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 Is the Irish Independent Lying?

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PostSubject: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:18 pm

It appears that the Irish Independent is telling straightforward lies about a poll it says shows that Irish people voted no on the basis of falsehoods and misinformation. Full details on the dublinopinion blog:

http://dublinopinion.com/2008/06/17/the-irish-independent-and-the-non-existent-european-commission-report/

Please add question marks at the end of questions, please-Ard-Taoiseach.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:27 pm

Its outrageous, Aragon - I've referred to this Poll in the Mainland thread in a different context as well - I failed to spot its lack of bona fides. I did notice that it claimed immigration was a factor when the Irish Times poll showed it was not.

This siúcra is now spinning its way around the world and will stay in the archives permanently.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:27 pm

Aragon wrote:
It appears that the Irish Independent is telling straightforward lies about a poll it says shows that Irish people voted no on the basis of falsehoods and misinformation. Full details on the dublinopinion blog:

http://dublinopinion.com/2008/06/17/the-irish-independent-and-the-non-existent-european-commission-report/

Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:30 pm

God bless the Internet and bloggers. Can't get away with much these days, thankfully.

What'll Sheehan say to this now ?
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:36 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
God bless the Internet and bloggers. Can't get away with much these days, thankfully.

What'll Sheehan say to this now ?

If this is true Sheehan has been caught red-handed with his pants down...ahem....as Bertie would say.....whistles......disappears 'round corner
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:39 pm

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect


Indeed.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:13 pm

It could still be based on raw data leaked from the commission ? Innocent until proven guilty ?
The proof will be next week when the report gets published..
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:18 pm

Why do I never get raw data leaked from the commission?

Who can? Why?
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:18 pm

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
It could still be based on raw data leaked from the commission ? Innocent until proven guilty ?
The proof will be next week when the report gets published..

The proof will be right here ...



All the same, if it was based on raw data and was not approved, that should have been said in the article.
One would also want to be able to see the questions asked.


Last edited by Ard-Taoiseach on Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : to fix cactus flower's picture.)
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:22 pm

If it is based on a Commission survey, which it is, then the results will be published in the usual way, including questions. Such a survey has certainly been done.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:00 pm

It does look like a police state though. I'm not sure the Commission should have a mandate for monitoring the political opinions of the populations concerning treaties.

I hope a database of eurosceptics who shouldn't get a job in the EU institutions doesn't exist. Yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:19 pm

arnaudherve wrote:
It does look like a police state though. I'm not sure the Commission should have a mandate for monitoring the political opinions of the populations concerning treaties.

I hope a database of eurosceptics who shouldn't get a job in the EU institutions doesn't exist. Yet.

Anyone has a right to conduct a survey. You don't need a mandate for it. People will either answer or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:26 pm

Nope, you can conduct a survey, but a public institution has the right to spend money only for specific mandates. Even in the case of very good actions, it would still be called corruption.

Furthermore it usually considered as bad practice that a public institution extends beyond strict areas of competence.

I find the action of monitoring votes that concern the institution, and furthermore leaking info to selected journalists, very very borderline.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:28 pm

Oh. Good point Arnaud. I must agree there is a distinction.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:43 am

So the EU should ideally have no idea of public opinion?
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:54 am

ibis wrote:
So the EU should ideally have no idea of public opinion?

Yes of course. That's not in question. The method is in question.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:26 am

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
ibis wrote:
So the EU should ideally have no idea of public opinion?

Yes of course. That's not in question. The method is in question.

Hmm. How should they do it?
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:35 am

ibis wrote:
EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
ibis wrote:
So the EU should ideally have no idea of public opinion?

Yes of course. That's not in question. The method is in question.

Hmm. How should they do it?

The same way the Sindo does it's polls? Ring their only agreeable family member
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:40 am

ibis wrote:
EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
ibis wrote:
So the EU should ideally have no idea of public opinion?

Yes of course. That's not in question. The method is in question.

Hmm. How should they do it?

Well, how did they do it ?

They should put it out to tender.

Or not do it at all.

Or do do it, but keep a degree of seperation between those with motive and those with method.

Anyway, I can't answer it on such short notice. I normally mull stuff over for 2 weeks. I once mulled something over for 3 years. So 3 hours is a bit ambitious. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:45 am

ibis wrote:

Hmm. How should they do it?
Put a machine inside everyone's house What a Face
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:48 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
ibis wrote:

Hmm. How should they do it?
Put a machine inside everyone's house What a Face

Cool. I'm off......Tanaiste. Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:08 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:18 pm

Helium Three wrote:
Link to the tele-poll prelim report published today.

I'm getting a 404 on that link Helium.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:21 pm

Yes so am I - it has just been shut down for some reason Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Irish Independent Lying?   Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:23 pm

I pasted a good bit in the other thread. But it still was opening for me a minute ago.
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