Nationalisation Watch / Govt. rethinking 3.5 billion bailout for the banks?

Negotiation in May went on longer than expected in order that the UK would come onboard but no, once the deal was agreed and broadcast on the media in May every signatory was on board and they all signed together in Oslo in December.

Right, that must have been what I was mis-remembering. Allright, I'll give them a few extra Brownie points for that. Apologies again

The Lakenheath weapons for Israel stuff was on the More 4 News tonight and is accurate, however.

Zhou_Enlai wrote:

If you want a job done right...


S.I. No. 411 of 2008.
CREDIT INSTITUTIONS (FINANCIAL SUPPORT) SCHEME 2008
....
3.3 “covered liabilities” shall be construed in accordance with paragraph 10 of the Schedule; and
....
10. The covered liabilities are those liabilities existing from 30 September 2008 or at any time thereafter up to and including 29 September 2010, in respect of the following:

10.1 all retail and corporate deposits (to the extent not covered by existing deposit protection schemes in the State or any other jurisdiction);
10.2 interbank deposits;
10.3 senior unsecured debt;
10.4 asset covered securities; and
10.5 dated subordinated debt (Lower Tier 2),

excluding any intra-group borrowing and any debt due to the European Central Bank arising from Eurosystem monetary operations.
The Minister shall publish the total covered liabilities of the covered institutions in aggregate quarterly in Iris Oifigiuil.

11. The Minister shall impose specific restrictions on a covered institution in respect of dated subordinated debt (Lower Tier 2) covered by the guarantee, so as to prevent the unwarranted expansion of capital and lending activity during the guarantee period. Such restrictions shall include but not be limited to those set out at paragraphs 36 to 43.

In particular the Regulatory Authority shall require that where new dated subordinated debt is covered by the guarantee, the covered institution benefiting from such a financing will also maintain at least the solvency ratio initially obtained when this financing takes place during the whole duration of the guarantee period.

The details of the restrictions imposed by the Regulatory Authority on a covered institution benefiting from a guarantee on new subordinated debts will be transmitted each six months to the European Commission.
....

In plain language this is what paragraph 10 means, listing what the gaurantee covers.

10.1 all deposits in excess of 18 grand. All deposits under 18 grand were already covered under the old deposit insurance. Some might think a deposit is an asset but it really is a liability as when it is lent out the bank owes the depositor his money. If the bank gets stiffed on the loan to shady builder the bank stills owes the depositors so if there is say 4 billion on deposit(which may be gone) then this is a liability. A good argument can be said for this being paid even though I wouldn't, because a depositor never dreams of losing his money by putting it into his savings account.

10.2. Interbank deposits. These would be small relatively and is money one bank borrows from another to have a required float

10.3 Senior unsecured debt.

This is the big one as far as I am concerned but I don't have figures. This is where anglo would have borrowed from the investors by selling bonds. Unsecured is normal because that is what bonds are and the chances of not being repaid are priced in. These are what the CDSs would insure. They should not be paid and depending on the amount may not be able to be repaid

10.4 asset back securities.

An asset backed security is a loan tied to an asset that can be repossessed or foreclosed on. In this case I am assuming that anglo borrowed money on their buildings or land. Most likely a small figure

10.5 dated subordinated debt.

Same as senoir debt but with much less of a chance of repayment. The owners would be doing somersaults on hearing the gaurantee.

Bottom line. The deposits and debt issued by the bank are covered. The loans given to builders is the depositors cash so depending on how much the builders owe the bank when they go belly up will determine how much money is short and owed the depositors. The money owed the investor bond holders known to the banks.

Keep in mind it is not the builders that are getting bailed out.

If there is anything of note mentioned in the dail debate let me know as I did not watch

Thanks yd, very illuminating

Just saw the Beeb trying to eviscerate Lenihan on newsnight.....then speculating if the UK is going to go the same way

Female interviewer, don't know her name, but gave a creditable imitation of Paxman. Very, very condescending. I wouldn't have minded, but when she was told by the Labour and Tory MPs on her panel beforehand, that RBS had lend out 1.7trn STG (in excess of national GDP and only one of many similar huge banks), she didn't give them half such a hard time

Lenihan had a weird smile on his face as he pointed out to her that Northern Rock went before Anglo......and he was in constant discussions with the Chancellor about the banks in BOTH jurisdictions. I'll bet!!

The usual UK stuff about "isn't the Euro stopping you from manoevering" BL points out that before the yoyo, we were tied to the DM and to Sterling before that, and that small currencies get speculated against........

Sigh. Our next door neighbours seem determined to drag our rep through the mud.....pots and kettles come to mind. Not that some of the accusations didn't have a ring of truth.....Celtic Tiger now drowned kitten and unemployment here now 10% according to them (thought it was only 8.2??? Not that it won't go up)

Adair Turner (head of FSA, did they say??) expects financial turmoil to last at least 2 years

Doom is nigh, I guess

So was the Sindo right then ?

They said the 1.5 Bill would cover 'Undated Subordinate Debt'

Was the article true that the high risk players who invested in Anglo would see a bailout for thesee investors ???

I assumed wrong on the asset backed securities. They bundled and resold and bundled with the result that there is a shocking figure of 8 billion plus reported by powderfinger. This one dump of a bank could cost 30 billion.

As it turns out EVM they were not high risk, they were not risk they were no risk because the clown gauranteed them.

So don't worry about the few hundred you lost on B of I because you have lost about 50000 on anglo.

See, I also give you good news to cheer you up. your share loss has completely left your head now.

youngdan, 30bn / 4m pop = 7500

Americans bailed out some people to the tune of 14 trillion now, I hear = $40k every man woman and child.

p.s.
that's not adding in BOI and AIB or any of the others, however

p.p.s.
you're guessing 30bn out of the 8bn or have you some grounds for that ?

So if EVM has 3 kids that is 7500 by 5 =35000. Seeing that only half actually work in the privte sector his share is 70000.

Sorry about that extra 20 grand, just go back to thinking about the few hundred.

Audi, we can only guess at the losses. We have deposits plus unsecured bonds and now these asset backed bonds.

Don't worry about the Americans, they have a printing press, all the Irish have is one big fat magic arse.

I think that arse is going to have to magically unfatten itself because the ECB will put the shits up us for two years or more to learn us a lesson I'd say.

That's my prognostication anyway. Maybe 5 years - the Germans did it before to Europe and everything was different afterwards. We'll fecking learn this time I tell you.

Everyone is starting to get the shits already.

youngdan wrote:

As it turns out EVM they were not high risk, they were not risk they were no risk because the clown gauranteed them.

So don't worry about the few hundred you lost on B of I because you have lost about 50000 on anglo.

See, I also give you good news to cheer you up. your share loss has completely left your head now.

It has not left my head you Frozen Bostonian. I could have bought a ride-on lawnmower with that money.

But I'm not bothered. I'm cheery.

My tax dollar loss is a different subject, and I will execute my vengeance with a ballot paper as long as I live.

Jeysus. Don't tell Ibis you are going to buy a ride-on lawnmower. You are pushing out carbon dioxide while simultaniously killing the grass that absorbs the nasty carbon dioxide. You heathen earth -killing heritic. You deserve to have your carbon foot print reduced to one millionth of Al Gore's.

I just sold AIB shares that I bought on Wednesday anyway...

johnfás wrote:

I just sold AIB shares that I bought on Wednesday anyway...

How much did you make - 40 quid ?

Anglo Investors to Sue Bank Chiefs - The Pin

Examiner Article LINK

If they win, their burden of payment gets eased I suppose while other taxpayers' burdens won't ?

I'm being sued ?

johnfás wrote:

I just sold AIB shares that I bought on Wednesday anyway...

Cool. Did you double the money ?

cactus flower wrote:

I'm being sued ?

Are you Sean Fitzpatrick the Sneaky Bastard ?

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

I'm being sued ?

Are you Sean Fitzpatrick the Sneaky Bastard ?

Quote :

“The proceedings have not yet been decided,” said Mr Deale. “But the likely parties are Anglo Irish Bank, its directors, Irish Nationwide and the auditors of both institutions.”

That's us, EvotingMachine0197

Ok should I change the title to 'former Bank Chiefs' ?

Ernst and Young are being sued too bringing the profession I was born with into some disrepute.

Oh right. I think my EEPROMS are getting jaded,

Auditor #9 wrote:

Ok should I change the title to 'former Bank Chiefs' ?

Ernst and Young are being sued too bringing the profession I was born with into some disrepute.

If they sue the Bank, surely that is the Bank that is owned by us. We now own it. We are being sued.

What's an EEPROM?

gekko on the Pin is seeing nothing coming out of this - he says it's all babies, prams and rattles on the part of the shareholders ...

EEPROMS are memory chips - erasable read-only programmable memory chips.

Been out of date for oh twenty years now.

Auditor #9 wrote:

johnfás wrote:

I just sold AIB shares that I bought on Wednesday anyway...

How much did you make - 40 quid ?

Anglo Investors to Sue Bank Chiefs - The Pin

Examiner Article LINK

If they win, their burden of payment gets eased I suppose while other taxpayers' burdens won't ?

About 2,000.

johnfás wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

johnfás wrote:

I just sold AIB shares that I bought on Wednesday anyway...

How much did you make - 40 quid ?

Anglo Investors to Sue Bank Chiefs - The Pin

Examiner Article LINK

If they win, their burden of payment gets eased I suppose while other taxpayers' burdens won't ?

About 2,000.

Spend it all on your nice new avatar johnfás?

I wish - that avatar would cost you about a quarter of a million .

Anyway it has gone into my savings for a Masters which I might do next year. Will pay about a quarter of my fees so was a decent investment.