has anyone read the "ceasar" books by con iguldian.

i did and thought they were great.

also, has anyone read "tyrant" about dionysius 1 (tyrant of syraceus). absolutely brilliant. author valerio manfredi (also read his "alexander" trilogy, also fantastic i thought)

Anyone read "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"? I'm looking at it and wondering whether to start.

cactus flower wrote:

Anyone read "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"? I'm looking at it and wondering whether to start.

I have that book and have skimmed through it. Now that you say it, I must re-read it.

Well Ard, have finally started [/u]Imperium[u] on the commute today and am enjoying it so far. I'll read a few more chapters tomorrow and then re-read the first few pages of this thread. I think you and EVM referred to Imperium there.

I have also inserted a page into the back so I can make a note of the Latin words I haven't come across before. That shouldn't scare anyone. It's a rattling good read, I sped through the first 10 odd chapters today on the train. I didn't do Latin at school so want to understand the terminology ( lictor, tablinum etc ).

I was therefore pretty annoyed at reading this on the BBC website today -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7705922.stm

A number of local councils in the UK have apparently banned the use of Latin words in official documentation as many people are now confused by them. And I have no doubt that a number of people probably are confused or just are completely unfamiliar with the Latin phrases.

This has already been happening at an increasing pace in the legal world over the last 10-odd years.

I have no doubt that a lot of people today may well be confused but I can't help feeling sad that we are losing yet another connection to some vital roots of our society. I have read separately over the last few months that some trial Latin classes in the UK have proved very popular and not only among would-be private school pupils. I genuinely feel it is disrespectful to assume that people are incapable of understanding or making the effort. They just need to be given the opportunity.

Quote :

A Campaign spokesman said the ban might stop people confusing the Latin abbreviation e.g. with the word "egg".

I did Latin for the Junior Cert. Didn't particularly appreciate it at the time but it held me in good stead for future endeavours.

cactus flower wrote:

Quote :

A Campaign spokesman said the ban might stop people confusing the Latin abbreviation e.g. with the word "egg".

Okay so I have to

I also wanted to talk about Hadrian but it's now too late

Will post tomorrow. Finally made it to the Hadrian exhibition in the British Museum, just before it closed. Same problem as ever, admittedly exacerbated by my leaving it so late, i.e. why do so many other people have to turn up early on a Sunday morning when I'm there?! These big exhibitions are problematic, let's be honest. How much do you honestly take from it? Luckily, I managed to elbow aside one particularly annoying chap and got to see everything reasonably well. Will try to post some photos tomorrow, though it might be tricky.

There is a Byzantium exhibition coming up in the Royal Academy which will be a must, might need two visits, but God you have to go in armed and ready!

There are always great exhibitions at the British Museum and the Royal Academy. We are very lucky in that we get invited to the previews of alot of the Royal Academy exhibitions so if our being in London corresponds with such a preview we get a great viewing.

I don't begrudge you but I am envious! I was a member of the Tate Modern and the ICA for a few years and got priority viewing. Always worth it. I really want to go to the Rothko but will I even get near them? At least they're big I guess.

johnfás wrote:

I did Latin for the Junior Cert. Didn't particularly appreciate it at the time but it held me in good stead for future endeavours.

I wanted to do Latin, but my folks wouldnt let me. As they hated it they figured they were doing me a favour.
I was forced to do Music and then Arts and Crafts after I proved myself useless at the latter. (never force your own ideas on a kid). Anyway I agree with Boris Johson in that if they ever try to get the European Union to really work - in that the people of europe can identify with a common heritage, it would be in some way to revive Latin. At least get children across europe to read Virgil's eipid the Aeniad
"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentis."
Worth knowing latin just for that eh?
Actually Johnson's book "the dream of Rome" is a good read. Made me wary of Johnson though, given that it becomes apparant that most unsuspecting of characters, Augustus is actually bumbling Boris' hero and role model.

One thing that fascinates me about the Romans is how our perceptions of them have changed over the last few hundred years.
Today people associate Empire and Gladiators. 200 years ago it was the republican period that people looked back upon. While we are obsessed with Caligula, Nero and Julius Caesar; the great political figures of the enlightenment such as Washington, Jefferson,and Burke looked at Poplicola, Cicero and Cincinatius. As they presaged a new era of liberty by emulating their heros, are we therefore to presage a new era of tyranny(sound very US founding fatherish but it is the 4th of November) by our emphasis on one world rule. Very Caesarish.

The Aeneid is a great read, but I only read it in English. Whilst I only managed Latin for the Junior Cert I progressed to Classical Studies for the Leaving Cert so did the Aeneid, the Odyssey etc etc.

I think there were less than 150 people doing Latin for the Junior Cert the year I sat it.

Atticus wrote:

I also wanted to talk about Hadrian but it's now too late

Will post tomorrow. Finally made it to the Hadrian exhibition in the British Museum, just before it closed. Same problem as ever, admittedly exacerbated by my leaving it so late, i.e. why do so many other people have to turn up early on a Sunday morning when I'm there?! These big exhibitions are problematic, let's be honest. How much do you honestly take from it? Luckily, I managed to elbow aside one particularly annoying chap and got to see everything reasonably well. Will try to post some photos tomorrow, though it might be tricky.

There is a Byzantium exhibition coming up in the Royal Academy which will be a must, might need two visits, but God you have to go in armed and ready!

Lucky you living in London! Would like to hear of the Hadrian exhibition. Part of the spanish mafia wasnt he? First emperor with a beard.

johnfás wrote:

The Aeneid is a great read, but I only read it in English. Whilst I only managed Latin for the Junior Cert I progressed to Classical Studies for the Leaving Cert so did the Aeneid, the Odyssey etc etc.

I think there were less than 150 people doing Latin for the Junior Cert the year I sat it.

Actually I have it on cassette, read in English. Hearing it read aloud is important I think. Hearing read out in Latin(and understanding it ) would be a powerful experience.

150 people studying Latin is pretty sad. And they want to build a united Europe?
I remember a cousin of mine did ancient greek for the leaving(20 years ago). In those days only Belvedere did it. Now I suppose its disapperaed off the curriculum. Barbarians!

It is a very poor figure when you think there were 15 people doing it in my class so we made up 10% of the total national candidates! It must not be taught in more than 20 schools.

Respvblica wrote:

Atticus wrote:

I also wanted to talk about Hadrian but it's now too late

Will post tomorrow. Finally made it to the Hadrian exhibition in the British Museum, just before it closed. Same problem as ever, admittedly exacerbated by my leaving it so late, i.e. why do so many other people have to turn up early on a Sunday morning when I'm there?! These big exhibitions are problematic, let's be honest. How much do you honestly take from it? Luckily, I managed to elbow aside one particularly annoying chap and got to see everything reasonably well. Will try to post some photos tomorrow, though it might be tricky.

There is a Byzantium exhibition coming up in the Royal Academy which will be a must, might need two visits, but God you have to go in armed and ready!

Lucky you living in London! Would like to hear of the Hadrian exhibition. Part of the spanish mafia wasnt he? First emperor with a beard.

It used to be worth joining the RA as a Friend: it wasn't that expensive and you get to jump the queue and get special access, cheap catalogues and so on. Worth a look.

cactus flower wrote:

Anyone read "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"? I'm looking at it and wondering whether to start.

Whatever you do dont buy an abridged version which is what I did. Gibbon is seriously classic literature and I do intend to get the full version one day.

Respvblica wrote:

cactus flower wrote:

Anyone read "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"? I'm looking at it and wondering whether to start.

Whatever you do dont buy an abridged version which is what I did. Gibbon is seriously classic literature and I do intend to get the full version one day.

I love his quote about Mohammed.

The greatest crime, the greatest 'sin' of Mohammad in the eyes of the Christian West is that he did not allow himself to be slaughtered, to be 'crucified' by his enemies. He only defended himself, his family and his followers; and finally vanquished his enemies. Mohammad's success is the Christians' gall of disappointment: He did not believe in any vicarious sacrifices for the sins of others. -- [Edward Gibbon]

My favourite quote from classical studies was Mortimeer Wheeler's description of certain columns being "ostentatious inutility" - the amount of times I have been able to apply that phrase to the excesses of various people .

johnfás wrote:

It is a very poor figure when you think there were 15 people doing it in my class so we made up 10% of the total national candidates! It must not be taught in more than 20 schools.

Oh the memories....
Latin is as dead as dead can be,
It killed the ancient Romans
And now it's killing me!

All this Imperial stuff passed me by. The only thing that stuck to me in any way in five years of Latin was the poetry, and particularly Ovid and Catullus.

Vivamus mea Lesbia, atque amemus,
rumoresque senum severiorum
omnes unius aestimemus assis!
soles occidere et redire possunt:
nobis cum semel occidit brevis lux,
nox est perpetua una dormienda.
da mi basia mille, deinde centum,
dein mille altera, dein secunda centum,
deinde usque altera mille, deinde centum.
dein, cum milia multa fecerimus,
conturbabimus illa, ne sciamus,
aut ne quis malus inuidere possit,
cum tantum sciat esse basiorum.



Great Catullus site here:- http://rudy.negenborn.net/catullus/text2/l5.htm

Ah cactus, you gotta get with the imperialism buzz...

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

Atticus wrote:

Well Ard, have finally started [/u]Imperium[u] on the commute today and am enjoying it so far. I'll read a few more chapters tomorrow and then re-read the first few pages of this thread. I think you and EVM referred to Imperium there.

I have also inserted a page into the back so I can make a note of the Latin words I haven't come across before. That shouldn't scare anyone. It's a rattling good read, I sped through the first 10 odd chapters today on the train. I didn't do Latin at school so want to understand the terminology ( lictor, tablinum etc ).

Excellent, it's a great time to start reading it as the paperback sequel to it, namely Conspiracy, has just been released. You can read this and the next one shortly after. Even though I knew the history already, Harris had me hooked from beginning to end.

A tablinum is a room for the conduct of a Roman noble's business off the entrance hall(vestibule) and a lictor is a fancy-looking bodyguard. The greatest health hazard were varicose veins as you had to stand around for hours on end as your principal, either a praetor or consul just blathered on in meetings.