Respvblica wrote:

Italy would be in the worst situation in that regard. What are they going to do I wonder?

Who is going to look after all those mammies boys when they are old ? : scary thought

and what about China in 50 years time?

youngdan wrote:

There is not much point in talking about Ron Paul at this point in time with Irish people because the entire country is living a dream back there. This crying over the budget is pathetic.

I will say this though. Paul is not right wing at all and if anyone thinks he is are mistaken. Bush is right wing. Paul is a Constitutionalist and under the Constitution there would be no left wing or right wing.

What Ireland needs is a Ron Paul to pick up the pieces in a few months. The whole place will be wailing by Christmas. I never saw anything like it.

Save the grannies, save the teachers, save the banks, save the waterford glass workers, save the unemployed, save the students, save the Africans, save the Chadians, save the sick, save the planet, save the jobs, save RTE, save Tara, save the children, save the civil service, save the bogs, save the farmers, save broadband for everybody, save my house, save my post office account,

Save everything but the fact is it is every man for himself so save yourself

How right I was back in October. The country was still dreaming but it is waking up now.

http://www.newswithviews.com/metcalf/metcalf278.htm

Audi, this is a good article on the situation with the 10th amendment and should be discussed in the Ron Paul thread. It is early days in what was reckonedto be a 10 year struggle. Things are going better thn we expected. Having a lightweight like Obama elected ws a Godsend as people are waking up to him fairly quickly.

I expect a Ron Paul type figure to appear in Ireland soon enough. Time Ireland had some hope nd change

youngdan wrote:

http://www.newswithviews.com/metcalf/metcalf278.htm

Audi, this is a good article on the situation with the 10th amendment and should be discussed in the Ron Paul thread. It is early days in what was reckonedto be a 10 year struggle. Things are going better thn we expected. Having a lightweight like Obama elected ws a Godsend as people are waking up to him fairly quickly.

I expect a Ron Paul type figure to appear in Ireland soon enough. Time Ireland had some hope nd change

Well you did see it coming somehow - perhaps because as you say, the US is 9 months ahead so we should listen for rumours of the future upswing when youngdan starts talking bullish about stuff other than gold.

from your link
Arizona, New Hampshire, Missouri, and Washington state are in various stages of legislatively declaring their sovereignty. Several states are giving notice the Federal Government should actually abide by the terms enumerated in the U.S. Constitution. They probably won’t succeed any more than Ron Paul did, but both the states rights movement and the Ron Paul reality are seeds that have been planted…and require attention and nurturing.

So this and the other thread will document this New Movement that is happening in the US but which PROBABLY won't succeed according to your man above. I thought they were seceding the other day to be honest but on the other hand I can't see how they won't succeeed if there is a provision in the Constitution for States to assert their Sovereignty ... or does it depend on what they decide to have sovereignty over .... they might want to be able to abandon the Dollar early next year or later in this when it goes bust. There is hardly a provision in American Law to disbar states from leaving the Union ????

If you think the threads could be combined then we could put them together so feel free to suggest a name for the new thread.

Leave the threads alone, it dosn't matter. The writer says that the effort will produce little at the moment. That doesnot matter, what is important is that there are groups coming together and discussing it. It is not plain citizens like the Paulites last year but it is now state lawmakers in 10 different states.

They are not talking about seceding from the Union but are talking more a situation like Home Rule in theIrish sence. They are pointing out that the Constitution allows the federal government to do only certain things and not a lot of the stuff they are sticking their snout in at the moment.

Here is news from California showing how the economic crisis is sparking talk of secession which is totally different

http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/1600441.html


Early days yet

Don't forget that independence started this way. A few reasonable demands.

When Papal Kmight said that the Paulites were only a handfull of loons it was obvious that the movement had a bright future.

I will give him credit though when credit is due. I a rare moment of cordiality he said that Paul had no chance. For him to be successfull he would have to begin at local level and work up.

When the media is against him that is too true. The media almost hoisted Rudy on us even though in reality he had no support what so ever. All they had was phoney opinion polls saying 45% supported him.

Happily nobody buys the media anymore. Some Mexican called Slim is after putting cash into the NY Times but it's days are numbered

So now we have the lower rungs beginning to pull away from DC.

So could be in the early days of the break-up of the USSA. We will leave Obama in DC. He can have Marion Barry's old job.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=88218

This is an indication that there are senior state legislators who have had their fill of the facism of Clinton/Bush/Obama. Even the lame-brained can see they are the same clique. It may have taken 3 weeks but better late than never.

What is important is that rumblings are now being heard from liberal states like California, Washington and Hawaii. Distraction issues like gays in the military does not cut the mustard any more. Actually anyone who is worried about gays in the military as the country collapses should just be politely ignored

Liberals have decided they don't want concentration camps or Obama's new army of 3 million.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/82709

This is what happened when the bill was introduced to committee in New Hampshire. The hacks that are owned voted against it. The vote was 11 to 7. It must still be voted on by the entire House of 400 members. The fact that 7 out of 18 are Paulites to one extent or another is very encouraging.

A similiar bill is introduced in Pennslyvannia as well so that is 11 states. Who knows what will happen

Here's the important bit of the article - what's ITL? And the fact that there was a proposal for this doesn't mean that it will be voted on by the local members?

Are the committee members Congressmen ?



"Earlier this month the public hearing for HCR6 (Jeffersonian Principles) was thronged with supporters. Not a single voice against the bill.

Now we have the Executive Session, where the bill is railroaded to ITL. A movement to ITL comes quickly from Patrick Garrity and is seconded by Dom Domingo.

Several Reps speak passionately for the bill, most notably Alfred Baldasaro and Lars Christiansen. Christiansen holds up a sheaf of emails from constituents supporting the bill. Not one Rep speaks against it or gives the slighest hint of why it should be opposed.

And yet when the vote comes, it is overwhelmingly against the bill.

Why? Why did they vote against it? And why aren't they explaining why they did so?

Something is very wrong here."

The 18 are not United States House representatives, they are New Hampshire House representatives. My understanding is that what happens was that the committee voted to recommend against the bill but it still can be voted on by the entire House of 400 members

I hope this is a sign of wider a awakening that the self serving cliques that effectively control the west are now (and have been for say 30 -40 years) destroying it. The endless bailouts benifit who exactly?

Not that I am advocating this, but imagine for one moment that instead of pumping trillions into banks they instead used the money to pay of personal debt. What would happen? Average bloke, no mortgage to pay at the end of the month, would suddenly think well I may buy a new car or refit the kitchen. Instant buoyancy! Also banks get the money for the toxic assets, which they claim the problem to be, so they also get the money only it comes in in a form that clears others liabilities as well. Two birds killed at a stroke! The problem alas is a lot deeper than sub prime. It is a system that is virtually bankrupt and they will drag all down in an attempt to salvage. It is rotten to the core.

Squire wrote:

I hope this is a sign of wider a awakening that the self serving cliques that effectively control the west are now (and have been for say 30 -40 years) destroying it. The endless bailouts benifit who exactly?

Not that I am advocating this, but imagine for one moment that instead of pumping trillions into banks they instead used the money to pay of personal debt. What would happen? Average bloke, no mortgage to pay at the end of the month, would suddenly think well I may buy a new car or refit the kitchen. Instant buoyancy! Also banks get the money for the toxic assets, which they claim the problem to be, so they also get the money only it comes in in a form that clears others liabilities as well. Two birds killed at a stroke! The problem alas is a lot deeper than sub prime. It is a system that is virtually bankrupt and they will drag all down in an attempt to salvage. It is rotten to the core.

MaxKeiser is here saying that the GM bailout will be used to build plant in Brazil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGVjSQW-fZM

That is no surprise. With the bailouts the average Joe assumes that the money is going to keep jobs in their country and that at a basic level the people involved have some level of decency. This off course is utter nonsense.

There was an opportunity to remove the parasites but generally humanity is a timid beast. It fears radical change.

Squire wrote:

That is no surprise. With the bailouts the average Joe assumes that the money is going to keep jobs in their country and that at a basic level the people involved have some level of decency. This off course is utter nonsense.

There was an opportunity to remove the parasites but generally humanity is a timid beast. It fears radical change.

What led to the French Revolution then and was the original American Independence movement a good revolt against the English? There was also the English Civil war and the Bolsheviks as well as the National Socialists in Germany. All of these ended up in tyranny as far as I can see, even the American one.

But at least they started - and there seems to be something building in the world for another paradigm shift.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa5sCO-3ly0


This is the guy that has introduced the Bill in Oklahoma. It has been passed in committee there and now goes to the full House. It looks to be as if there is going to be serious trouble. Anyone with an ounce of economic sense knows that the stimulas bill now to be signed into law will crash the global financial system. It can only be deliberate so when ye feel the impact of the implosion ye can blame Obama. Hang on to yeer hats.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/82850

Ireland unfortunately does not have a Ron Paul figure at least yet. They are content to let the bankers clean them out

Was there ever one fiat currency which survived printing long term ? Just one ?

I think the answer is no so it's only a matter of time for the fiat currencies we have now.

But Audi was there ever ANY currency that worked long term in any country without problems? The currency is only as good as the economy of the country and the ability or level of greed of those in those in power.

That is the whole idea of a one world currency in the new world order. Then there would be no choice and nothing to compare it to. The bankers would print it and you would have no choice but to work for it.

It is called being a slave.

Squire
No it doesn't appear that any particular currency has survived but could it be argued that the whole thing hasn't fundamentally changed either since the time of the Romans or beyond - the seashell fellas?

In the Jared Diamond book Collapse we saw a bit on the Pacific Ocean society of Tikopia - a small island of 1200 people - which has been stable/static for hundreds of years. Could our own society blossom into something like that when all the currencies of the world are finally melted together into one big ball?

youngdan
Just saw the youtube you posted and your man was talking about printing for war ... Are you convinced that a world currency would enslave us all? I'm not sure it would ... are you sure you're not haunted by that Rothschild(?) quote about "give me control over a nation's money and I care not who makes their laws" to paraphrase ?

It would only enslave 5%. The other 95% would be dead. I said this a year ago and ye thought I was crazy. Now it just appears ridiculous. In 3 months it will appear a remote possibility. Check out the Georgia Guidestones

The problem with what Ron Paul is saying is that he thinks free market capitalism can be saved, just break the world economy back down to the nation states and put the dollar back on the gold standard.

Protectionism and going back on the gold standard have been tried before and they didn't work. This article you posted on another thread explained how capitalism depends on growth for its existence. Paul's cures would lead to an even more massive deflation than the one that we already have on our hands.

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/schoon/2009/0213.html

Ron Paul wants to go back to an early form of capitalism but you can't turn the clock back like that. The world is too productive, and profit margins are too diminished, for any form of capitalism to manage production and distribution.

We don't need to be run by a wealthy minority who would sacrifice half of the species to restore their financial positions. We need a new system of investment, exchange and distribution that doesn't depend on credit and profit.

What must be understood is that when Ron Paul is talking about free market capitalism he is talking about a different thing than what a person might understand it to mean in Ireland and very different to what is in the States at the moment.

You have got to stop just believing what economists are saying because they are simply misleading you. As the article points out that is deliberate. He is talking about a different system altogether. Under his system there could be neither inflation or deflation because the money supply would be constant. Do not blindly believe what a banker/economist tells you because that is how he makes his money. He is not stupid.

You seem to think that Ron Paul is saying that the present system can be saved when in fact he is saying that the present system has got to go.

youngdan wrote:

What must be understood is that when Ron Paul is talking about free market capitalism he is talking about a different thing than what a person might understand it to mean in Ireland and very different to what is in the States at the moment.

You have got to stop just believing what economists are saying because they are simply misleading you. As the article points out that is deliberate. He is talking about a different system altogether. Under his system there could be neither inflation or deflation because the money supply would be constant. Do not blindly believe what a banker/economist tells you because that is how he makes his money. He is not stupid.

You seem to think that Ron Paul is saying that the present system can be saved when in fact he is saying that the present system has got to go.

So what exactly is he proposing? Has he written a book on it?

There are no shortages of books by Paul and everyone else.

You will have heard of Austrian Economics as against what is known as The Chicago School.

It was too bad that 1 year ago when the 3.5 hour video The Money Masters was recommended as an explanation of how the financial system came to be what it is today, that you did not watch. If you had, the events of this past year as predicted by many, would be easier to follow.

You would know why central banks were set up.

youngdan wrote:

There are no shortages of books by Paul and everyone else.

You will have heard of Austrian Economics as against what is known as The Chicago School.

It was too bad that 1 year ago when the 3.5 hour video The Money Masters was recommended as an explanation of how the financial system came to be what it is today, that you did not watch. If you had, the events of this past year as predicted by many, would be easier to follow.

You would know why central banks were set up.

I know how the system came about. What I don't know is how does Ron Paul propose to replace it?