Auditor #9 wrote:

Shouldn't this bailout come attached with some conditions if it goes through ?

Was that not fairly implicit in my original posts? I wrote of "legitimate restructuring" in my third post on the issue and in my first post on the issue I spoke of such a package only working if it maintains a high degree of "adequacy".

johnfás wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Shouldn't this bailout come attached with some conditions if it goes through ?

Was that not fairly implicit in my original posts? I wrote of "legitimate restructuring" in my third post on the issue and in my first post on the issue I spoke of such a package only working if it maintains a high degree of "adequacy".

You did but I was replying to you on the issue of petrol consumption being related to solvency which is a detail of that restructuring. You said you don't consider petrol consumption as affecting solvency - if you don't believe that you mustn't believe that rainfall affects umbrella production.

Who is going to pay for bailing out the banks and motor industry - they are private companies from which some people have become enormously wealthy?

I was reading in the UK Sunday papers that car use has dropped over and above what would be expected from the oil price and economic downturn. Is the day of the car waning? In the US, it is much more difficult because everything is so spread out.

It seems that both the UK and US car manufacturers need to completely retool their production lines and in the case of the US they need completely new models. Perhaps a tax write off would be the way to deal with that ?

This seems to have gone a long way from Obama- should it be a separate thread?

cactus flower wrote:

This seems to have gone a long way from Obama- should it be a separate thread?

Well, Obama's mantra is "reduce dependency on foreign oil" so perhaps it could be under a thread of something like that. If he's going to give his blessing to 50 billion then surely it should come with conditions and I think it's worth exploring those conditions or potential conditions. As johnfás says we don't know all the variables but MPG is a big one of them or should be. Other variables that we know about are an expensive medicare package for employees and high wages.

It should be of value to see whether or not there are conditions to any bailout and it's intimately bound up with how Obama's administration will act isn't it?

Yes: I see your point.

So how about tax incentives for new electric rechargeable little low energy consumption cars?[quote][code]

Electric cars need to be part of an overall strategy. I have heard that idea pulled from the sky by people who then proceed to say that renewable energy and nuclear power are all a waste of time. If you follow their mantra, you still run cars from fossil fuels just indirectly.

cactus flower wrote:

Yes: I see your point.

So how about tax incentives for new electric rechargeable little low energy consumption cars?

This seems to have already happened and according to the fella below they are going begging for 25 billion for 'fuel efficiency research' & to look after employee pensions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5zjJNdhMiY

Quote :

Electric cars need to be part of an overall strategy. I have heard that idea pulled from the sky by people who then proceed to say that renewable energy and nuclear power are all a waste of time. If you follow their mantra, you still run cars from fossil fuels just indirectly.

That's true that electric is ultimately run off fossils but two things: The Quanity of fossils (look at that graph again) and the impetus for change to non-fossils. Carbon tax ? Tax breaks on research ?

johnfás wrote:

Electric cars need to be part of an overall strategy. I have heard that idea pulled from the sky by people who then proceed to say that renewable energy and nuclear power are all a waste of time. If you follow their mantra, you still run cars from fossil fuels just indirectly.

That's an important point.
The thing about electric cars, is that the batteries can be powered from renewable energy sources. That's happening in Denmark with wind power. It actually helps windpower systems work better, as the system needs "overcapacity" to allow for periods with no wind. The cars can mop that up.

Even if electric cars are initially run off carbon powered electricity, they can switch to renewables charged batteries when it becomes available.

This was the best thing I could find for an average of fuel efficiency in vehicles by continent and it clearly shows that the U.S. is way behind and needs a kick up the behind on this one.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_automobiles

It is clear what must happen Cactus. They are broke and must declare bankruptcy. Those getting pnsion cheques must be told to go and shite. It is called reality. The CEO gets paid 40 grand a day.

youngdan wrote:

It is clear what must happen Cactus. They are broke and must declare bankruptcy. Those getting pnsion cheques must be told to go and shite. It is called reality. The CEO gets paid 40 grand a day.

But youngdan they're too big to fail..

I don't believe there is any such thing as too big to fail. That does not however automatically mean that companies should always be left to fail when they encounter financial difficulty.

Perhaps we should cancel all public transport? I don't know of a country whose public transport system is actually financially viable, it is all subsidised by the State. However, obviously we should not cancel public transport, it is important to our State, as is the continued existence of certain industries, regardless of whether they suffer temporary economic difficulty. There are multiple reasons why industries should not be allowed to fail, public security, security of food supply, importance to the overall economy etc etc.

I think in this case GM is too big ... so it should fail. What might apply to interconnected and interdependent insurance and banking bets does not apply to an industry if it is a sink on a limited, imported natural resource. A chap on Bloomberg is adamant they fail and the presenter is taking your position johnfás that 2.5 million jobs could be at risk therefore it's "too big too fail". The guest is saying that if there's a bailout then unions will have to play ball and salaries will have to change. He's also taking a swing at the effort that Chevy went to to compete with the Prius (by leapfrogging it) - the electric pluggable Volt. Your man is saying that this is a car that will ultimately be run on coal and will cost you forty grand. Forty grand for a coal-powered car - no investors are going to look at it with a barge pole.

Shares
GM $3.08
Ford $1.84
Toyota $60
Honda $21

This investor is recommending Toyota and Honda over the others. He could be wrong though.

Anyone notice the US bailout is morphing ?

Auditor #9 wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Anyone notice the US bailout is morphing ?

TARP ?

No more buying of toxic assets.

Quote :

It's also clear that Paulson still doesn't have the answers ... and maybe not even a clue, which he unwittingly admitted today: "And to adequately reform our system, we must make sure we fully understand the nature of the problem which will not be possible until we are confident it is behind us," he said.

Huh? No wonder Paulson is counting down the days until he's "former Treasury Secretary."

Paulson is aiming some of it at American Express ? Are the Americans feeling unable to binge lately now they want a shot ?

Paulson looks brittle on tv - he's very wound up you'd wonder if he sleeps like a baby like John McCain.

johnfás wrote:

Perhaps we should cancel all public transport? I don't know of a country whose public transport system is actually financially viable, it is all subsidised by the State.

UK and NI I think run at a profit?

With regards bailing out the motor industry, no point unless there is a clear plan for recovery and new models that will sell. It takes years to design a new car so how long will the bailout last? Or perhaps other clear uses for the engineering.

It would make more sense to put more money into successful companies.

What ever happened to all the concerns about anti competitive government interference in industry? This crisis sure highlights what a lot of nonsense that rhetoric was.

Don't now if I heard this right, but on the news I could swear I heard that Obama was not attending the conference this weekend because he did not want 'to take ownership of the financial situation'.

Squire wrote:

Don't now if I heard this right, but on the news I could swear I heard that Obama was not attending the conference this weekend because he did not want 'to take ownership of the financial situation'.

Initially Obama said he wanted a place at the table. There was an acrimonious meeting with Bush. It looks as if he backed down.

cactus flower wrote:

Squire wrote:

Don't now if I heard this right, but on the news I could swear I heard that Obama was not attending the conference this weekend because he did not want 'to take ownership of the financial situation'.

Initially Obama said he wanted a place at the table. There was an acrimonious meeting with Bush. It looks as if he backed down.

Sign of the leadership to follow?

I have said it numerous times that I have seen this movie before with Deval Patrick. Same stupid chant, Yes we Can. 8It was only days when the smarter fools realised just how dumb they were.

Not only are we getting the same hacks from Clinton but it looks loke we are getting Clinton herself. CHANGE MY DIAPER.

Now Obama is resigning as senator Sunday so that when the Auto workers gets a good shafting up the whole he can say he wasn't there.

The thing is Obama is dumber than George w Bush.

Hello, is the picture becoming clear yet. What a laugh. 65 million donkeys here and that fool NDS crying all night

Hello, is the picture becoming clear yet. What a laugh. 65 million donkeys here and that fool NDS crying all night

Any link? I'll go and take him a hanky.

On the night of the election he was on P.ie admitting that tears were flowing down his face. Another fool was crying but at least she was a woman. Maybe he knew Hillary would get a job.