Gramadach - A Dhia Tabhair Neart Dom!

Guest

Gaeilge nó Béarla anois??

Tuigim gramadach. Mhúin mé Gearmánach agus tá luth na teanga agam. Tuigim conas aidiachtaí a úsáid... and I understand case and gender but I haven't a notion in Irish.

iora rua - an t-iora rua

How do I know??

The Grammar of Irish Nouns 101 - any volunteers?

Guest

masculine an madra
an t-uisce
an sagart
an cailín fionn

feminine
an bhean
an ealaíon
an tsráid
an bhean fhionn

Guest

All of the above are in the Tuiseal Aimneach? Nominative case?

You haven't mentioned the D word

declension (díochlaonadh? from memory). We don't have them in German.

How do I know what words are masculine and which are feminine? Cailín is masculine...

Guest

Kate P wrote:: All of the above are in the Tuiseal Aimneach? Nominative case?

You haven't mentioned the D word

declension (díochlaonadh? from memory). We don't have them in German.

How do I know what words are masculine and which are feminine? Cailín is masculine...

There is a simple rule, words in a broad noun are masculine, words ending in a slender are feminine.

However, that works in about a ratio of 55:45 :-)

Really what one looks at are endings. Declensions give some indication, but there are for example masculine words in the 2nd declension, and the fourth and fifth declensions have a mixture. Declensions really define how words react in the genitive.

First declension slenderises broad endings án becomes áin ar becomes air etc etc. These are all masculine.

Second declension adds an e and slenderises (where necessary) consonsants. Áit - áite im- ime etc. This are mostly feminine except for sléibh, teach, and im.

Third declension broadens final nouns and adds an a. For example, barbóir barbora, feirmeoir feirmeora etc etc. This are all masculine.

The fourth declension does nothing. Tine tine, these are mainly feminine, though there is a strong amount of masculine nouns here too.

The fifth declension broadens, or adds a broad ending. Máthair- máthar, athair- athar, eochair eochrach.

Words that are masculine tend to end in -án -ár -ín -eoir -óir also all concrete nouns ending in a vowel.

Feminine ones end in -an -ain -óg -eog -lann -air and all abstract nouns ending in a vowel.

There are more which I can't currently think of.

Guest

Quote :: There is a simple rule, words in a broad noun are masculine, words ending in a slender are feminine.

However, that works in about a ratio of 55:45 :-)

Really what one looks at are endings.

and

Quote :: Words that are masculine tend to end in -án -ár -ín -eoir -óir also all concrete nouns ending in a vowel.

Feminine ones end in -an -ain -óg -eog -lann -air and all abstract nouns ending in a vowel.

refer to gender in the most general sense.

Are declensions only relevant in the genitive case or do nouns (or adjectives) change in the other cases too?

Is it worth (Kate P struggles valiantly to suppress her inner ex-teacher) learning the declensions as I come across new words?

And what cases are used in Irish? German only uses Nominative, Accusative, Genitive and Dative - though I remember being told in TCD about an old case called the Ablative for which the wonderful Sheila Watts gave the example. 'She killed him with an axe." I presume the same has happened to Irish; that some cases have faded out of real use (apart from quirky phrases that survive with relentless self-righteousness).

Guest

Kate P wrote:: Are declensions only relevant in the genitive case or do nouns (or adjectives) change in the other cases too?

Some inflections do occur in the dative case, but these are dying away. Declensions don't determine these however (and of course adjectives had a different set of declensions.

Quote :: Is it worth (Kate P struggles valiantly to suppress her inner ex-teacher) learning the declensions as I come across new words?

I never did to be honest. However, it is worth having a look at the genitive case. After a while, it becomes natural to obtain the genitive from the nominative.

Quote :: And what cases are used in Irish? German only uses Nominative, Accusative, Genitive and Dative - though I remember being told in TCD about an old case called the Ablative for which the wonderful Sheila Watts gave the example. 'She killed him with an axe." I presume the same has happened to Irish; that some cases have faded out of real use (apart from quirky phrases that survive with relentless self-righteousness).

I'm not sure I get the reference. I always thought the ablative was the case that decided directional or stationary prepositions. It's decided by dative and accusative in German, the same was true for Irish except the other way around. Most cases have fallen out of use. The nominative and the accusative are the same, and the dative only initially mutates, due to the preposition, and sometimes inflects.