Cactus' and Clareman51's eco-cottages

This is a spin-off from the Budget Tips thread where we seem to have got hung up in home heating and insulation technology instead of tips on stalking game and foraging for mushrooms and fishing with a home-made spear.

So maybe we could get a few green, eco house-building tips here together for the likes of TheBear who is doing up the new house. Perhaps we could include prices and details of materials and how-tos as well - how the feck do you insulate an attic? Is it as simple as buying a roll of irritating glass fibre and squashing it down between the rafters in your attic? What are the alternatives? Can you use a load of old jumpers or your collection of Pla the Irish Times to keep the heat in? What's the best way of doing it?

What about suspended wooden floors and weeping walls? What's your budget for that?

In the case of cactus and clareman51 above - if they could would they share details of their projects with us ? And let Duncan Stewart eat your hat off. Let the upturn start here!

Did you have to get the sheep's wool treated (it would be rather oily and smelly otherwise) or did you buy it washed and ready to go, cactus? Farmers can hardly give away wool these last few years...

Great idea to copy those posts, Audi.

And I do think the insulation is that easy - though the wool is probably more sustainable, probably Irish and probably more snuggly than that horrid yellow stuff which we have.

Well if anyone has the time and a few bob this weekend, and you haven't already done it, this kind of draught excluder and some anti-draught strips around the external doors would make your cottage much cosier for not much money.

There are dozens of tips, some are expensive, and others are cheap. At least 40% of heat disappears through the roof, with windows,doors and the chimney mostly accounting for the balance. Standard insulation is fine for the roof, but don't forget to seal around the trap door, as it acts as a funnel for the hot air to escape. If there are odd-shaped holes around external door frames and windows, a can of expanding foam can be bought from most DIY/plumber suppliers. Just spray into the hole, let it expand, and trim off excess with Stanley knife.
Turn off everything on standby every night, unplug phone chargers, make sure freezer and fridge is full, even if large bottles of tap water have to be stored, as they will run more efficiently.
I put light sensors in the kid's closets so that the lights can't be accidentally left on all day or weekend.
There are dozens more ideas, and being anally retentive, I make lists and timescales. It works after a fashion.
PS I'm not a councillor, thank God, though I have been put under pressure to run. My life would not be my own if I was.

This yoke is the ultimate in home building even though we're talking about low-budget stuff. There may be some principles or ideas you could follow in these things though.

Quote :

On Tuesday the 15th of March a PASSIVE-HOUSE, a house that does not need to be heated, was built a few miles outside of Galway. It is the brain child of Lars Pettersson of Galway based Scandinavian Homes Ltd. It is believed to be the worlds first standardized and factory made passive house.

This house will be part of Sustainable Irelands low energy conference “See the Light 2005 - Solar Profits for New Buildings” being held in Galway this summer. It will also be made available for the public to visit to experience the almost unbelievable concept of a house without heat.

Complete AIR-TIGHTNESS is one of the keys to succeed with a passive house. Careful sealing of the age-proof vapor -barrier is done using special butul-rubber seal strips. The seal must be complete and the big challenge is to achieve complete air-tightness between the ground-floor and the first floor.

The house requires practically no heating at all. There is only one 900w electric heater built in to the Temovex 750 heat-recovery ventilation unit. In addition to this there are water pipes laid in the foundation under the tiled floors in the bath and utility rooms.

This floor-heat comes from the solar collectors on the south-facing roof. A total of 6.3m2 of solar-collectors by Solaris of Macroom, Co. Cork take care of most of the hot-water requirements.

http://www.scanhome.ie/passive/pressrelease1.php

Amazing idea, the passive house. Costs 100 euro a year to heat...

Kate P wrote:

Did you have to get the sheep's wool treated (it would be rather oily and smelly otherwise) or did you buy it washed and ready to go, cactus? Farmers can hardly give away wool these last few years...

Great idea to copy those posts, Audi.

And I do think the insulation is that easy - though the wool is probably more sustainable, probably Irish and probably more snuggly than that horrid yellow stuff which we have.

Yes, Its washed and treated. Its easy to spread in the attic, no nasty glass or rock wool fibres to get under the skin. Not sure if its Irish though.

As Audi mentioned, we're doing up the house at the moment. Wrt attic insulation, we're actually putting the insulation into the rafters (the roof), rather than the joists (the ceiling of the floor below), as this means that the heat will be kept in the attic, rather than having a freezing cold attic if we decide to convert it.

All of the external walls are being insulated and dry-lined, there'll be curtains with thick lining put on all the windows, and I'm going to lag the bejaysus out of the water tank. (There's no lagging at all on it at the moment, which really surprised me. I'd never seen an entirely uninsulated water tank before.)

I'm humming and hawing about solar panels. The most recent quote is €4421 after grant from Alternative Energy Ireland, which (to me) is a scary amount of money to spend on something, esp when we've just splashed out on a house. Any helpful encouragement or advice warmly welcomed!

TheBear wrote:

As Audi mentioned, we're doing up the house at the moment. Wrt attic insulation, we're actually putting the insulation into the rafters (the roof), rather than the joists (the ceiling of the floor below), as this means that the heat will be kept in the attic, rather than having a freezing cold attic if we decide to convert it.

All of the external walls are being insulated and dry-lined, there'll be curtains with thick lining put on all the windows, and I'm going to lag the bejaysus out of the water tank. (There's no lagging at all on it at the moment, which really surprised me. I'd never seen an entirely uninsulated water tank before.)

I'm humming and hawing about solar panels. The most recent quote is €4421 after grant from Alternative Energy Ireland, which (to me) is a scary amount of money to spend on something, esp when we've just splashed out on a house. Any helpful encouragement or advice warmly welcomed!

4400 quid sounds a lot for solar panels - is it just water heating or electricity? I'd be very scabby and find a unit for 2 grand then get a plumber to install it, but that's me. You could always do the low-tech stuff first, accumulate a bit of your savings over the winter and splash out next year or indeed the year after that.

If you're going to lose 40% of your heat through your attic then it might be best to get that over with and you'd imagine you'll save a bit. Are you doing it yourselves? Dry-lining the walls is not so costly either (about 30 quid a sheet of 8' x 4' kingspan stuff with an inch of insulation at the back) and you could do it yourself if you put your mind to it. You could use expanding foam or the normal glue to stick it on the walls but it's worth sealing it well. Pink grip glue is something mighty (the expanding foam works just as well) But don't take that advice as holy scripture just a guidline - always get professional advice first.

Insulating the ceiling of the attic is the right idea if you have an electric shower - it takes less electricity to heat the water up because it's already warm from your houses ambient temperature.

Solar panels sound great but maybe they could wait a while ?

I agree with Auditor #9 and would maximise spending on insulation and - just as important - draught proofing - while you are doing works. Insulating under floors, particularly if you have boards up, is also well worth it. Go over the recommendation if anything for roof insulation.

When your draught proofing, remember that you do need ventilation as well (it can be a matter of life and death) and never block a vent up.

If you are painting and decorating, that means you are bringing gallons of liquid into the house. When the work is finished and the plaster is properly dry, bring a dehumidifier in and dry the place out really well. It will cut down your bills for the first couple of years and make the house much cosier.

If you have an open fire, that is a big heat loss. I love open fires but my husband has finally convinced me that we should fit a closable stove into the hearth as it is much, much more energy efficient and will stop draughts when there is no fire lit.

Depending on the size of your tank, you should be able to get a solar panel with a photovoltaic panel to power the pump for less than 3,000 euro.

A good small stove can be bought for as little as 400 quid and you'd even get a better second-hand one for that. Open fires are fashion items - they are the stilletos of domestic energy consumption. A stove might look like something out of Laura Engels Wilder's World but be under no illusion they are far better than the open fire.

Seriously, if you are into it then a plumber can connect that stove to your central heating - be it oil or gas fired or whatever - and though you might need 2k in your pocket or slightly more to do that (although with the number of unemployed plumbers that should be around... ) giving you a dual system like a Hybrid Car. Lighting the stove in one room can thus contribute to heating the whole house.

If you do decide to convert the attic, there is sound insulation to put between the joists that looks like the standard insulation but it keeps the sound down. I put it into my new place and it does help.

I also have a stove and a gas fire back to back. Before they were fitted, the draught up the chimney flues was immense. No problem now.

Regarding the dehumidifier, try to avoid using after the skirting and architrave are fitted, particularly if it is deal which holds a lot of moisture. All the joints, corners, etc would be inclined to "pop", shrink away from walls and adjoining timber. There is nothing worse than to see nice paintwork spoiled with shrinkage cracks.

Auditor #9 wrote:

4400 quid sounds a lot for solar panels - is it just water heating or electricity? I'd be very scabby and find a unit for 2 grand then get a plumber to install it, but that's me. You could always do the low-tech stuff first, accumulate a bit of your savings over the winter and splash out next year or indeed the year after that.

If you're going to lose 40% of your heat through your attic then it might be best to get that over with and you'd imagine you'll save a bit. Are you doing it yourselves? Dry-lining the walls is not so costly either (about 30 quid a sheet of 8' x 4' kingspan stuff with an inch of insulation at the back) and you could do it yourself if you put your mind to it. You could use expanding foam or the normal glue to stick it on the walls but it's worth sealing it well. Pink grip glue is something mighty (the expanding foam works just as well) But don't take that advice as holy scripture just a guidline - always get professional advice first.

Insulating the ceiling of the attic is the right idea if you have an electric shower - it takes less electricity to heat the water up because it's already warm from your houses ambient temperature.

Solar panels sound great but maybe they could wait a while ?

I think that's actually the cheapest quote I've got for the solar panels. On balance, I may leave it for a year or so, settle in to the new place, and then see how the finances are.

We're getting the insulating dry-lining sheets, alright. Due to the fact that neither me or the boyf are particularly handy, we're getting someone in to do all of that (other than the painting). There's rewiring to be done at the same time, so we're getting the same guys to do the lot of it.

No open fire (I'd be buying a stove if there was one); a gas fire has been put in the fireplace. I'm hoping that there aren't the same problems re draughts with a gas fire. (Terribly ignorant, I know, but I've only ever lived places with electric or open fires.)

tonys wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

500 million = 2,500 houses ? Nothing really. If it worked and gave people mortgages who wouldn't be eligible for a bank mortgage it would be wrong. Looks like a gimmic and the whole thinking of it is wrong and sub prime.

Its the last time young people should be buying. A lot of people are going to be losing their jobs.

That would be the point of my post.
It’s not sub prime, only people who would qualify for a bank loan under normal conditions will get these loans. It won’t sell a lot of houses but as most of these houses are already available at cost it will give people who can afford it a chance to get a house at a good price if that’s what they want to do.

It's a pity it's only for new builds I think.

I have a job in a video shop, my girlfriend works in Tescos, she's pregnant, we're living at her parents place at the moment but we'd like to have our own place. I am a very resourceful chap and I reckon I could build my very own eco-cottage out a bit of the road for 120 - 150,000k. Would we be approved for a loan do you think?

Gas fires have to be sealed to the flues to prevent gas build up if there is a fault or leak, so there should be no draught. If this is a first time connection to gas, then a cert will have to be filled out by the installer, and a gas inspector will call to see that everything is fitted correctly, a very good safety measure.

.

Auditor #9 wrote:

tonys wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

500 million = 2,500 houses ? Nothing really. If it worked and gave people mortgages who wouldn't be eligible for a bank mortgage it would be wrong. Looks like a gimmic and the whole thinking of it is wrong and sub prime.

Its the last time young people should be buying. A lot of people are going to be losing their jobs.

That would be the point of my post.
It’s not sub prime, only people who would qualify for a bank loan under normal conditions will get these loans. It won’t sell a lot of houses but as most of these houses are already available at cost it will give people who can afford it a chance to get a house at a good price if that’s what they want to do.

It's a pity it's only for new builds I think.

I have a job in a video shop, my girlfriend works in Tescos, she's pregnant, we're living at her parents place at the moment but we'd like to have our own place. I am a very resourceful chap and I reckon I could build my very own eco-cottage out a bit of the road for 120 - 150,000k. Would we be approved for a loan do you think?

Congratulations Auditor #9 When is the happy day? I think it has to be a new house, and Home Bond certified - that might rule out self build.

cactus flower wrote:

.

Auditor #9 wrote:

tonys wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

500 million = 2,500 houses ? Nothing really. If it worked and gave people mortgages who wouldn't be eligible for a bank mortgage it would be wrong. Looks like a gimmic and the whole thinking of it is wrong and sub prime.

Its the last time young people should be buying. A lot of people are going to be losing their jobs.

That would be the point of my post.
It’s not sub prime, only people who would qualify for a bank loan under normal conditions will get these loans. It won’t sell a lot of houses but as most of these houses are already available at cost it will give people who can afford it a chance to get a house at a good price if that’s what they want to do.

It's a pity it's only for new builds I think.

I have a job in a video shop, my girlfriend works in Tescos, she's pregnant, we're living at her parents place at the moment but we'd like to have our own place. I am a very resourceful chap and I reckon I could build my very own eco-cottage out a bit of the road for 120 - 150,000k. Would we be approved for a loan do you think?

Congratulations Auditor #9 When is the happy day? I think it has to be a new house, and Home Bond certified - that might rule out self build.

It's not my fault if she's up the pole - she got me drunk while I should have been watching Bloomberg one night with Katherine Yang from Hong Kong - one of my favourites besides Bernard Lo, also from Hong Kong. But I took that drink - probbly had rohiptenol in it, or worse, viagra. This is the lesson: always go with your first instincts no matter how socially unacceptable (geeky) it looks.

What's Home Bond certified? It's not a building material I recognise.

Home Bond is an insurance warranty scheme over newly built houses. Presumably the point is that any property built must have one and to have one you have to be a certified builder. Don't know anything about them - just see them in conveyancing files - boring!

I'm certified alright.

Auditor #9 wrote:

I'm certified alright.

Most housebuilders would be part of Homebond - it goes further than Building Regulations, and unlike the Building Regulations, is actually inspected.
I am only guessing this, but I think the only way of getting a Homebond cert for a self build would be if a Homebond contractor took you on as a sub-contractor (as a favour or at a price) and if you built to Homebond standards ( a good thing anyway). Should this be in the eco-cottage thread do you think?

I was passing a field the other day with a chimney in it at least I think it was a chimney and it had a For Sale sign sticking out of it - are you telling me that I need to be Duncan friggin Stewart in order to buy that plot and rebuild than chimbly? How many videos do I have to flog in order to do that ?!

Auditor #9 wrote:

I was passing a field the other day with a chimney in it at least I think it was a chimney and it had a For Sale sign sticking out of it - are you telling me that I need to be Duncan friggin Stewart in order to buy that plot and rebuild than chimbly? How many videos do I have to flog in order to do that ?!

Planning permission first Auditor #9. Are you sure that the chimbly was not an unauthorised development?

cactus flower wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

I was passing a field the other day with a chimney in it at least I think it was a chimney and it had a For Sale sign sticking out of it - are you telling me that I need to be Duncan friggin Stewart in order to buy that plot and rebuild than chimbly? How many videos do I have to flog in order to do that ?!

Planning permission first Auditor #9. Are you sure that the chimbly was not an unauthorised development?

The authorities that were there before The Famine are gone now, I think

Auditor #9 wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

I was passing a field the other day with a chimney in it at least I think it was a chimney and it had a For Sale sign sticking out of it - are you telling me that I need to be Duncan friggin Stewart in order to buy that plot and rebuild than chimbly? How many videos do I have to flog in order to do that ?!

Planning permission first Auditor #9. Are you sure that the chimbly was not an unauthorised development?

The authorities that were there before The Famine are gone now, I think

It'll be permission to rebuild, then - treatment system, water supply, road access and the lot will all have to be up to modern, not pre-Famine, standards. They you'll have to pay a contribution towards the road and so on. Then, if you get permission, that could take you up to 18 months, you could rebuild it.

Much better to find a do-er upper than a ruin.

If you decide to build it yourself, the lender will almost certainly insist that it is supervised by an engineer. I was lucky in that I built the house myself, and only had to get bridging until my house was sold. I got an engineer to look at the foundations, and then didn't need him any more. They normally come at different stages of the build, and charge accordingly. Probably cost under 2k if you haggle.

Sorry to disappoint you, but there is almost no way 150k will build a house these days. Add 100k and you might be closer to the mark.
I built my own, and it still cost over 400k, not including land.

You should get Duncan Stewart on the case - RTE might pay for your costs .

DS designed a big modern extension for my uncle on a period home - it is fabulous and the whole thing is really eco friendly now.