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 The M50 Toll - WTF

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PostSubject: The M50 Toll - WTF   Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:13 pm

I caught a bit of a discussion on the radio last night about the M50 toll. The NRA representative ripped into a corporate type who seemed to be saying the NRA was advertising a service (selling toll passes?) that they had not agreed to provide. The manner of the NRA guy did not seem to bode well for future negotiations.

The horrible vista seemed to be opening up that the many people who use the M50 on an occasional basis to reach the airport and so on will either be expected to buy a 40 euro annual pass or find somewhere to buy some kind of pass card????)

Does anyone know what is being proposed, and if it has any chance of working?
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:07 pm

I was commissioned by the parents to look into the best option for my family. The joys of being the youngest and currently not working!!

Essentially there are three options, as I understand it:

1) You get a tag in your car. These tags already exist and many people already have them. There are about 10 different providers of them and they range in price and whether or not there is a monthly administration fee. In essence though, you are looking at 30 euro for the tag and then 1 euro per month for an administration fee. That means you will pay roughly 42 euro in your first year even if you don't cross the bridge and 12 euro per year thereafter. The cost of crossing the bridge with a tag will be €2.00.

2) You can register your car registration plate online with the NRA. Their cameras will read your registration plate and then you will be automatically billed each time you cross. It is a bit like a mobile phone, you can either opt to be billed monthly for whatever is outstanding or you can prepay and put credit on periodically. The cost of using this service per crossing is €2.50.

3) You can do nothing. Everytime you cross, it will read your registration plate and you then have I think it is 48 hours to pay your dues either at various outlets, online or over the telephone. If you don't do it you get a fine. The cost of using this method each time you cross is €3.00.


We decided to go for option two. We don't cross the bridge enough for a tag to be economical. You would have to cross it 24 times a year in order to make back the administration fee and 60 times to make back the cost of the tag.
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:40 pm

The eFlow ads running on the radio this morning claimed the tags were free if you registered now, but the eflow.ie website is worryingly coy about how much they cost. IIRC, we (the taxpayers) have already paid handsomely for this fine bridge, so I'm not inclined to pay for it again, certainly not in €2 installments. Anyone up for Bintifada II?

I confidently predict that the removal of these tolls will feature in manifestos at the next general election.

Don't stop me now? Don't get me started more like!
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:52 pm

Check out option 4. Cool

Substitute 'hat' with 'registration plate.' Don't forget to do the back one too.

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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:47 pm

johnfás wrote:
I was commissioned by the parents to look into the best option for my family. The joys of being the youngest and currently not working!!

Essentially there are three options, as I understand it:

1) You get a tag in your car. These tags already exist and many people already have them. There are about 10 different providers of them and they range in price and whether or not there is a monthly administration fee. In essence though, you are looking at 30 euro for the tag and then 1 euro per month for an administration fee. That means you will pay roughly 42 euro in your first year even if you don't cross the bridge and 12 euro per year thereafter. The cost of crossing the bridge with a tag will be €2.00.

2) You can register your car registration plate online with the NRA. Their cameras will read your registration plate and then you will be automatically billed each time you cross. It is a bit like a mobile phone, you can either opt to be billed monthly for whatever is outstanding or you can prepay and put credit on periodically. The cost of using this service per crossing is €2.50.

3) You can do nothing. Everytime you cross, it will read your registration plate and you then have I think it is 48 hours to pay your dues either at various outlets, online or over the telephone. If you don't do it you get a fine. The cost of using this method each time you cross is €3.00.


We decided to go for option two. We don't cross the bridge enough for a tag to be economical. You would have to cross it 24 times a year in order to make back the administration fee and 60 times to make back the cost of the tag.

Tourists and business people arriving from the airport ?

They are going to love this.
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:51 pm

Hermes wrote:
Check out option 4. Cool

Substitute 'hat' with 'registration plate.' Don't forget to do the back one too.


Is this current anarchist headwear Hermes? I loved this video. We should club together and get one for Atticus, who is rightly on the warpath against CCTV UK.
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:08 am

johnfás wrote:



We decided to go for option two. We don't cross the bridge enough for a tag to be economical. You would have to cross it 24 times a year in order to make back the administration fee and 60 times to make back the cost of the tag.

This is very valuable research johnfás, and thank you for taking the time to share it with the Machine National Commonwealth. On foot of this I shall recommend to the Ard-Taoiseach household to opt for plan B. That would also be the most economical for us.
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:07 am

Hermes wrote:
Check out option 4. Cool

Substitute 'hat' with 'registration plate.' Don't forget to do the back one too.




Laughing Laughing good idea for the car; headgear doesn't suit me personally, though!
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:30 am

In spite of the fact that this poxy bridge has been paid for many times over, it is continuing to get more and more expensive. Poxy scumbags.

I have to go now, this topic is too painful for me...
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:26 pm

I can foresee that I will get thick about this and will end up paying twice as much as I needed to.

Mad

I would be interested to know how they will charge cars hired at the airport (add on to rental ?). The idea of having to drive around looking for a shop to buy a pass in is even less attractive to me than the occasional queue on the M50.
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:39 pm

Was this bridge an enormous cock-up from day 1 or what? Was it like the Bertie/Burke Irish Oilfields Giveaway Bonanza in that the builders or operators were given a deal that profited them out of all proportion to their initial inputs? And the story at that time was "sure it'll hardly get busier than a few cars a week".

Let's just apply the vaseline ourselves for the next few bridges or plazas that are getting erected..
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:44 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Was this bridge an enormous cock-up from day 1 or what? Was it like the Bertie/Burke Irish Oilfields Giveaway Bonanza in that the builders or operators were given a deal that profited them out of all proportion to their initial inputs? And the story at that time was "sure it'll hardly get busier than a few cars a week".

Let's just apply the vaseline ourselves for the next few bridges or plazas that are getting erected..

If Chavez was in charge he would nationalise it and say to the lads that they have made plenty out of it thanks very much.
He would also slap on a tax on any oil/gas going out of the country.
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:01 am

cactus flower wrote:

If Chavez was in charge he would nationalise it and say to the lads that they have made plenty out of it thanks very much.
He would also slap on a tax on any oil/gas going out of the country.
Is he running in the locals next year by any chance?

I have no problem with profits per se, I think, I have a problem with excessive profits - sign of cartelism and other skulldudgery that could do with a good stamping out. How much profits have NTR made do any of ye know?

Really really we need that Book published every year with the balance of payments of the country laid out in a clear format which shows the madness of what's going on. Have we enough brains here to get something cooked up and published do ye think?

For example, there is a public toilet in a West Clare town, Kilrush, which costs 40,000 a year to keep. Apparently it gets around 20,000 a year in revenue... it's one of those nice black ones but 40k a year .. Shocked

Now, why does it cost 40k a year to clean a fecking toilet? This was reported in the Clarepeople last week or the week before and said the fact had made it to wikipedia but I haven't seen it in there.

40k and one school in Ennis is housing children in prefabs omg the utter mismanagement...
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:17 am

cactus flower wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
Was this bridge an enormous cock-up from day 1 or what? Was it like the Bertie/Burke Irish Oilfields Giveaway Bonanza in that the builders or operators were given a deal that profited them out of all proportion to their initial inputs? And the story at that time was "sure it'll hardly get busier than a few cars a week".

Let's just apply the vaseline ourselves for the next few bridges or plazas that are getting erected..

If Chavez was in charge he would nationalise it and say to the lads that they have made plenty out of it thanks very much.
He would also slap on a tax on any oil/gas going out of the country.

If Chavez was in charge, we would see a flight of MNCs from the country, our investment reputation destroyed, the IFSC turned into a wasteland and a collapse in our wealth-creating capacity in high value industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, chemicals, electronic engineering and software. We don't need socialist claptrap, we need sensible economic liberalism. If there's anyone to look to for lessons on how to manage our natural resources, it's our Atlantic-bound counterparts in Norway, not MiniMao of Venezuela.
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:27 am

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
Was this bridge an enormous cock-up from day 1 or what? Was it like the Bertie/Burke Irish Oilfields Giveaway Bonanza in that the builders or operators were given a deal that profited them out of all proportion to their initial inputs? And the story at that time was "sure it'll hardly get busier than a few cars a week".

Let's just apply the vaseline ourselves for the next few bridges or plazas that are getting erected..

If Chavez was in charge he would nationalise it and say to the lads that they have made plenty out of it thanks very much.
He would also slap on a tax on any oil/gas going out of the country.

If Chavez was in charge, we would see a flight of MNCs from the country, our investment reputation destroyed, the IFSC turned into a wasteland and a collapse in our wealth-creating capacity in high value industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, chemicals, electronic engineering and software. We don't need socialist claptrap, we need sensible economic liberalism. If there's anyone to look to for lessons on how to manage our natural resources, it's our Atlantic-bound counterparts in Norway, not MiniMao of Venezuela.
*hugz*
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:33 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
Is he running in the locals next year by any chance?

I hope not. We have enough fringe socialists as it is.

Quote :
I have no problem with profits per se, I think, I have a problem with excessive profits - sign of cartelism and other skulldudgery that could do with a good stamping out. How much profits have NTR made do any of ye know?

Either do I. Profits are a necessary part of a functioning market economy. If there were no profits, entrepreneurs would not invest, businesses would not be created, taxes would not be paid, people would not be employed. Everything in the economy would begin to seize up. Excessive profits are also a problem since they distort markets, encourage inefficiency and so on. They are best stamped not by some interfering government, but by the free play of market forces. Let competitors into the industry to take the supernormal profit. Jobs are created, taxation revenue generated, prices are reduced, inefficiencies ruthlessly exposed and forced out, innovation grows and productivity improves. NTR made 86.5 million euro in EBITDA last year.

Quote :
Really really we need that Book published every year with the balance of payments of the country laid out in a clear format which shows the madness of what's going on. Have we enough brains here to get something cooked up and published do ye think?

If you read CSO releases of National Accounts, Industry censi, Balance of Payments and External Debt closely enough, you can build a picture of who gets what in this country.

Quote :
For example, there is a public toilet in a West Clare town, Kilrush, which costs 40,000 a year to keep. Apparently it gets around 20,000 a year in revenue... it's one of those nice black ones but 40k a year .. Shocked

Now, why does it cost 40k a year to clean a fecking toilet? This was reported in the Clarepeople last week or the week before and said the fact had made it to wikipedia but I haven't seen it in there.

Labour costs would be many thousands, materials a thousand more, administration would be another expense and the public service's natural ability to magically expand budgets would get you there.

Quote :
40k and one school in Ennis is housing children in prefabs omg the utter mismanagement...

Well, you get that with the public service, if it had to compete with another public service, management would improve. That isn't practicable however, so we must muddle through.
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:38 am

cookiemonster wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
Was this bridge an enormous cock-up from day 1 or what? Was it like the Bertie/Burke Irish Oilfields Giveaway Bonanza in that the builders or operators were given a deal that profited them out of all proportion to their initial inputs? And the story at that time was "sure it'll hardly get busier than a few cars a week".

Let's just apply the vaseline ourselves for the next few bridges or plazas that are getting erected..

If Chavez was in charge he would nationalise it and say to the lads that they have made plenty out of it thanks very much.
He would also slap on a tax on any oil/gas going out of the country.

If Chavez was in charge, we would see a flight of MNCs from the country, our investment reputation destroyed, the IFSC turned into a wasteland and a collapse in our wealth-creating capacity in high value industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, chemicals, electronic engineering and software. We don't need socialist claptrap, we need sensible economic liberalism. If there's anyone to look to for lessons on how to manage our natural resources, it's our Atlantic-bound counterparts in Norway, not MiniMao of Venezuela.
*hugz*

Smile I love your hugs. The blue, downy fur is so comforting. I'm a right-wing economic liberal and I don't care who knows it!
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:56 am

How you like my new image now gringo ? Eh, perrito de Jorge Boosh?
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:58 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
How you like my new image now gringo ? Eh, perrito de Jorge Boosh?

Hmmm, they have so thoughtfully stood together. It makes things easier.
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:00 am

[quote="Ard-Taoiseach]I'm a right-wing economic liberal and I don't care who knows it![/quote]You go, Girlfriend! 
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:03 am

cookiemonster wrote:
[quote="Ard-Taoiseach]I'm a right-wing economic liberal and I don't care who knows it!
You go, Girlfriend! [/quote]

Uh huh, I just did. Bring it, Chavez, cos you goin' down!
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:14 am

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
cookiemonster wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
I'm a right-wing economic liberal and I don't care who knows it!
You go, Girlfriend! 

Uh huh, I just did. Bring it, Chavez, cos you goin' down!
No! Vosotras abajos! I speet on jour capitalismo moribundo ! Hijas de la gran puta! Ptoo!
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:18 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
cookiemonster wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
I'm a right-wing economic liberal and I don't care who knows it!
You go, Girlfriend! 

Uh huh, I just did. Bring it, Chavez, cos you goin' down!
No! Vosotras abajos! I speet on jour capitalismo moribundo ! Hijas de la gran puta! Ptoo!

Whateva, the economic exigencies and realities of the limitations of socialist economic principles in a human context and set against the reality that open market capitalism allied with a well-functioning liberal democracy is the only truly sustainable path to riches is gonna bring yo house a' cards crashin' down beeatch!!!
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:45 am

Como?!

In jour country eez the gasolina 5$ a litrona when een Venezuela ees 15 centimos ! Toma, conio!

Soon jou weel be buying the bicycle from the Venezuela when jour dollar is so sheet all jour capitalismo americano industriales only make the jeep you are jodido senor you willl only buy the bicycle from the Venezuela jou cabr*n! Toma!

Your arseholds you tax the sheet from your bridge you will feel it when the Venezuela have all the oil and jou have nada! Ni siquiera los motocicletas de los barrios pobres de Rio de Janerio o Caracas.

Adios, ladrones!
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PostSubject: Re: The M50 Toll - WTF   Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:48 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
Como?!

In jour country eez the gasolina 5$ a litrona when een Venezuela ees 15 centimos ! Toma, conio!

Soon jou weel be buying the bicycle from the Venezuela when jour dollar is so sheet all jour capitalismo americano industriales only make the jeep you are jodido senor you willl only buy the bicycle from the Venezuela jou cabr*n! Toma!

Your arseholds you tax the sheet from your bridge you will feel it when the Venezuela have all the oil and jou have nada! Ni siquiera los motocicletas de los barrios pobres de Rio de Janerio o Caracas.

Adios, ladrones!

*sigh* A petroleum dictator living in a hydrogen world. We're moving on. The new age of hydrogen is upon us and we'll be taking that air-powered bus in the next decade. We'll be energy self-sufficient so we can nuke your precious Caracas and make maracases with the rubble!
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