Ten Ways to Make a Difference to the Environment

cactus flower wrote:Frank McDonald in todays Irish Times suggests 10 ways in which Brian Cowen could make a difference to our environment:

1. Introduce carbon taxes e.g. tax cars on their emissions

Well, as long as polluter pays and correct price signals are sent the market to incentivise the correct reactions.

2. Allow local authorities to raise a domestic rate
3. Abandon decentralisation
4. Urban regeneration of the Cork and Limerick docklands

Wtf have docklands got to do with the environment?

5. Cancel Metro North (6 billion project)- linky to airport by Luas
6. Underground rail link from Heuston to Spencer Dock linking all rail, Luas and Dart lines
7. Relocate Dublin Port to Bremore
8. Cancel the Abbey Theatre rebuild in Docklands

Again, what possibly could this have to do with the environment?

9. Reinstate the Freedom of Information Act

All for transparency in government, but the FOI does next to nothing for the transparency of the ozone layer.

10. Review the M3 route near Tara.

No can do, it's going ahead and that's that. There's been more than enough time before this to review it.

Any comments on Frank's list, and what is your own Top Ten?

it's a load of nonsense. Where is the commitment to increase the share of renewables in our energy mix? Where is the commitment to increase recycling, reusing and composting of waste? Where is the commitment to incentivise our embryonic tidal wave energy sector? Where is the stipulation that public procurement for capital projects must use Irish-made, environmentally-friendly Ecocem? Where are the tax breaks and third-level institutional support for environmentally-innovative Irish companies like Kingspan? They've come up with great environmental products over the past 5 years and haven't had any help from the Government.

Utter fluff in short.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

cactus flower wrote:Frank McDonald in todays Irish Times suggests 10 ways in which Brian Cowen could make a difference to our environment:

1. Introduce carbon taxes e.g. tax cars on their emissions

Well, as long as polluter pays and correct price signals are sent the market to incentivise the correct reactions.

2. Allow local authorities to raise a domestic rate
3. Abandon decentralisation
4. Urban regeneration of the Cork and Limerick docklands

Wtf have docklands got to do with the environment?

5. Cancel Metro North (6 billion project)- linky to airport by Luas
6. Underground rail link from Heuston to Spencer Dock linking all rail, Luas and Dart lines
7. Relocate Dublin Port to Bremore
8. Cancel the Abbey Theatre rebuild in Docklands

Again, what possibly could this have to do with the environment?

9. Reinstate the Freedom of Information Act

All for transparency in government, but the FOI does next to nothing for the transparency of the ozone layer.

10. Review the M3 route near Tara.

No can do, it's going ahead and that's that. There's been more than enough time before this to review it.

Any comments on Frank's list, and what is your own Top Ten?

it's a load of nonsense. Where is the commitment to increase the share of renewables in our energy mix? Where is the commitment to increase recycling, reusing and composting of waste? Where is the commitment to incentivise our embryonic tidal wave energy sector? Where is the stipulation that public procurement for capital projects must use Irish-made, environmentally-friendly Ecocem? Where are the tax breaks and third-level institutional support for environmentally-innovative Irish companies like Kingspan? They've come up with great environmental products over the past 5 years and haven't had any help from the Government.

Utter fluff in short.

I went to have a look at the answers to your questions Ard Taoiseach, but found the article had been placed in the bottom of the kitten's litter tray and was no longer legible. A sad fate for the Journal of Record, but a good outcome in terms of recycling.

cactus flower wrote:

I went to have a look at the answers to your questions Ard Taoiseach, but found the article had been placed in the bottom of the kitten's litter tray and was no longer legible. A sad fate for the Journal of Record, but a good outcome in terms of recycling.

Your use of the paper was better than Frank's considering the total in-substance of his list. The list would make a lot more sense entitled; "Ten Public Works Which Cowen Should Look At".

One thing I agreed with him about, although it would be better placed under your heading, is the Metro North.
17 K of underground rail at a cost of 6 billion euro winding its way through leafy Drumcondra is not going to pay either financially or environmentally.

cactus flower wrote:One thing I agreed with him about, although it would be better placed under your heading, is the Metro North.
17 K of underground rail at a cost of 6 billion euro winding its way through leafy Drumcondra is not going to pay either financially or environmentally.

Yeah, though here would be a better list:

1.Build on the huge success which is the WEEE directive by applying it on other products.
2.Make sure every household has a black, green and brown bin.
3.Invest in wind power through the ESB and open up the market to allow Viridian, Airtricity and anyone else to do like-wise.
4.Continue to increase insulation standards in new-builds and improve tax-breaks for insulation of old houses.
5.Install solar panels, heat pumps, proper insulation, full recycling facilities and clean environments with lots of local plant life in every public building.
6.Provide S. 23 grants for environmentally-friendly building projects.
7.Improve the Afforestation Grant Scheme and commit to cover at least another 10% of Ireland with trees.
8.Create more cycle-lanes around the country and make it more of a viable choice.
9.Significantly incentivise the tidal wave sector with millions and millions spent on research and development.
10.Improve the links between the likes of Kingspan and our universities so they can come up with new and ground-breaking environmental goods for consumption here and export.

It certainly is A-T. I'm off to bed now. Will be getting up early to do the draft proofing.

BTW did you read the good news today that global warming is causing the Sahara to green up again ? warmer seas have caused more rainfall.

cactus flower wrote:It certainly is A-T. I'm off to bed now. Will be getting up early to do the draft proofing.

Surely you mean draught proofing, American!

BTW did you read the good news today that global warming is causing the Sahara to green up again ? warmer seas have caused more rainfall.

I haven't and I must investigate further. It's intriguing to see all the different changes which are occurring as a result of climate change.

The Sahara was a tropical forest in pre-historic times, I believe.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:Your use of the paper was better than Frank's considering the total in-substance of his list. The list would make a lot more sense entitled; "Ten Public Works Which Cowen Should Look At".

I suspect the role of a misguided sub-editor at the Irish Times. Good article, but wrong headline.

As to the methane problem, a simple solution: vegetarianism.

TheSaturdayBoy wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:Your use of the paper was better than Frank's considering the total in-substance of his list. The list would make a lot more sense entitled; "Ten Public Works Which Cowen Should Look At".

I suspect the role of a misguided sub-editor at the Irish Times. Good article, but wrong headline.

As to the methane problem, a simple solution: vegetarianism.

We have visited this topic before (cows - gas - vegetarianism) as apparently it is quite a bit problem for Ireland. Posters here with farm backgrounds say that Ireland is too damp to be good for growing grain and vegetables and that our climate and soils are ideally suited to grass fed cattle. I think its down to the dirty old business of dragging in some referenced data if we want to slug this one out to good effect.

Just to put my cards on the table, unless you count the odd rasher, I never eat meat more than once a week.

TheSaturdayBoy wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:Your use of the paper was better than Frank's considering the total in-substance of his list. The list would make a lot more sense entitled; "Ten Public Works Which Cowen Should Look At".

I suspect the role of a misguided sub-editor at the Irish Times. Good article, but wrong headline.

As to the methane problem, a simple solution: vegetarianism.

But if there is nobody to eat the cows they're just going to keep on gettin' it on till there are loads of them. Then they'll eat us!

Run cow, run...

cactus flower wrote:We have visited this topic before (cows - gas - vegetarianism) as apparently it is quite a bit problem for Ireland. Posters here with farm backgrounds say that Ireland is too damp to be good for growing grain and vegetables and that our climate and soils are ideally suited to grass fed cattle. I think its down to the dirty old business of dragging in some referenced data if we want to slug this one out to good effect.

Just to put my cards on the table, unless you count the odd rasher, I never eat meat more than once a week.

I can't throw in any detailed irish data, but talking globally, it makes environmental and ethical sense to move away from a high meat diet. As I understand it, the land required to produce your pound of meat, is significantly more that that required to produce an equivalent amount of vegetables / grain etc. Leaving the environment out of it for a minute, in a time of growing food shortages, using a more efficient way of creating food makes sense. And throw in the environmental impacts - whether that's methane production of deforestation, the argument for a low-meat or no-meat diet becomes compelling.

Apparently if everyone in the US switched to a vegan diet it would have a greater beneficial effect on carbon emissions than if they all ditched their SUVs... food, as it were, for thought.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

cactus flower wrote:One thing I agreed with him about, although it would be better placed under your heading, is the Metro North.
17 K of underground rail at a cost of 6 billion euro winding its way through leafy Drumcondra is not going to pay either financially or environmentally.

Yeah, though here would be a better list:

1.Build on the huge success which is the WEEE directive by applying it on other products.
2.Make sure every household has a black, green and brown bin.
3.Invest in wind power through the ESB and open up the market to allow Viridian, Airtricity and anyone else to do like-wise.
4.Continue to increase insulation standards in new-builds and improve tax-breaks for insulation of old houses.
5.Install solar panels, heat pumps, proper insulation, full recycling facilities and clean environments with lots of local plant life in every public building.
6.Provide S. 23 grants for environmentally-friendly building projects.
7.Improve the Afforestation Grant Scheme and commit to cover at least another 10% of Ireland with trees.
8.Create more cycle-lanes around the country and make it more of a viable choice.
9.Significantly incentivise the tidal wave sector with millions and millions spent on research and development.
10.Improve the links between the likes of Kingspan and our universities so they can come up with new and ground-breaking environmental goods for consumption here and export.

Or just introduce a Carbon Tax.

seinfeld wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

cactus flower wrote:One thing I agreed with him about, although it would be better placed under your heading, is the Metro North.
17 K of underground rail at a cost of 6 billion euro winding its way through leafy Drumcondra is not going to pay either financially or environmentally.

Yeah, though here would be a better list:

1.Build on the huge success which is the WEEE directive by applying it on other products.
2.Make sure every household has a black, green and brown bin.
3.Invest in wind power through the ESB and open up the market to allow Viridian, Airtricity and anyone else to do like-wise.
4.Continue to increase insulation standards in new-builds and improve tax-breaks for insulation of old houses.
5.Install solar panels, heat pumps, proper insulation, full recycling facilities and clean environments with lots of local plant life in every public building.
6.Provide S. 23 grants for environmentally-friendly building projects.
7.Improve the Afforestation Grant Scheme and commit to cover at least another 10% of Ireland with trees.
8.Create more cycle-lanes around the country and make it more of a viable choice.
9.Significantly incentivise the tidal wave sector with millions and millions spent on research and development.
10.Improve the links between the likes of Kingspan and our universities so they can come up with new and ground-breaking environmental goods for consumption here and export.

Or just introduce a Carbon Tax.

Which one do you prefer, seinfeld?

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

seinfeld wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

cactus flower wrote:One thing I agreed with him about, although it would be better placed under your heading, is the Metro North.
17 K of underground rail at a cost of 6 billion euro winding its way through leafy Drumcondra is not going to pay either financially or environmentally.

Yeah, though here would be a better list:

1.Build on the huge success which is the WEEE directive by applying it on other products.
2.Make sure every household has a black, green and brown bin.
3.Invest in wind power through the ESB and open up the market to allow Viridian, Airtricity and anyone else to do like-wise.
4.Continue to increase insulation standards in new-builds and improve tax-breaks for insulation of old houses.
5.Install solar panels, heat pumps, proper insulation, full recycling facilities and clean environments with lots of local plant life in every public building.
6.Provide S. 23 grants for environmentally-friendly building projects.
7.Improve the Afforestation Grant Scheme and commit to cover at least another 10% of Ireland with trees.
8.Create more cycle-lanes around the country and make it more of a viable choice.
9.Significantly incentivise the tidal wave sector with millions and millions spent on research and development.
10.Improve the links between the likes of Kingspan and our universities so they can come up with new and ground-breaking environmental goods for consumption here and export.

Or just introduce a Carbon Tax.

Which one do you prefer, seinfeld?

Economic history dictates that while unpopular, fiscal incentives are by far the most effective and efficient way of influencing behaviour.

seinfeld wrote:

Which one do you prefer, seinfeld?

Economic history dictates that while unpopular, fiscal incentives are by far the most effective and efficient way of influencing behaviour.[/quote]

True, but, at the same time, we need to build an infrastructure of environmentally-friendly ways of doing things. My list is not exhaustive, but I feel it brings a new dimension to this area.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
True, but, at the same time, we need to build an infrastructure of environmentally-friendly ways of doing things. My list is not exhaustive, but I feel it brings a new dimension to this area.

The Market can solve the problem of Climate Change far more efficiently than the State. The State needs to recognise this, and leave the Market with no option other than to reduce its dependency on carbon.

seinfeld wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
True, but, at the same time, we need to build an infrastructure of environmentally-friendly ways of doing things. My list is not exhaustive, but I feel it brings a new dimension to this area.

The Market can solve the problem of Climate Change far more efficiently than the State. The State needs to recognise this, and leave the Market with no option other than to reduce its dependency on carbon.

But where would the incidence of tax lie? With consumers in the form of higher prices for goods? With employees who have to accept lower wages in order to pay their work-place's carbon tax bill? With suppliers who will have to accept lower prices for their input materials?

It's a tough ask to ensure that the burden of tax falls correctly and doesn't end up impoverishing a section of society which doesn't deserve it.

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:

seinfeld wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
True, but, at the same time, we need to build an infrastructure of environmentally-friendly ways of doing things. My list is not exhaustive, but I feel it brings a new dimension to this area.

The Market can solve the problem of Climate Change far more efficiently than the State. The State needs to recognise this, and leave the Market with no option other than to reduce its dependency on carbon.

But where would the incidence of tax lie? With consumers in the form of higher prices for goods? With employees who have to accept lower wages in order to pay their work-place's carbon tax bill? With suppliers who will have to accept lower prices for their input materials?

It's a tough ask to ensure that the burden of tax falls correctly and doesn't end up impoverishing a section of society which doesn't deserve it.

A Carbon Tax is an elective consumer tax.

Its is applied to importers of hydrocarbon fuels and ultimately falls on consumers who elect to use those fuels, either directly or indirectly.

Interim measures are introduced to reduce the impact on people who are vulnerable and who cannot easily adapt, but a fiscal measure like a Carbon Tax will only ever be effective if it is felt in some measure by *all* consumers.

I believe a cat produces more carbon dioxide than a car. I would kill all the cats. There is according to this site just under a million cats in Ireland producing carbon dioxide 24 hours a day 7 days a week. http://www.exp.ie/Member.asp?Mid=3926
There is also 650000 dogs which would be no loss either. There is 380 Euro spent on these useless animals each year. This would be better used to feed the poor. The owners could be given a stuffed animal instead. They could pay a license fee for the stuffed animal. The money raised could be used for windmills. The french aircar could be bought which produced zero pollution http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news1.7c.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov4t1P9bdGw
This video above shows that for 1.5 Euros you get 200 km. Don't expect Cowen to tell you about this

I still haven't heard what energy is used to compress the air. Any idea youngdan?

youngdan wrote:these useless animals each year

What purpose do humans serve?

cactus flower wrote:I still haven't heard what energy is used to compress the air. Any idea youngdan?

Great question of course. I don't know is the answer more specifically I don't know how much of another energy needs to be expended to compress the air needed for your spin (€1.50 worth of air in the example drives 200 miles).

I know this - it'll be easier to find a local source of energy to compress that air (than petrol) - pumping with your own feet, burning local materials to force air compression, even your own jogging on the treadmill could contribute to filling your car (again the question is how much energy) or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55Y9oo_U5ko

Cactus. Have a look at the bbc video. It is compressed air. It is no different than the compressed air that you use to inflate your tire. The bbc states that it cost 1.5 Euro to fill up. Anything that disturbs the gravy train of big oil is suppressed. If Cowen wanted to help the environment or the people he would have Ireland full of these vehicles. Cowen is out for himself. These carbon taxes are the biggest scam ever and this is just more proof.

youngdan wrote:I believe a cat produces more carbon dioxide than a car. I would kill all the cats. There is according to this site just under a million cats in Ireland producing carbon dioxide 24 hours a day 7 days a week. http://www.exp.ie/Member.asp?Mid=3926
There is also 650000 dogs which would be no loss either. There is 380 Euro spent on these useless animals each year. This would be better used to feed the poor. The owners could be given a stuffed animal instead. They could pay a license fee for the stuffed animal. The money raised could be used for windmills. The french aircar could be bought which produced zero pollution http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news1.7c.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov4t1P9bdGw
This video above shows that for 1.5 Euros you get 200 km. Don't expect Cowen to tell you about this

youngdan

The introduction of the aircars, which would be adequet for most uses would win a reprieve for the cats. The serious question is why is the aircar not on the road. The answer is it could not be taxed on it's fuel. It is all about the pound note. Cowen looks like who knows what in that video from Offally. I expect more of a top 10 list than a call for carbon taxes at the top. The misconception is that politicians are public servants. They are just out for themselves and that song about himself should be enough to have Cowen ran out of town. The Kerryman with the cap has more cop-on than Cowen