ibis wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Ibis

Quote :

Sure. It's a pity we only seem to have such debates when there are treaties up for grabs, though.

Its been going along steadily now for nine months at least, and I don't think its going to stop.

Six months of which was actual campaign - and Europe would have dropped well off the horizon by now if the Treaty had been passed, which is the one reason I'm glad it wasn't.

Yet another question that only time holds the answer to. It is my belief that it is not possible for the EU to become more "efficient" or "powerful" (depending on your standpoint), and at the same time not to come under much greater public scrutiny.

cactus flower wrote:

ibis wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Ibis

Quote :

Sure. It's a pity we only seem to have such debates when there are treaties up for grabs, though.

Its been going along steadily now for nine months at least, and I don't think its going to stop.

Six months of which was actual campaign - and Europe would have dropped well off the horizon by now if the Treaty had been passed, which is the one reason I'm glad it wasn't.

Yet another question that only time holds the answer to. It is my belief that it is not possible for the EU to become more "efficient" or "powerful" (depending on your standpoint), and at the same time not to come under much greater public scrutiny.

And to be fair to them, increases in EU competences have been accompanied by concomitant increases in EU democracy. The original Parliament, when created some way into the life of the EC, was just a talking shop with no powers - it is now a much more powerful institution (and would have been yet more powerful after Lisbon). Still, neither national governments nor eurosceptics want people to know that...

Mary Harney would be a fantastic choice for Commissioner. She has served our area well over the past few decades, brought a huge amount of good to the broader people of Ireland and has been a hammer through the glass ceiling in becoming the first female leader of a party and Tánaiste.

Mary Harney deserves a nice reward after the thankless years at Health. EU Commissioner would be an excellent choice.

[quote="ibis"]

cactus flower wrote:

ibis wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Ibis

Quote :

Sure. It's a pity we only seem to have such debates when there are treaties up for grabs, though.

Its been going along steadily now for nine months at least, and I don't think its going to stop.

Six months of which was actual campaign - and Europe would have dropped well off the horizon by now if the Treaty had been passed, which is the one reason I'm glad it wasn't.

Yet another question that only time holds the answer to. It is my belief that it is not possible for the EU to become more "efficient" or "powerful" (depending on your standpoint), and at the same time not to come under much greater public scrutiny.

And to be fair to them, increases in EU competences have been accompanied by concomitant increases in EU democracy. The original Parliament, when created some way into the life of the EC, was just a talking shop with no powers - it is now a much more powerful institution (and would have been yet more powerful after Lisbon). Still, neither national governments nor eurosceptics want people to know that...[/quote]

Another conspiracy, Ibis ?

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

Mary Harney would be a fantastic choice for Commissioner. She has served our area well over the past few decades, brought a huge amount of good to the broader people of Ireland and has been a hammer through the glass ceiling in becoming the first female leader of a party and Tánaiste.

Mary Harney deserves a nice reward after the thankless years at Health. EU Commissioner would be an excellent choice.

While I agree with you, she is has done a lot of good for the people of her constituency and her election record stands testament to that, I don't believe a commissionership should be seen as a reward to be given, it should be a prize to be fought for and not on a historical battle of past local/national action.

cactus flower wrote:

ibis wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

ibis wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Ibis

Quote :

Sure. It's a pity we only seem to have such debates when there are treaties up for grabs, though.

Its been going along steadily now for nine months at least, and I don't think its going to stop.

Six months of which was actual campaign - and Europe would have dropped well off the horizon by now if the Treaty had been passed, which is the one reason I'm glad it wasn't.

Yet another question that only time holds the answer to. It is my belief that it is not possible for the EU to become more "efficient" or "powerful" (depending on your standpoint), and at the same time not to come under much greater public scrutiny.

And to be fair to them, increases in EU competences have been accompanied by concomitant increases in EU democracy. The original Parliament, when created some way into the life of the EC, was just a talking shop with no powers - it is now a much more powerful institution (and would have been yet more powerful after Lisbon). Still, neither national governments nor eurosceptics want people to know that...[/

Another conspiracy, Ibis ?

Not by any means a conspiracy - just that neither national politicians nor eurosceptics have any interest in pointing up any democratic legitimacy the EU has. Why, do you think they have some such interest?

cookiemonster wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

Mary Harney would be a fantastic choice for Commissioner. She has served our area well over the past few decades, brought a huge amount of good to the broader people of Ireland and has been a hammer through the glass ceiling in becoming the first female leader of a party and Tánaiste.

Mary Harney deserves a nice reward after the thankless years at Health. EU Commissioner would be an excellent choice.

While I agree with you, she is has done a lot of good for the people of her constituency and her election record stands testament to that, I don't believe a commissionership should be seen as a reward to be given, it should be a prize to be fought for and not on a historical battle of past local/national action.

That does sound like a better means with which we can vet candidates for the commission but, out of political necessity and convenience, it would be better for Brian Cowen and the FF leadership to get Mary Harney safely into some sinecure in this post-PD world.

I just can't see Mary Harney being a comfortable fit in the Cabinet, this Cabinet as an Independent. If Bertie Ahern was still Taoiseach I could see them coming to some resolution considering their close working relationship. However, that co-operation is not shared with Brian Cowen so it would suit Cowen to have Harney out of the Cabinet and Summer 2009 would be a nice time for that.

It would also be quite good, at least for Fianna Fáil in the sense that it would give Brian Cowen yet more flexibility when it comes to a putative Cabinet re-shuffle in light of the Euro/Local Elections.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

Mary Harney would be a fantastic choice for Commissioner. She has served our area well over the past few decades, brought a huge amount of good to the broader people of Ireland and has been a hammer through the glass ceiling in becoming the first female leader of a party and Tánaiste.

Mary Harney deserves a nice reward after the thankless years at Health. EU Commissioner would be an excellent choice.

Ard, my friend, either you are posting this in a tongue-in-cheek manner or you see nothing wrong in rewarding people for, for the want of a better phrase, dubious "achievements". Either way, she does not "deserve" yet another sinecure at the expense of the unfortunate public who have had to pay for her entire career plus expenses from the word go.

Retirement from politics and some board appointments would be more appropriate. I think she needs to experience life in the private sector. It's never too late, you know.

I'm rather alarmed by the idea that the job of an EU Commissioner is a sinecure!

ibis wrote:

I'm rather alarmed by the idea that the job of an EU Commissioner is a sinecure!

From www.dictionary.com

si·ne·cure Show Spelled Pronunciation[sahy-ni-kyoor, sin-i-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun

1.	an office or position requiring little or no work, esp. one yielding profitable returns.

This could fit the description of some EU Commissioners. McCreevy, I understand from a full time employee of the commission, misses more meetings than he attends and is widely ignored by many, particularly in Germany, where his ideas on banking reform were dismissed a couple of years ago and were not resurrected. Under those circumstances, he has been occupying a sinecure since what little he seems to be doing is of little relevance in any case.

Don't worry about Harney. Even if she gets it, she'd be lucky to be the Commissioner for photocopying following Ireland's No vote to Lisbon. Perhaps the only positive outcome from the referendum!

I think that Harney is tainted by her long association with Bertie. The commisionership, if it still exists, will be given to an FF hack who needs to be put out of the way temporarily.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc wrote:

I think that Harney is tainted by her long association with Bertie. The commisionership, if it still exists, will be given to an FF hack who needs to be put out of the way temporarily.

Regards...jmcc

Want to mention any names jmcc?

cactus flower wrote:

Want to mention any names jmcc?

I think that a particular long serving FF hack who has become an electoral liability after Lisbon and likes Europe might be a candidate (though this is only mere speculation). There are others of course. Harney was too close to Bertie and there will be a bit of a night of the long knives if she gets it. FF may forgive but it never forgets so Cowen would be stupid to hand off a prime incentive to someone that is still seen by oldschool FFers as a traitor. I would not be surprised if a few FFers are lobbying for this position - particularly some who have been demoted in recent shuffles. Again this is just speculation in case any of it turns out to be accurate.

Regards...jmcc

Does Harney even want it?
I'm not sure she does. I might be wrong but as she is stepping down after the next election why would FF even bother to offer it/
I could understand if she were to run as an indo in Dublin mid-west and therefore keeping a FF out of a possable seat but she has telegraphed her intention not to run again.
FF dont need to offer here anything.

This hare has been raised again in today's SBP:

Quote :

Taoiseach Brian Cowen is facing difficulties appointing a successor to EU Commissioner, Charlie McCreevy, from within his government as it would erode its already-narrow majority, according to informed sources. There has been speculation that Mary Harney, the Minister for Health, would replace McCreevy in Brussels in a cabinet reshuffle later this year.

Harney’s name is increasingly touted as a candidate for Brussels along with Minister Noel Dempsey. But Harney’s intentions are unclear and sources believe Cowen may not wish to risk a by-election that would further erode the Governments reduced majority. For this reason, the Brussels post may go to someone from outside the Oireachtas, such as Maire Geoghegan Quinn, who is at the European Court of Auditors.

The assumption seems to be that an appointment to the Commission is a matter of handing out a plum "job for the boy/girl" whilst simultaneously protecting party electoral position. The idea that we might actually select a candidate for the Commission who would contribute in the best possible way to developing the EU does not enter into it.
McCreevy, the SBP says, was shunted off to the Commission because his neoliberal politics were unpopular in Ireland. It was all right so to send him off to the Commission???
This is the man who is refusing European Parliament requests to prepare proposals for increased regulation of the Financial Sector including Hedge Funds. His choice of attending race meetings instead of important scheduled Commission events has not brought Ireland any credibility, and his euroliberal politics and economics if not wanted here, should surely not have been elevated to a position of much greater power?

Quote :

Meanwhile, there is growing concern among Harney’s supporters that the former PD minister should not become ‘‘the fall guy’’ for a poor Fianna Fáil performance at the local and European elections. Several Fianna Fáil TDs have publicly voiced dissatisfaction with budget decisions in the health portfolio, and insiders are mooting a reshuffle of Harney to Brussels later this year.

Quote :

There is also a view that the job of commissioner, which is regarded as a plum post, should not be awarded to anyone outside the party.

A spokesman for Harney said: ‘‘The minister is totally focused on the health area and is not focused on any other job. The budget measures were decided by all Government ministers after considerable discussion of the issues involved.”

Some of Harney’s supporters are concerned that she may be regarded as ‘‘a sacrificial lamb’’ for Fianna Fáil’s unpopularity. McCreevy, the former minister for finance was appointed to the post in Brussels in 2004 by the Taoiseach Bertie Ahern after a series of controversial budgets. The move that was widely regarded as an attempt to distance Fianna Fáil from McCreevy’s neo-liberal policies.

Cowen’s quandary will be accelerated if there is further backbench unrest this year. Fianna Fáil is unlikely to win back the seat in the Dublin South constituency in the by-election resulting from the death of former minister Seamus Brennan. The party is also unlikely to make any gain in Dublin Central after the death of deputy Tony Gregory.

Harney is hanging on to Health like a barnacle onto a rock. Dempsey is a disaster in everything he does and if he had any influence would bankrupt the EU in short time.

Another good reason for an early end to the Fianna Fail government would be the possibility of a better and less cynical appointment to the Commission.

cactus flower wrote:

This hare has been raised again in today's SBP:

Quote :

Taoiseach Brian Cowen is facing difficulties appointing a successor to EU Commissioner, Charlie McCreevy, from within his government as it would erode its already-narrow majority, according to informed sources. There has been speculation that Mary Harney, the Minister for Health, would replace McCreevy in Brussels in a cabinet reshuffle later this year.

Harney’s name is increasingly touted as a candidate for Brussels along with Minister Noel Dempsey. But Harney’s intentions are unclear and sources believe Cowen may not wish to risk a by-election that would further erode the Governments reduced majority. For this reason, the Brussels post may go to someone from outside the Oireachtas, such as Maire Geoghegan Quinn, who is at the European Court of Auditors.

The assumption seems to be that an appointment to the Commission is a matter of handing out a plum "job for the boy/girl" whilst simultaneously protecting party electoral position. The idea that we might actually select a candidate for the Commission who would contribute in the best possible way to developing the EU does not enter into it.
McCreevy, the SBP says, was shunted off to the Commission because his neoliberal politics were unpopular in Ireland. It was all right so to send him off to the Commission???
This is the man who is refusing European Parliament requests to prepare proposals for increased regulation of the Financial Sector including Hedge Funds. His choice of attending race meetings instead of important scheduled Commission events has not brought Ireland any credibility, and his euroliberal politics and economics if not wanted here, should surely not have been elevated to a position of much greater power?

Quote :

Meanwhile, there is growing concern among Harney’s supporters that the former PD minister should not become ‘‘the fall guy’’ for a poor Fianna Fáil performance at the local and European elections. Several Fianna Fáil TDs have publicly voiced dissatisfaction with budget decisions in the health portfolio, and insiders are mooting a reshuffle of Harney to Brussels later this year.

Quote :

There is also a view that the job of commissioner, which is regarded as a plum post, should not be awarded to anyone outside the party.

A spokesman for Harney said: ‘‘The minister is totally focused on the health area and is not focused on any other job. The budget measures were decided by all Government ministers after considerable discussion of the issues involved.”

Some of Harney’s supporters are concerned that she may be regarded as ‘‘a sacrificial lamb’’ for Fianna Fáil’s unpopularity. McCreevy, the former minister for finance was appointed to the post in Brussels in 2004 by the Taoiseach Bertie Ahern after a series of controversial budgets. The move that was widely regarded as an attempt to distance Fianna Fáil from McCreevy’s neo-liberal policies.

Cowen’s quandary will be accelerated if there is further backbench unrest this year. Fianna Fáil is unlikely to win back the seat in the Dublin South constituency in the by-election resulting from the death of former minister Seamus Brennan. The party is also unlikely to make any gain in Dublin Central after the death of deputy Tony Gregory.

Harney is hanging on to Health like a barnacle onto a rock. Dempsey is a disaster in everything he does and if he had any influence would bankrupt the EU in short time.

Another good reason for an early end to the Fianna Fail government would be the possibility of a better and less cynical appointment to the Commission.

Hear hear.

cactus flower wrote:

Harney is hanging on to Health like a barnacle onto a rock. Dempsey is a disaster in everything he does and if he had any influence would bankrupt the EU in short time.

Another good reason for an early end to the Fianna Fail government would be the possibility of a better and less cynical appointment to the Commission.

Harumph! Harumph!
Having said that, have you thought this through?

I have always thought that cynicism is a much under valued quality in Irish politics. For example, if as you suggest it would be a good thing for a quick end to come for this dastardly FF led Government, would the ditch hurlers be able to handle, from a mental health point of view, the utopian situation which might very well ensue, I myself would have concerns, I have to say.

tonys wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Harney is hanging on to Health like a barnacle onto a rock. Dempsey is a disaster in everything he does and if he had any influence would bankrupt the EU in short time.

Another good reason for an early end to the Fianna Fail government would be the possibility of a better and less cynical appointment to the Commission.

Harumph! Harumph!
Having said that, have you thought this through?

I have always thought that cynicism is a much under valued quality in Irish politics. For example, if as you suggest it would be a good thing for a quick end to come for this dastardly FF led Government, would the ditch hurlers be able to handle, from a mental health point of view, the utopian situation which might very well ensue, I myself would have concerns, I have to say.

This, tonys, is by any yardstick a pisspoor government and its passing would be lamented only by a few, excepting, of course, the vested interests it serves. A most welcome side-effect of its passing would be the end of Harney's political career. My Möet is being chilled in anticipation.

Slim Buddha wrote:

tonys wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Harney is hanging on to Health like a barnacle onto a rock. Dempsey is a disaster in everything he does and if he had any influence would bankrupt the EU in short time.

Another good reason for an early end to the Fianna Fail government would be the possibility of a better and less cynical appointment to the Commission.

Harumph! Harumph!
Having said that, have you thought this through?

I have always thought that cynicism is a much under valued quality in Irish politics. For example, if as you suggest it would be a good thing for a quick end to come for this dastardly FF led Government, would the ditch hurlers be able to handle, from a mental health point of view, the utopian situation which might very well ensue, I myself would have concerns, I have to say.

This, tonys, is by any yardstick a pisspoor government and its passing would be lamented only by a few, excepting, of course, the vested interests it serves. A most welcome side-effect of its passing would be the end of Harney's political career. My Möet is being chilled in anticipation.

Will you bring it to the Sibin when the glorious day finally comes? There's a bunch of us here who'd like celebrate her departure from Irish public life with you. Ill put another couple of bottles in the chiller too as there is likely to be quite a crowd for that party!

Aragon wrote:

Slim Buddha wrote:

tonys wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Harney is hanging on to Health like a barnacle onto a rock. Dempsey is a disaster in everything he does and if he had any influence would bankrupt the EU in short time.

Another good reason for an early end to the Fianna Fail government would be the possibility of a better and less cynical appointment to the Commission.

Harumph! Harumph!
Having said that, have you thought this through?

I have always thought that cynicism is a much under valued quality in Irish politics. For example, if as you suggest it would be a good thing for a quick end to come for this dastardly FF led Government, would the ditch hurlers be able to handle, from a mental health point of view, the utopian situation which might very well ensue, I myself would have concerns, I have to say.

This, tonys, is by any yardstick a pisspoor government and its passing would be lamented only by a few, excepting, of course, the vested interests it serves. A most welcome side-effect of its passing would be the end of Harney's political career. My Möet is being chilled in anticipation.

Will you bring it to the Sibin when the glorious day finally comes? There's a bunch of us here who'd like celebrate her departure from Irish public life with you. Ill put another couple of bottles in the chiller too as there is likely to be quite a crowd for that party!

How very apt that would be, a party for and of the champagne socialists. I still say be careful what you wish for, the leap from whinging to doing, is one almighty jump.

tonys wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Harney is hanging on to Health like a barnacle onto a rock. Dempsey is a disaster in everything he does and if he had any influence would bankrupt the EU in short time.

Another good reason for an early end to the Fianna Fail government would be the possibility of a better and less cynical appointment to the Commission.

Harumph! Harumph!
Having said that, have you thought this through?

I have always thought that cynicism is a much under valued quality in Irish politics. For example, if as you suggest it would be a good thing for a quick end to come for this dastardly FF led Government, would the ditch hurlers be able to handle, from a mental health point of view, the utopian situation which might very well ensue, I myself would have concerns, I have to say.

I share your concerns to some extent... FF benefits from the feeling that one should "Always keep a hold of Nurse, for fear of finding something worse". Fine Gael is by its own assessment the Tory Party in Ireland. Labour is too small to put a government together and has its own problems. I don't see Sinn Fein or the Greens as much different to FF.

As to whether dealing with the current Government's legacy, along with global slump, would bring on mental collapse, strangely most politicians seem to be immune from that kind of thing. Responsibility without power is said to be much, much more stressful than power with or without responsibility.

tonys wrote:

Aragon wrote:

Slim Buddha wrote:

tonys wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Harney is hanging on to Health like a barnacle onto a rock. Dempsey is a disaster in everything he does and if he had any influence would bankrupt the EU in short time.

Another good reason for an early end to the Fianna Fail government would be the possibility of a better and less cynical appointment to the Commission.

Harumph! Harumph!
Having said that, have you thought this through?

I have always thought that cynicism is a much under valued quality in Irish politics. For example, if as you suggest it would be a good thing for a quick end to come for this dastardly FF led Government, would the ditch hurlers be able to handle, from a mental health point of view, the utopian situation which might very well ensue, I myself would have concerns, I have to say.

This, tonys, is by any yardstick a pisspoor government and its passing would be lamented only by a few, excepting, of course, the vested interests it serves. A most welcome side-effect of its passing would be the end of Harney's political career. My Möet is being chilled in anticipation.

Will you bring it to the Sibin when the glorious day finally comes? There's a bunch of us here who'd like celebrate her departure from Irish public life with you. Ill put another couple of bottles in the chiller too as there is likely to be quite a crowd for that party!

How very apt that would be, a party for and of the champagne socialists. I still say be careful what you wish for, the leap from whinging to doing, is one almighty jump.

I'm no socialist, tonys, but only the best will do for the departure of one of the worst ministers in our Republic's history. A mendacious hypocrite of the most appalling kind.

tonys wrote:

How very apt that would be, a party for and of the champagne socialists. I still say be careful what you wish for, the leap from whinging to doing, is one almighty jump.

For God's sake Tonys, is that really the best you can do? What a lot of dreary old cliches. As for 'doing' things, Harney is doing the health service and the Irish population over pretty darned well for her husband and his clients. She is the most vile and loathsome politician we have at present - a vicious, cold-eyed, selfish **** where public policy is concerned. A vomit-making spectacle to see this vastly over-paid corporate prostitute savaging the health interests of the people who pay her filthily greedy salary. Geoghegan obviously had dollar signs in his eyes when he saw her coming down the road - and what a cash cow she has turned out to be for him. He must love her very dearly, I'm sure. That's one major scandal that needs a good public airing. The two of them must be dining on champagne and caviar every night by the looks of things - when they are not enjoying publicly funded private jet trips to visit relations in Florida or travelling on other US junkets to their joint clients.

Aragon wrote:

As for 'doing' things, Harney is doing the health service and the Irish population over pretty darned well for her husband and his clients. She is the most vile and loathsome politician we have at present - a vicious, cold-eyed, selfish **** where public policy is concerned. A vomit-making spectacle to see this vastly over-paid corporate prostitute savaging the health interests of the people who pay her filthily greedy salary.

Probably the best minister for Health in 50 years. Certainly the only one to have made some inroads into reforming it.
You would'nt be a member of the illustrious consultants cartel, by any chance????