Michael Hennigan's Finfacts has been a shining light of economic realism through the dark night of obfuscation. Today he has let rip at a number of Irish politicians in a way that has lead me to open this thread in the Politics and not the Economic Forum. He excoriates Harney, the Greens and McGrath and says they are finished with the electorate whether they stay or go.

Irish Economy: Political disarray, panic, incompetence, a credibility gap and five-star "cradle to grave" socialism By Michael Hennigan, Founder and Editor of Finfacts
Oct 21, 2008 - 7:28:49 AM

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As the Irish economy faces a number of years of economic uncertainty, the political disarray at government level in the aftermath of a Budget that reflected monumental incompetence, is a harbinger of much more chaos to come. The credibility gap between the politicians in power and people widens as massaged financial forecasts only delay further days of reckoning ahead.

Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan said last Tuesday that he expects the economy to shrink by 1.5% next year, as measured by GNP, with GDP contracting by 0.75%. He said the Government is planning on a Budget deficit of 6.5% of GDP in 2009. On Friday, Goodbody Stockbrokers forecast that the economy will contract by as much as 4% in 2009 and that the Budget deficit was likely to breach 8% of GDP.

Who has a reason to be optimistic?

Having slammed anyone who dared question the house of cards that had been built on a construction boom, the political leadership expected its new mantra of responsibility to be swallowed hook, line and sinker, without a whimper. So the Budget date was brought forward to give the illusion of action but while taxes and benefit cuts were the easy options to target, there was nothing that even resembled reform of the huge public spending machine. They even had the neck to provide for additional spending in 2009, of more than 12% in the Oireachtas budget.

At the centre of the controversy about medical entitlement for over 70's is Health Minister Mary Harney and she more than any senior politician illustrates the gap between the governing class and the governed. Despite her promotion of markets and free enterprise in the past, Harney has been on the public payroll all her adult life. If she retires at the next general election, which has to be held by mid-2012, she will have an annual pension of about €130,000, at 59, indexed to future ministerial pay rises. In addition, she would get a lump sum severance payment of about €70,000. Having been a family beneficiary of land allocation in West Dublin, by a State agency known as the Land Commission, her situation could be termed an illustration of five-star "cradle to grave" socialism.

So Harney taking a pay cut of 10% with her ministerial colleagues, while the system of feather-bedding continues, with ministers having a 120-strong group of constituency 'helpers" on the public payroll and so much more, cuts no ice - - 35 ministers in a country of 4.2 million??

99 paid officer positions in a parliament of 216 - - Tammany Hall here we come!!

More than 1 million Irish private sector workers have no occupational pension.

As in the self-styled socialist paradises of the past, five-star "cradle to grave" socialism today in Ireland, is only for the Insiders.

As for the current political turmoil, the so-called "independent" TD Finian McGrath, who had sold his vote to Fianna Fáil for five years of job security, is now taking a "principled" stand on medical cards- - because he fears getting the boot at the next election.

"What influenced me was listening to people and talking to constituents for five hours on Saturday morning. This was also the way my election workers wanted to go. I did change ground," McGrath told the Irish Times. He is also reported to have read out a list of the projects that had been completed in his constituency as a result of his deal with Fianna Fáil.

Shouldn't every constituency have such a Messiah! Whoever thought gombeenism had been buried during the days of the Celtic Tiger!

The Sunday Business Post's Political Editor Pat Leahy reported in 2006 that McGrath had returned from Cuba, denying that it was a repressive dictatorship.

‘‘No, I’d dispute that,” he said and added,"it’s a different kind of democracy to Ireland.”

Whatever about the Cuban brand, where there is no opposition, the Irish version is propped up by the primacy of self-interest over principle and like McGrath, teachers dominate parliamentary representation.

The Green Party's John Gormley in 2007 - - "On Planet Bertie you can sign blank cheques – because everyone does it, apparently. On Planet Bertie you can spend the average industrial wage on make-up. On Planet Bertie you can get loans from people – that you don't have to pay back. On Planet Bertie you can save €50,000 – without a bank account. And on Planet Bertie, climate change doesn't exist. On Planet Bertie there's a strange cult called Fianna Fáil, a type of religion without vision or values; and every year in August they go on their annual pilgrimage to one of their sacred sites, the tent at the Galway races, where they pay homage to their gods and the gods bestow them with gifts for doing their bidding. Oh yes, it's a strange place Planet Bertie. So strange and so alien to our sensibilities, that it's a planet that we Greens would like to avoid. For let there be no doubt, we want Fianna Fáil and the PDs out of Government."

Fianna Fáil is happy to have support from the "independents" and niche parties such as the PDs in the past, who were impotent in terms of impact on policy, but were loud cheerleaders for tax cuts and now the Green Party, who are thrown a few baubles such as spending on cycle paths but it also has no impact on policymaking.

The two Green ministers had approved the Budget but like Finian McGrath are now trying to sail with the wind.

McGrath was neither in office or power, while Green Party leader John Gormley is in office without power.

Gormley will be faced with a choice in 2009 as the option of being for and against harsh measures will not wash. The choice will be to stick with the Faustian bargain with the Fianna Fáil of Planet Bertie (a "strange cult called Fianna Fáil, a type of religion without vision or values" - - Gormley in Feb 2007), or cut and run, while hoping for some salvation from a sullen electorate. The Devil is however, likely to be the one having the last laugh!

Is Hennigan right that the Fianna Fail partners will pay a serious political price, or will the tradition of gombeen politics live on?

It's just another rant. If he reckons the budget did not cut the ice then he should say that instead of attacking Harney's parents having benefitted from state social programmes. I find it incredibly uninformative and boring. The only interesting bits are the Land Commission stuff and McGrath's Cuba comments which can be used for pub banter, slagging and political abuse.

Yes Hennigan is another one on another rant. Just listening to Dempsey on Mary Wilson and he told the airwaves that they hadn't expected there to be such a public outcry about the medical card policy. Is he serious ?? I'll translate that for you: "we'll do whatever we can get away with".

There are more than Hennigan ranting and maybe that's the whole point - when the heat is gone and the limbs are tired then we will just accept the little battle-spoils we get, whether it is a higher threshold or some other compromise. Then we'll be happy with what we got and the ranting will be over.

Quote :

Is Hennigan right that the Fianna Fail partners will pay a serious political price, or will the tradition of gombeen politics live on?

You betcha - on both counts.

He's right that the Greens are twiddling with inessentials at the edges of government policy. However, that will be the case as long as the Greens are a minor party, in whatever coalition, and the chance of the Greens being a major party this side of eco-armageddon is frankly zero.

His tone in the article is a bit strident but his points are valid imo. Finfacts has been a decent source of news although it could always do better. I'd rate the coverage on finfacts to be broader, more detailed and insightful than anything in the mainstream Irish media.

It doesn't really matter if his style is now deemed to be a rant or somehow unpatriotic. He would be drowned out by many more ordinary and decent hard working people on a variety of issues.

rockyracoon wrote:

His tone in the article is a bit strident but his points are valid imo. Finfacts has been a decent source of news although it could always do better. I'd rate the coverage on finfacts to be broader, more detailed and insightful than anything in the mainstream Irish media.

It doesn't really matter if his style is now deemed to be a rant or somehow unpatriotic. He would be drowned out by many more ordinary and decent hard working people on a variety of issues.

It think its the frustration and exasperation of someone who has been watching a very slow train wreck over a period of years, shouting look! look! stop! stop! the whole time. Now it has happened he can't warn or advise any more, he is just looking at the carnage and feeling very angry. Rants are necessary sometimes.

Is what has happened politically here that the world has changed, and Fianna Fail hasn't ? Or has Fianna Fail really lost touch with its broad church constituency and settled for being the (€25,000 a head) Plate Dinner Party ?

http://www.village.ie/Politics/Tribunals/It_gets_worse/

cactus flower wrote:

rockyracoon wrote:

His tone in the article is a bit strident but his points are valid imo. Finfacts has been a decent source of news although it could always do better. I'd rate the coverage on finfacts to be broader, more detailed and insightful than anything in the mainstream Irish media.

It doesn't really matter if his style is now deemed to be a rant or somehow unpatriotic. He would be drowned out by many more ordinary and decent hard working people on a variety of issues.

It think its the frustration and exasperation of someone who has been watching a very slow train wreck over a period of years, shouting look! look! stop! stop! the whole time. Now it has happened he can't warn or advise any more, he is just looking at the carnage and feeling very angry. Rants are necessary sometimes.

Is what has happened politically here that the world has changed, and Fianna Fail hasn't ? Or has Fianna Fail really lost touch with its broad church constituency and settled for being the (€25,000 a head) Plate Dinner Party ?

http://www.village.ie/Politics/Tribunals/It_gets_worse/

Nah. They had umpteen bad things to put into a Budget, didn't know what would upset people the most, so they pulled it forward away from next year's locals to give themselves time to recover from the worst bits. We'll see whether they're successful next year.

Finfacts does report some interesting stuff

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1015049.shtml

Slim Buddha wrote:

Finfacts does report some interesting stuff

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1015049.shtml

What strikes me is that Trim, Muff and Kinnegad are not exactly the best located development sites in Ireland. Kinsealy may account for more, depending on its capacity.
Vast amounts of money were spent on marginal unserviced sites in the last three years.

Yes it could be termed a rant or an expression of outrage but some people make a very good living out of just producing one rant a week!

Generally, in writing economics related articles, I always try to support my arguments with facts e.g.

http://www.finfacts.com/irishfinancenews/article_1014898.shtml

In this case it was a reaction to a Budget which produced an annual increase of 12% for the Oireachtas - 61% over 5 years; protections for politicians whose negligence/incompetence/short term political interest, will wreak havoc on the lives of thousands of people and the gombeenism of what are termed "independents." I put small niche parties like the PDs and the GP in the same boat, in their role of perpetuating almost permanent rule by FF.

The charge of "attacking" Harney's parents is bs.

Harney has made a career on promoting Ireland as being closer to "Boston than Berlin," but it's legitimate to point out that she is personally closer to Berlin.

She with the other politicians took the biggest public sector pay rises since 1997 and in contrast with the majority of private sector workers, who have no occupational pensions, Harney can remain in clover on a big pension while still in her 50's.

The main beneficiaries of State socialism in Ireland are farmers and it's not a recent story. Even before the bonanza of land rezoning, allocations for the Land Commission dwarfed support for poor urban dwellers.

http://www.finfacts.com/irishfinancenews/article_1014307.shtml

Finally, I single Harney out because I view her as the biggest Irish political failure of her generation.

She lost her nerve after the experience of the 1997 election when soundbites on public sector reform, created confusion and loss of support. The PDs then became an impotent cheerleader of FF crony capitalism complete with unnecessary tax breaks for a construction boom, benchmarking - - with "I must do better" joke aspirations, back-of-the-envelope decentralisation and the fantasy that the free lunch had been invented while our economy, which was overwhelmingly dependent on US firms, was the "envy of the world."

MichaelHennigan wrote:

Yes it could be termed a rant or an expression of outrage but some people make a very good living out of just producing one rant a week!

Generally, in writing economics related articles, I always try to support my arguments with facts e.g.

http://www.finfacts.com/irishfinancenews/article_1014898.shtml

In this case it was a reaction to a Budget which produced an annual increase of 12% for the Oireachtas - 61% over 5 years; protections for politicians whose negligence/incompetence/short term political interest, will wreak havoc on the lives of thousands of people and the gombeenism of what are termed "independents." I put small niche parties like the PDs and the GP in the same boat, in their role of perpetuating almost permanent rule by FF.

The charge of "attacking" Harney's parents is bs.

Harney has made a career on promoting Ireland as being closer to "Boston than Berlin," but it's legitimate to point out that she is personally closer to Berlin.

She with the other politicians took the biggest public sector pay rises since 1997 and in contrast with the majority of private sector workers, who have no occupational pensions, Harney can remain in clover on a big pension while still in her 50's.

The main beneficiaries of State socialism in Ireland are farmers and it's not a recent story. Even before the bonanza of land rezoning, allocations for the Land Commission dwarfed support for poor urban dwellers.

http://www.finfacts.com/irishfinancenews/article_1014307.shtml

Finally, I single Harney out because I view her as the biggest Irish political failure of her generation.

She lost her nerve after the experience of the 1997 election when soundbites on public sector reform, created confusion and loss of support. The PDs then became an impotent cheerleader of FF crony capitalism complete with unnecessary tax breaks for a construction boom, benchmarking - - with "I must do better" joke aspirations, back-of-the-envelope decentralisation and the fantasy that the free lunch had been invented while our economy, which was overwhelmingly dependent on US firms, was the "envy of the world."

I have to say I agree with almost all of this and particularly the part concerning Harney. She is an absolute failure as a politician. She destroyed her own party through inept leadership, displayed no individual vision anywhere she has been and is part of the largest ongoing political conflict of interest in the country. Yet people cannot see that, somehow. She is a long time past her sell-by date politically.

MichaelHennigan wrote:

Yes it could be termed a rant or an expression of outrage but some people make a very good living out of just producing one rant a week!

Generally, in writing economics related articles, I always try to support my arguments with facts e.g.

http://www.finfacts.com/irishfinancenews/article_1014898.shtml

In this case it was a reaction to a Budget which produced an annual increase of 12% for the Oireachtas - 61% over 5 years; protections for politicians whose negligence/incompetence/short term political interest, will wreak havoc on the lives of thousands of people and the gombeenism of what are termed "independents." I put small niche parties like the PDs and the GP in the same boat, in their role of perpetuating almost permanent rule by FF.

The charge of "attacking" Harney's parents is bs.

Harney has made a career on promoting Ireland as being closer to "Boston than Berlin," but it's legitimate to point out that she is personally closer to Berlin.

She with the other politicians took the biggest public sector pay rises since 1997 and in contrast with the majority of private sector workers, who have no occupational pensions, Harney can remain in clover on a big pension while still in her 50's.

The main beneficiaries of State socialism in Ireland are farmers and it's not a recent story. Even before the bonanza of land rezoning, allocations for the Land Commission dwarfed support for poor urban dwellers.

http://www.finfacts.com/irishfinancenews/article_1014307.shtml

Finally, I single Harney out because I view her as the biggest Irish political failure of her generation.

She lost her nerve after the experience of the 1997 election when soundbites on public sector reform, created confusion and loss of support. The PDs then became an impotent cheerleader of FF crony capitalism complete with unnecessary tax breaks for a construction boom, benchmarking - - with "I must do better" joke aspirations, back-of-the-envelope decentralisation and the fantasy that the free lunch had been invented while our economy, which was overwhelmingly dependent on US firms, was the "envy of the world."

Well said Michael. Welcome aboard by the way!

MichaelHennigan wrote:

Yes it could be termed a rant or an expression of outrage but some people make a very good living out of just producing one rant a week!

Generally, in writing economics related articles, I always try to support my arguments with facts e.g.
http://www.finfacts.com/irishfinancenews/article_1014898.shtml

Welcome!

Joe Carey the young FG TD for Clare was ranting on the Six One news this week too as students assembled in Coláiste Mhuire in Ennis to lecture Timmy Dooley and Tony Killeen - FF TDs for Clare - on the education cuts. Did ye see it? Dooley stood up and said he could make no promises about going back on the cuts. Joe Carey ranted that we have to "get this crowd out" which is how a lot of people might be feeling but it just seems to shore-up the opinions of FFers. Even though the country will soon be up to its neck in it, people on the radio around here are just giving the old stock answer: "Sher what would the Opposition have done differently?" Which is a fair question I suppose if taken on board by those in power and especially their supporters. It looks like this budget was calculated to generate more heat than light with these vicious cuts that have come very very suddenly. It's going to be interesting next week with the education cuts - I've a feeling (or a hope) that the Greens will walk but I haven't studied this too much, it's coming from my gut only.

I don't think an election now would help anything though - could it be the perfect opportunity for people to learn about where and how money is being spent and how they can influence that and to address that question seriously about what an opposition can do. In your article you say the bank loans to developers reach upwards to 100 billion - this is what's strangling the banking system and I wouldn't be surprised if it ceased up soon like an engine out of oil. There will have to be a firesale or something like was had this week with building equiptment where people came from all around Europe to buy Irish plant at knockdown prices. This will have to happen with houses too and then we might see some ranting - houses which were 700k going for 200k. Maybe then we'll see people genuinely ask what and who they're working for.

Welcome seconded, Michael. If you drop back later, I expect Auditor #9 will rustle you up some breakfast in the Doolin Breakfast Bar here.

Quote :

In this case it was a reaction to a Budget which produced an annual increase of 12% for the Oireachtas - 61% over 5 years; protections for politicians whose negligence/incompetence/short term political interest, will wreak havoc on the lives of thousands of people and the gombeenism of what are termed "independents." I put small niche parties like the PDs and the GP in the same boat, in their role of perpetuating almost permanent rule by FF.

With very few exceptions, yourself obviously being one , the Press here imo have their own culpability in all this. Government was let away with murder in the way they announced a patriotic 10% cut, with no-one looking beyond that to the disgraceful levels of remuneration they have voted themselves in the last 2-3 years.

Quote :

The charge of "attacking" Harney's parents is bs.
Harney has made a career on promoting Ireland as being closer to "Boston than Berlin," but it's legitimate to point out that she is personally closer to Berlin.

She with the other politicians took the biggest public sector pay rises since 1997 and in contrast with the majority of private sector workers, who have no occupational pensions, Harney can remain in clover on a big pension while still in her 50's.

I'm not so convinced by this. There is plenty of graft in the US. Harney's co-location and her other initiatives are on track to giving us health services that are closer to Boston - twice as expensive and less effective than the ones we have now.

Quote :

The main beneficiaries of State socialism in Ireland are farmers and it's not a recent story. Even before the bonanza of land rezoning, allocations for the Land Commission dwarfed support for poor urban dwellers.

http://www.finfacts.com/irishfinancenews/article_1014307.shtml

I'll have to read your article here. If you look at the situation Iceland is in and the general global uncertainty, imo Ireland should be going for food security/self sufficiency, as a matter of urgent priority. I'm not sure that we would be better off with the ranch farm model: Irish farmers know their land and how to get the best out of it.

Quote :

Finally, I single Harney out because I view her as the biggest Irish political failure of her generation.

She lost her nerve after the experience of the 1997 election when soundbites on public sector reform, created confusion and loss of support. The PDs then became an impotent cheerleader of FF crony capitalism complete with unnecessary tax breaks for a construction boom, benchmarking - - with "I must do better" joke aspirations, back-of-the-envelope decentralisation and the fantasy that the free lunch had been invented while our economy, which was overwhelmingly dependent on US firms, was the "envy of the world."

Agreed, an unmitigated political and economic disaster.

Sorry, Michael, only afterwards noticed that it was your first post. You are very welcome.

eoinmn wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

There is plenty of graft in the US. Harney's co-location and her other initiatives are on track to giving us health services that are closer to Boston - twice as expensive and less effective than the ones we have now.

I agree CF. Having been a patient in German and Irish hospitals, I wish our health miniter was closer to Berlin than Boston!
Now, interestingly private hospitals play a huge role in Germany, but from a patients perspective they are indinguishable from public ones in terms of cost. Your health insurance covers it all. Anyway, I'm going off topic now.

Me too. I think they have universal health insurance in Germany, which means everyone can go private. I found the GP system there brilliant: they have far more GPs per capita than we do.

cactus flower wrote:

Me too. I think they have universal health insurance in Germany, which means everyone can go private. I found the GP system there brilliant: they have far more GPs per capita than we do.

Funnily, I couldn't find a GP when I wanted one over there. I think they do exist but I couldn't find one. I was the wide eyed bumbling foreign student, I suppose. I asked my colleagues at work but they seemed to be unfamiliar with the concept of general doctors. So I went to the nearest doctor. She did an ultrasound of my heart and an ECG on me. Then told me there was nothing wrong with me. It was only after these tests she let me explain to her I had long term kidney problems. And only then she told me she was a heart specialist! Then she told me where I could find a kidney specialist.
So I never did find my GP.

Another friend of mine hurt her arm. She asked around where she should go and was advised to go to a Frauartzt (literally "Female Doctor"). Turns out, that is a gynocologist!

The Greens seem to have settled in for the duration. When the next General Election comes, a vote for a Green must be viewed as a vote for whoever wins the election. Is it worth bothering, for a flashy bike?