youngdan wrote:

Well why is Buffet and Gates giving their's to the UN then. As did Ted Turner.

I have read where the rothschilds are worth 5000 billion dollars. It is all about power. Now if you are talking about lads like Sean Quinn with 3 billion then that is a different story. He is a labourer who made money over 30 years. The real rich have accumilated wealth over hundreds of years

Quote :

They care about it passionately and ruthlessly, spend a lot of time and energy on holding it together for the next generation and are generally as tight as hell.

That's exactly how they have accumulated it.

If it were not for Quinn they would not have the jobs to begin with and they are not Quinn's concern. Quinn has to worry about Quinn and his companies.

Cactus. they accumulated wealth because they had the power. The Power is the prereqesate for the wealth and the wealth's function is to hold on to and expand the power.

No power and they end up in Siberia like the multi-billionaire that owned Yukos Oil

youngdan wrote:

If it were not for Quinn they would not have the jobs to begin with and they are not Quinn's concern. Quinn has to worry about Quinn and his companies.

Cactus. they accumulated wealth because they had the power. The Power is the prereqesate for the wealth and the wealth's function is to hold on to and expand the power.

No power and they end up in Siberia like the multi-billionaire that owned Yukos Oil

Power-wealth wealth-power - chicken and egg discussion here Some would have got wealth because they were in a position of power, others got wealth and used it to get power to keep their wealth. This in the main they do as a social class, rather than as individuals. They are able to influence legislation in order to make sure that they can keep their wealth and make more - like encouraging deregulation and low tax regimes for example.

Slim Buddha wrote:

I suppose I wasn't sure where to post this but myths may be contained in this so in here it goes.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

Zeitgeist updated. Another 2 hours but some of it is good. The malign nature of the World Bank, IMF and WTO is confirmed by John Perkins, author of "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" from 00.25 to 00.41. The stuff on the Venus Project, while worthy, is something I believe will remain relevant only to academics. However at 01.23 Jaques Fresco of the Venus Project says that America is inclined towards fascism. Cheneys behaviour could conform to that theory. Anyway have a look and see what you think.

I watched this the other night and was blown away by it. Is Peter Joseph reading my mind ? Technology is the thing that will help us most, not political decisions nor even revolutions. Tech has always transformed society radically and though maybe Lords of War have used it to devastating ends, nonetheless it is the most potent phenomenon that can transform society for good or evil. And this is because it is linked to creativity, problem-solving, constructive thinking, curiosity and many other postive aspects of us.

But in some people's minds it seems there may be a battle on for the future - I hold the opinion that Green or Eco thinking could be poised to flip either into more democracy or very suddenly into Fascism or Totalitarianism.

The tecnofix stuff came out of the blue entirely for me in that video and I was utterly pleasantly surprised. I haven't a huge awareness of Geothermal that he talks about but just the other day the Irish Times reported on Dublin's heating being potentially 15% powered by Geothermal. link

Mag-lev trains that travel faster around the world than the Concorde I don't know about ... Would the safety belts be good ? I like his line of thinking though in terms of travel, education, energy, projects instead of 'work' and Tom Paine The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.

- 13 Tom Paine quotes

Auditor #9 wrote:

You don't believe we're just accidents of the universe, created randomly over the millenia - that we're nothing more than a conglomeration of clever bits and pieces that fit together well, a bit more complex than the lower animals who are more complex than the lowest who are directly related to a soup of proteins and elements in themselves inanimate and the whole thing together just a lucky coincidence and accident of natural history ?

Well then what caused that accident of the universe? What began the process of random creations? What was the point at which it all began? At some stage there must be a bookend, a point at which the regress ceases. It is only logical and it is possible that this origin has Godly properties. I simply do not accept the thesis that we are an unsupervised universe. A God is necessary to complete the picture of all Creation.

What I would like to know, are there live gators living in the sewers of New York?



If God created the Universe who created God?

I hope this answers your question, Squire .

Quote :

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made. In Him was life, and that life was the light of men. That light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

If you decide you would like to go to a carol service this Christmas you will likely hear that passage from John.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

You don't believe we're just accidents of the universe, created randomly over the millenia - that we're nothing more than a conglomeration of clever bits and pieces that fit together well, a bit more complex than the lower animals who are more complex than the lowest who are directly related to a soup of proteins and elements in themselves inanimate and the whole thing together just a lucky coincidence and accident of natural history ?

Well then what caused that accident of the universe? What began the process of random creations? What was the point at which it all began? At some stage there must be a bookend, a point at which the regress ceases. It is only logical and it is possible that this origin has Godly properties. I simply do not accept the thesis that we are an unsupervised universe. A God is necessary to complete the picture of all Creation.

The origin of our causal universe does not require a cause, since causality itself is a property of the universe, and not necessarily of what preceded it.

johnfás wrote:

I hope this answers your question, Squire .

Quote :

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made. In Him was life, and that life was the light of men. That light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

If you decide you would like to go to a carol service this Christmas you will likely hear that passage from John.

I prefer to put my faith in chance. So much in this world and universe seems to rely on pure chance. For all our cunning and intelligence can any of us predict the weather on Christmas?

Carol Services are fine examples of a part of European culture. Great occasions especially if somewhere like St Paul's or Canterbury where you can appreciate the achievements of man.

Christmas is one of my most favourite times of the year .

We seem to be moving towards Christmas on alot of threads around these parts lately... people must be beginning to get into the spirit. Cause or effect of marketing I wonder.

ibis wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

You don't believe we're just accidents of the universe, created randomly over the millenia - that we're nothing more than a conglomeration of clever bits and pieces that fit together well, a bit more complex than the lower animals who are more complex than the lowest who are directly related to a soup of proteins and elements in themselves inanimate and the whole thing together just a lucky coincidence and accident of natural history ?

Well then what caused that accident of the universe? What began the process of random creations? What was the point at which it all began? At some stage there must be a bookend, a point at which the regress ceases. It is only logical and it is possible that this origin has Godly properties. I simply do not accept the thesis that we are an unsupervised universe. A God is necessary to complete the picture of all Creation.

The origin of our causal universe does not require a cause, since causality itself is a property of the universe, and not necessarily of what preceded it.

So this universe just came about by its own accord then?

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

ibis wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

You don't believe we're just accidents of the universe, created randomly over the millenia - that we're nothing more than a conglomeration of clever bits and pieces that fit together well, a bit more complex than the lower animals who are more complex than the lowest who are directly related to a soup of proteins and elements in themselves inanimate and the whole thing together just a lucky coincidence and accident of natural history ?

Well then what caused that accident of the universe? What began the process of random creations? What was the point at which it all began? At some stage there must be a bookend, a point at which the regress ceases. It is only logical and it is possible that this origin has Godly properties. I simply do not accept the thesis that we are an unsupervised universe. A God is necessary to complete the picture of all Creation.

The origin of our causal universe does not require a cause, since causality itself is a property of the universe, and not necessarily of what preceded it.

So this universe just came about by its own accord then?

It's a huge leap to connect a Creator or some Benevolent Force with a big bang. It could equally be malevolent you know - it has all the signs of it sometimes.

Auditor #9 wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

ibis wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

You don't believe we're just accidents of the universe, created randomly over the millenia - that we're nothing more than a conglomeration of clever bits and pieces that fit together well, a bit more complex than the lower animals who are more complex than the lowest who are directly related to a soup of proteins and elements in themselves inanimate and the whole thing together just a lucky coincidence and accident of natural history ?

Well then what caused that accident of the universe? What began the process of random creations? What was the point at which it all began? At some stage there must be a bookend, a point at which the regress ceases. It is only logical and it is possible that this origin has Godly properties. I simply do not accept the thesis that we are an unsupervised universe. A God is necessary to complete the picture of all Creation.

The origin of our causal universe does not require a cause, since causality itself is a property of the universe, and not necessarily of what preceded it.

So this universe just came about by its own accord then?

It's a huge leap to connect a Creator or some Benevolent Force with a big bang. It could equally be malevolent you know - it has all the signs of it sometimes.

It is a huge leap to connect, but that is what I do. You could call it a leap of faith. As to the nature of the Creator, it is also in my faith that they are benevolent. For all the evil that there is in the world, I believe that there is just as much, if not more, good in it.