obsession with what the cuddly Germans got up to when they decided to see the world...

Aragon wrote:

toxic avenger wrote:

Are we in Ireland now also celebrating the theft from, and murder of, Native Americans? There's nothing to thank God for there.

Harvest festival is an ancient pagan tradition adopted by Christians and was celebrated long before they came along. You're so right to point out the awfulness of the settling context in America though. Howard Zinn has chronicled how native Indians were horrified by the inequality among the white settlers and how the clear consequence of a system of living based on heirarchical privelege resulted in widespread hunger and starvation - something almost unknown to the vast majority of Indian tribes outside natural disasters. It was unthinkable to them that some would grow fat at the expense of others. They were amazed at the inability of the Europeans to manage the natural resources equitably. And of course it's also true that a lot of 'thanksgiving' at the time included thanksgiving for the slaughter of the natives in the course of their god-sanctioned mission.

'Why I hate thanksgiving by Mitchel Cohen' - heart-rending reading:

http://www.rense.com/general45/thanks2.htm

Thanks for the link, Aragon, I'll read it in a little while. I can just imagine how horrified they were with what must have seemed the barbarism and rank stupidity of European 'civilisation'...

toxic avenger wrote:

tonys wrote:

toxic avenger wrote:

Which only goes to make it all the more sad and repugnant, considering what came after. All the more galling is the way things like a massacre of natives could become 'The Battle' of Wounded Knee. The War of Independence, as Gore Vidal pointed out, wasn't a war to be free of oppression, it was a war to be free to oppress others. The British were, in fact, the only people standing in the way of the mass slaughter of, and expropriation of land from, the native population. That's what, in my view, Thanksgiving represents.

Are you a fan of Native American history?

I have read some, most recently, at last, Dee Brown's 'Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee'. I have also read general histories of America which sometimes covers the subject adequately, sometimes appallingly. I tend towards 19th and 20th Century Irish, British, and European political history, plus an unhealthy obsession with what the cuddly Germans got up to when they decided to see the world...

I read Wounded Knee years ago in my innocent youth, made a big impression on me at the time. More recently I am interested in military history, particularly British military history, from the French revolution to early 20^th century, busy times. I’m reading about Lawrence of Arabia at the moment, interesting.

tonys wrote:

toxic avenger wrote:

tonys wrote:

toxic avenger wrote:

Which only goes to make it all the more sad and repugnant, considering what came after. All the more galling is the way things like a massacre of natives could become 'The Battle' of Wounded Knee. The War of Independence, as Gore Vidal pointed out, wasn't a war to be free of oppression, it was a war to be free to oppress others. The British were, in fact, the only people standing in the way of the mass slaughter of, and expropriation of land from, the native population. That's what, in my view, Thanksgiving represents.

Are you a fan of Native American history?

I have read some, most recently, at last, Dee Brown's 'Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee'. I have also read general histories of America which sometimes covers the subject adequately, sometimes appallingly. I tend towards 19th and 20th Century Irish, British, and European political history, plus an unhealthy obsession with what the cuddly Germans got up to when they decided to see the world...

I read Wounded Knee years ago in my innocent youth, made a big impression on me at the time. More recently I am interested in military history, particularly British military history, from the French revolution to early 20^th century, busy times. I’m reading about Lawrence of Arabia at the moment, interesting.

An odd fish, Lawrence. He exaggerated some of his exploits (though not as many as some have claimed), but he achieved a remarkable feat in uniting the Arabs against the Turks. A very unlikely hero, given his bookish academic background. I understand he struck up something of a friendship with Michael Collins at the time of the negotiations...