Anglo was at 48 cents last time I looked.

ISEQ Financials just on 1200

Rate cuts all round. Sweden down 1.75% to 2%, UK down 1% to 2% and the ECB down .75% to 2.5%

48 cents for Anglo now ? Have they stopped trading ? Will they can they ?


http://www.ise.ie/app/equityList.asp

Oh great. BOI closed at 1.02

Are you still intent on losing ever few flucking bob your wife is doing her best to sequester from you. What part of love, honour and OBEY are you having difficulty with. You earn the money and let her look after the spending of it.

Ho Ho the Mistletoe...............deedle didle doooooooooooooo.

Some good news on the Irish banks for a change... some genius has finally decided to try and apply an international standard to the banks and compare, predictably, our banks took a more conservative line than the UK in deciding how much capital they needed to back loans, so recapitalising to the same extent as the British banks may not be necessary.

Full article here http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1015460.shtml

However, with more aggressive Basel II assumptions meaning that, in some instances, UK banks have lower risk weightings for exactly the same risks as International peers (which should ultimately adjust to higher risk weights at the peak of the credit cycle, due to the use of “point in time models” of capital calculation), its comparative capital base is weaker. While we have not seen the full S&P report yet, we are aware that the Irish banks have used a more conservative “through the cycle” approach to calculate their risk weightings under Basel II (Anglo is on standardised Basel II), so although the market undoubtedly now requires banks to hold a higher level of capital, it seems unfair that they would also be expected to increase their capital ratios to the same extent as their UK peers."

expat girl wrote:

Some good news on the Irish banks for a change... some genius has finally decided to try and apply an international standard to the banks and compare, predictably, our banks took a more conservative line than the UK in deciding how much capital they needed to back loans, so recapitalising to the same extent as the British banks may not be necessary.

Full article here http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1015460.shtml

Which makes their almost total collapse in value even more of a mystery. Yes, profits have fallen and bad debts have risen at Irish banks, but they are still there and still earning profits, billions of them at current levels. No publicly-quoted Irish financial institution is losing money, they are all profitable institutions. I accept that they were quite overvalued previously and needed a haircut in valuation but at this stage the values at which they are trading are ludicrous. A company should be worth more in market capitalisation than 1 year's profits. Anglo is utterly undervalued at the moment. The value of the physical bricks, mortar and office equipment in Anglo's offices is higher than that of their current market capitalisation.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

expat girl wrote:

Some good news on the Irish banks for a change... some genius has finally decided to try and apply an international standard to the banks and compare, predictably, our banks took a more conservative line than the UK in deciding how much capital they needed to back loans, so recapitalising to the same extent as the British banks may not be necessary.

Full article here http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1015460.shtml

Which makes their almost total collapse in value even more of a mystery. Yes, profits have fallen and bad debts have risen at Irish banks, but they are still there and still earning profits, billions of them at current levels. No publicly-quoted Irish financial institution is losing money, they are all profitable institutions. I accept that they were quite overvalued previously and needed a haircut in valuation but at this stage the values at which they are trading are ludicrous. A company should be worth more in market capitalisation than 1 year's profits. Anglo is utterly undervalued at the moment. The value of the physical bricks, mortar and office equipment in Anglo's offices is higher than that of their current market capitalisation.

Yes, but do they not have liabilities?

This is from Finfacts today (thanks expatgirl) and it talks about the pressures on banks margins that result from very low interest rates. After the dot com bubble burst, interest rates were pushed right down (as they are being now) to stimulate growth. People went in and drank deep at the stream, but there was a serious incentive on banks to push out credit to large numbers of borrowers to compensate for the reduced margin. This contributed to the present crisis. It is hard to see how doing the same thing over again is going to work.

Quote :

Goodbody analyst Eamonn Hughes says lower interest rates not a one way bet! : "One benefit of the credit crunch is that loan spreads are re-pricing upwards, but the banks are unlikely to see much of it on the net interest margin just yet, given the sheer magnitude of the collapse in new business activity. So we would anticipate that net interest margins ease again in 2009 before stabilising/rising in 2010. In fact, it is an imperative that margins widen if the financial system is to heal itself. So while lower interest rates are clearly a major factor in helping ease financial and economic stresses, it is not all one way traffic, unfortunately.

The 100bps cut by the BOE to 2% yesterday and the 75bps move by the ECB to 2.5% now brings the debate to how low can rates go, with 1% or lower now on the agenda. While the market is anticipating that bank margins start to widen, we could be entering a worrying juncture, whereby deposit margins will start to come under pressure as interest rates decline and intense competition for deposits remains. We keep thinking back to deposit margins in the 2003-2005 period when ECB rates fell to 2%. Margin compression was one of the factors behind our 11% forecast cuts through 2003 for AIB and 5% cuts for BOI when the credit charge was obviously a much smaller figure than it is now in the P&L account. When interest rates decline, banks typically pass them through to deposit rates. However, there comes a threshold level in which lower interest rates are unable to be passed on just because deposit levels are at floors.

For instance, when ECB rates were 2%, overnight deposit rates in Ireland were 40-50bps according to Central Bank data. Deposit margins were 100-110bps in January 2003 and eased down to the lows of 60-70bps as interest rates fell and presumably could come under similar pressures this cycle too. According to Central Bank data, average deposit margins are currently c.110bps. We note the pace with which the Irish and UK banks are passing on lower interest rates on the lending side after the central bank rate cuts. However, particularly in the UK, where there is state ownership, the government may have to be more flexible about allowing the banks to be less vigilant on the deposit side to ease future margin pressures on the banks.

In addition, we would highlight that lower mid and long term bond yields and shortening durations may also cut reinvestment yields for the banks, which was also a margin factor back in 2003/2004. Tracking rolling 1 to 5 year bond yields (to reflect holding to maturities) shows that the average rolling yields haven’t turned down yet, but they will in due course given the extent of the collapse in recent weeks in current actual yields. For instance, two year German yields are down 195bps in three months. So maybe net interest margins will find it more difficult to improve post 2009?"

We have entered a period of deflation. Cash is king and the value of goods and assets are falling. The question is just how long will that period last?

In all probability we will then enter a period of high inflation where the value of cash decreases against goods and assets. Interestingly the worse that period is and the longer the duration the greater the likelihood that all the overprices houses and other assets will start to look cheap!! By magic the assets held bay banks become sound.

Squire wrote:

We have entered a period of deflation. Cash is king and the value of goods and assets are falling. The question is just how long will that period last?

In all probability we will then enter a period of high inflation where the value of cash decreases against goods and assets. Interestingly the worse that period is and the longer the duration the greater the likelihood that all the overprices houses and other assets will start to look cheap!! By magic the assets held bay banks become sound.

And Squire, the banks can do this because they control the money supply ... no ?

I think this makes it all clear...

Wonder if the ISEQ financials will nudge below 1000 before Christmas. Hit 1001 at 4 pm yesterday.

Looks like its dying to me.

Financials were at 965 at one point this morning but are around 990 at the minute.

YoungDan

Good call that is one of them below 1000.

Without a currency devaluation the main index will get there too. A 90% fall like all bubbles. But with money being pushed out who knows there might be the so called Crack Up Boom

Craic up boom? Cad é sin?

A Crack Up Boom is when the perception is that the currency is falling rapidly and inflation will be rising rapidly. In this situation stocks will be bought for 2 reasons. People will just want to buy anything to get rid of the money and two, the companies themselves will be helped because their debt loads will be easier to cover.

So even though everything is going to Hell in a handbasket the stockmarket would be rising

In real value of course the value is falling and that is why some
people say that the Dow and an ounce of gold will cross in value. The iseq is 2400 and gold is 600 in round figures and I expect them to cross. If the index does not fall to 600 then gold will rise to 2400 or whatever the index is.

Oh FFS, look at the state of the bank share prices.

Are you still thinking of buying. I am going to reopen that thread to distract you till the danger passes

youngdan wrote:

In real value of course the value is falling and that is why some
people say that the Dow and an ounce of gold will cross in value. The iseq is 2400 and gold is 600 in round figures and I expect them to cross. If the index does not fall to 600 then gold will rise to 2400 or whatever the index is.

But the value of an index is different to the value of a commodity youngdan.

Closed at 945.

Yep it will be hard time if Sterling reaches parity with the Euro. There is a great new road from Dublin to Newry. It will stimulate lots of economic activity, but not as intended.

From what I can gather they are still building high rise offices across the centre of Belfast. Let me see, cheaper costs, fibre optic networks, plenty of space, well educated work force, dentists and healthcare, versus 12.5% corporation tax and milder climate.


People like Kingspan are in direct competition with EDM Ceco, Kingsmere Brick with Dungannon Brick, etc etc. If the Assembly in the North were anyway functional they could now do real damage to the southern economy. Mercifully they are more concern about wearing poppies, dismantling the best preforming education in the UK, marching and the token use of Irish and Ulster Scots. So nothing to worry about?


EVM

Bank shares should carry a government health warning.

http://www.ise.ie/app/popup_graph.asp?INDEX_TYPE=

Did somebody leave the room?

cactus flower wrote:

http://www.ise.ie/app/popup_graph.asp?INDEX_TYPE=

Did somebody leave the room?

Was just wondering that myself. It appears to have shut down at 1 o'clock

London closed at 12:30 for the year, I presume Dublin was similar.

ISEQ has gone up two days in a row... this can't last... we'll have a new tiger cub at this rate...