It's amazing what they can do. Soothe a weary mind or inflame the greatest rage. They truly are the most flexible tool. One use of a word that really bothers me is the discription of European immigrants being "imported" into Ireland. They're not imported by anybody, the choose to come here all by themselves. They are not a good or a service, they are a person. I wouldn't think twice about leaving Ireland for the chance of a better life elsewhere but of course it's not easy, but to be described as an import as well as every other tag that's assigned is too much for me to take. Awful phrase.  

It's only words and words are all I have, to take your heart away....

The Beegees did some tragic things with words, that's for sure. 

I do agree with you though, terming people imports is somewhat of an abomination of language. Some of the hardest working, kindest and most societally engaged people I know are immigrants. From my purely anecdotal experience, it is often people disengaged who criticise groups like immigrants.

It goes back to school I think. I always found when I was in school that the people who 'hated the school' and thought the school was 'so crap' were also quite coincidentally the people who didn't involve themselves with anything outside of class. I found the same was true at university and I find the same is true in wider life.

... don't come easy to me, how can I find a way
too make you see
I love you

words don't come easy

I agree CookieMonster. Words are the be all and end all. I wish I was better with them myself.

Haven't words stirred nations into war, and people into love and changed the fortunes of all sorts of people in all sorts of ways. For better and worser

Is this thread about any words or the power of words or just the word you mentioned ?

Naming something and putting a word on it can be very powerful. Have to admit that I'm not great at naming emotions, feelings and other personality traits and wish I was better at it too.

cookiemonster wrote:

It's amazing what they can do. Soothe a weary mind or inflame the greatest rage. They truly are the most flexible tool. One use of a word that really bothers me is the discription of European immigrants being "imported" into Ireland. They're not imported by anybody, the choose to come here all by themselves. They are not a good or a service, they are a person. I wouldn't think twice about leaving Ireland for the chance of a better life elsewhere but of course it's not easy, but to be described as an import as well as every other tag that's assigned is too much for me to take. Awful phrase.  

Yes, it's something which is frequently used by the anti-immigrant nuts on P.ie. They're completely wrong in thinking we, "import" immigrants from the rest of the world. We'd have to be going to international markets and just rounding people up and putting them in freight containers to, "import" them. We don't do that, ergo, we don't import people.

I also think that words are very important. From my debating days I have learnt to never, ever use the following words when making an argument. They are; all, every, always and completely. If you use these words in an argument, eg, "The US government is completely opposed to the environmental movement" then all the other side have to do is come up with one example and your argument has been fatally undermined. What you should say is, "The US government is one of the least-committed governments to the environmental movement" that means that you can accept the one example the other side come up with and still your argument stands. This because the very phrase, "least-committed" is ambiguous and open to interpretation, a factor you can use to your advantage.

johnfás wrote:

It goes back to school I think. I always found when I was in school that the people who 'hated the school' and thought the school was 'so crap' were also quite coincidentally the people who didn't involve themselves with anything outside of class. I found the same was true at university and I find the same is true in wider life.

I've had exactly the same experience, johnfás. I got involved in the Student Council, Debating Society, Graduation Committees, Drama and the Science Competitions in school and loved my 6 years there. The other people in my class who just drifted through had a far less enjoyable time in school.

I don't like using the term "Aliens" about people either. I had to fill a form in once about a Japanese person working for me and the wording went alon the lines of "The Alien" does this and "The Alien" does that. What a peculiar way to look at other people who happen to have been born somewhere else.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

cookiemonster wrote:

It's amazing what they can do. Soothe a weary mind or inflame the greatest rage. They truly are the most flexible tool. One use of a word that really bothers me is the discription of European immigrants being "imported" into Ireland. They're not imported by anybody, the choose to come here all by themselves. They are not a good or a service, they are a person. I wouldn't think twice about leaving Ireland for the chance of a better life elsewhere but of course it's not easy, but to be described as an import as well as every other tag that's assigned is too much for me to take. Awful phrase.

Yes, it's something which is frequently used by the anti-immigrant nuts on P.ie. They're completely wrong in thinking we, "import" immigrants from the rest of the world. We'd have to be going to international markets and just rounding people up and putting them in freight containers to, "import" them. We don't do that, ergo, we don't import people.

Don't they mostly use "flooding" and the like - as in "immigrants flooding the country"?

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

I also think that words are very important. From my debating days I have learnt to never, ever use the following words when making an argument. They are; all, every, always and completely. If you use these words in an argument, eg, "The US government is completely opposed to the environmental movement" then all the other side have to do is come up with one example and your argument has been fatally undermined. What you should say is, "The US government is one of the least-committed governments to the environmental movement" that means that you can accept the one example the other side come up with and still your argument stands. This because the very phrase, "least-committed" is ambiguous and open to interpretation, a factor you can use to your advantage.

And of course it's very easy to paint your opponent as a pedant if he/she points out your ambiguities - a tactic also employed whenever someone points out any use of loaded terms, emotive language, and begging the question.

ibis wrote:

Don't they mostly use "flooding" and the like - as in "immigrants flooding the country"?

Well, that's when they're going after the immigrants themselves, they use importing when they're going after us traitors and the government who aid and abet the ravishment of Kathleen Ni Houlihanne by John Paul Bloody Foreigner.

Quote :

And of course it's very easy to paint your opponent as a pedant if he/she points out your ambiguities - a tactic also employed whenever someone points out any use of loaded terms, emotive language, and begging the question.

Exactly, if you trade in ambiguities, you can trap your opposition in the fog of your argument.