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 Swirly pipes revisited

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PostSubject: Re: Swirly pipes revisited   Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:10 am

Laughing

You're gas AfricanDave ! you obviously didn't see the thread a few of us kept going for a week once on p.ie - it concerned the efficiencies of twisty pipes over normal straight pipes so there would be an energy saving at the pump driving the water around. It was originally posted in Environment by Qtman. ibis was involved and so was EvotingMachine and we compared the twisty pipes to the barrel of a gun; some lads dragged in fluid equations; others dragged in other theories and it went on for a week anyway.

It was one of the best threads on p.ie ever.

Edit
They were called "swirly pipes" (duh)
http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?f=160&t=28243
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PostSubject: Re: Swirly pipes revisited   Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:23 am

I didn't see that thread, but it is an interesting idea. I would imagine the straight pipes would work slightly more efficiently than twisty ones (and maybe save something in manufacturing).
Another issue here is with the fluid equations. Would the percentage of coolant/anti-freeze in the water make a difference? ie. If the coolant has a different viscosity the pump would have to exert more effort to pump it around the system...?
I know it seems petty but without viable alternatives to fossil fuels these are the things manufacturers have to consider in order to squeeze every mile from every drop of fuel
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PostSubject: Re: Swirly pipes revisited   Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:24 am

Coolant is very fluid already isn't it? I think it has a low viscosity..

The question on the swirly pipes is still very interesting if you imagine water pipes through a city or large building rather than a house; if there is an appreciable difference in work the pump has to do then somehow the water flows more easily in the swirly pipe as opposed to the straight one though there must be a bit more energy involved in their manufacture initially ...

When I imagine the water spiralling inside the pipe, it seems somehow right that it might travel with less effort in a swirling motion. Is it lack of friction because the water will be getting (I imagine) pushed more through the centre of the pipe?
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PostSubject: Re: Swirly pipes revisited   Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:45 am

This is a fascinating discussion. Would it be disruptive to split it and open it as a new thread called something like
Quote :
Sibin chat on inventive engines and household fuels .....?
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PostSubject: Re: Swirly pipes revisited   Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:50 pm

Conversation taken to the boiler room of the Síbín

-Audi
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PostSubject: Re: Swirly pipes revisited   Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:42 am

So I've been reading the politics.ie thread and the link provided but I just can't see it.
I can't see how the swirl would have a major effect on the ease with which the water passes through the pipe.
I'll give it some more thought.
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PostSubject: Re: Swirly pipes revisited   Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:23 am

Is it something to do with harmonics or wavelengths as opposed to interference ? And reduction of drag ... ?

If you imagine water flowing around obstacles in a river then it could be either very turbulent or smooth depending on some things. If the water is allowed to interfere with itself then it might end up slowing itself down as it flowed but if somehow it could be harmonised around those obstacles it might flow more constructively.

The only obstacle in a pipe is the side of the pipe wall or the water itself though.
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PostSubject: Re: Swirly pipes revisited   Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:25 am

I'm getting ...eh...déja vu.

Did we not do swirly pipes already ?

Is this like a swirly pipe appeal to the Supreme Court ?
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PostSubject: Re: Swirly pipes revisited   Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:52 pm

From http://www.imperialinnovations.co.uk/?q=/node/155

'HeliSwirl’s patented small amplitude helical tubing (SMAHT) technology
generates highly efficient in-line mixing of fluids, which for a large
range of potential applications, offers to increase process yield and
reduce costs. Applications currently under development include the use
of the technology in ethylene pyrolysis tubing and for flow
conditioning in oil and gas production risers.'

Its use will be for the increase in the mixing of fluids. The costs are reduced in the current fashion.
IOn a current process, 2 fluids are pumped into a tank and agitated with an impeller. If you want small batches you need more pumping and it is generally cheaper to go for bigger batches.
Heliswirl transferes some of the mixing to the inlet pipes. By using a bigger pump and swirly pipe, the mixing can be reduced.

In short mixing. It will not compete against straignt pipes for single component applications.
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PostSubject: Re: Swirly pipes revisited   Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:42 pm

Is it any good for mixing cocktails or chocolate cake riven?
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PostSubject: Re: Swirly pipes revisited   Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:04 pm

Depends on the cocktail. I like my descrete layers sometimes.
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