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 MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein

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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:33 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Oh no - are you going to suggest Jilly Cooper again cactus?

I think Naomi Klein would do just as well, Auditor #9 - a real page turner.
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:13 pm

Zhou_Enlai wrote:
The core problem is how, in the context of technologial and economic development and environmental emergencies, to achieve peace, political stability, economic stability, human rights and functioning sociological structures which will allow us to enhance the dignity of the human being (including mental and spiritual joy and well being, human self respect and human regard for the value of life).

Amen to that! But if you read Klein, you'll be wondering how soon you can join a gated community and be on the safe side when catastrophe hits!
Actually, it is a bit of an airport read, but that's okay, especially for all "Collapse" survivors. Razz
If anyone saw the piece about school-building and reconstruction in Afghanistan on BBC2 Newsnight last night, you could have lifted it straight from Klein's book.
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:22 pm

So we're going for it then? I'm happy about that - I was looking forward to Douthwaite and Stiglitz like I was to meeting my boss next week.

Can we write an MN Mission Statement around Zhou Enlai's quote above?
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:15 am

Actually the bit I had read of Stiglitz was encouraging. But now that we're reading Klein - do we need to read No Logo before we read Shock Doctrine..
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:19 am

Kate P wrote:
Actually the bit I had read of Stiglitz was encouraging. But now that we're reading Klein - do we need to read No Logo before we read Shock Doctrine..

No Logo is pretty chunky reading, like Collapse in a way. You'd need to devote a lot of time and energy to it. It's not an easy read.
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:02 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
So we're going for it then? I'm happy about that - I was looking forward to Douthwaite and Stiglitz like I was to meeting my boss next week.

Can we write an MN Mission Statement around Zhou Enlai's quote above?

The eradication of "mission statements" may well be part of the solution! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:28 pm

Hold on, what? Are we abandoning Stiglitz et al? The idea that we abandon Stiglitz because he references his earlier book is a little silly, I think Klein references her earlier book too. Just throwing this in there, but Patten never references his earlier books.
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:28 pm

Very Happy

Mission Statements should not be allowed if they are aspirational. They are only informative if they are descriptive.
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:36 pm

905 wrote:
Hold on, what? Are we abandoning Stiglitz et al? The idea that we abandon Stiglitz because he references his earlier book is a little silly, I think Klein references her earlier book too. Just throwing this in there, but Patten never references his earlier books.

Hi 905. Could we start two threads or do you think that is a recipe for disaster. I am keen to look at Stiglitz and Douthwaite, but a lot of people either have read or want to read Klein - I think maybe two weeks discussion of Klein would be enough and that would give people a chance to get the other two books and start getting into them. I am ordering Patten on your recommendation as something on the side.
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:44 pm

I think a bit of backbone should do the trick, we should stick with Stiglitz in my opinion. We can always do Klein next. In some ways a basic grounding in general global economics (which Stiglitz will provide to a degree) woukd be good background to Kein's focus on Friedmanite economics.

The books compliment each other quite well and those with time on thier hands could read them together. If it weren't for their length I would have recomended that they be paired.

Patten would distract from the focus on economics, it's not really his strong suit. Disregard my blatent canvassing (nice to see it works though!).
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:18 pm

I went out today and bought Globlization and Its Discontents because there seems to be a leaning towards reading his first book. The book shop didn't have Making Globalization Work at all.

Also bought
Shock Doctrine and Chris Patten's book plus a book on genetics from which I will shower you all with various quotes and readings over the coming years.
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:01 pm

I'm happy to stick with Stiglitz too - because I have it and it's readable while I'm busy. But I will try to have a look at Globalization and its Discontents too. Douthwaite will have to... wait.
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:34 pm

Right - I'm off to buy Stiglitz and then I'll have the lot.
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:50 pm

So that's it - we're starting with Discontents by Stiglitz and Shock Doctrine? I'd prefer to read the first Stiglitz one before I start into the second when it get it anyway, although Zhou has already read them. Why don't we have a look at the Stiglitz and Klein books later or this weekend and try to come up with a plan for reading them... The last book club may have benefitted I think from a deadline per chapter what do you think? Some chapters were 20 pages only so wasn't a push to get two or three read in a week if that's what you would decide beforehand.

You were more or less doing that at the beginning cactus then 905 and Ard Taoiseach read the whole book in one week pale albino
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:10 pm

I suggest that people post when it suits them, as they read, and then we get together to chat about "issues arising" and our own thoughts and opinions about the books as we go. I think about 6 weeks is long enough to discuss a book, so if we tried to divide the reading up into 6 sections that would do it. There is no ideal way - I'm usually a zippy and skimmy reader and get through books in a few days, but not at 'study' level, which is much slower. I am enjoying ruminating and digesting the book club books a bit more slowly.Fast readers can just chip in whenever they like, I suppose.
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:30 pm

cactus flower wrote:
I suggest that people post when it suits them, as they read, and then we get together to chat about "issues arising" and our own thoughts and opinions about the books as we go. I think about 6 weeks is long enough to discuss a book, so if we tried to divide the reading up into 6 sections that would do it. There is no ideal way - I'm usually a zippy and skimmy reader and get through books in a few days, but not at 'study' level, which is much slower. I am enjoying ruminating and digesting the book club books a bit more slowly.Fast readers can just chip in whenever they like, I suppose.

I think we should have a "spur of the moment" rule. Say you were reading through Stiglitz and Douthwaite at 11 o'clock on a Tuesday evening and something very interesting came up and you wanted to post about it. Under this rule, you would then log on the the Machine Nation at ten past and post your comment and other Machine Nationals could then come along and discuss off of that position.

It keeps things light, flexible and accessible.

I do, however, think we should keep up the big Sunday meet since it means that we can be assured of a crowd to chat with about the book.

Combining the "spur of the moment" rule with the Sunday meets and we'll have a fast-flowing fantastic discussion about our new book!
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:34 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:


You were more or less doing that at the beginning cactus then 905 and Ard Taoiseach read the whole book in one week pale albino

And I can do Rubicon in a weekend, I like reading!
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:59 pm

I like the spur of the moment and 6 weeks is plenty and I'd say a month should be enough sometimes though on the spur of the moment which Ard Taoiseach you must have read out of my mind I would fear that the zippy readers like yourself would post about the whole thing in three days Shocked and then the rest of us would see the revelations as we'd go along and the book would be spoilered

so, if we have a spur of the moment can we limit it? you can only have spur of the moments during the chapter under present discussion and you can try to control yourself as to dishing it out during that week, keeping the conclusions, if you can, for towards the end. You coming along and posting like that would actually get me off my arse to read it too.
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:05 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:

so, if we have a spur of the moment can we limit it? you can only have spur of the moments during the chapter under present discussion and you can try to control yourself as to dishing it out during that week, keeping the conclusions, if you can, for towards the end. You coming along and posting like that would actually get me off my arse to read it too.

That's cool with me. I think we can have a credit of, say, 5 spurs of the moment a week and we should apply full posting rigour to them to ensure that they do not detract from other readers' enjoyment. I shall also limit myself to the time-frame of the chapter we are meant to be discussing.

Unless we want to go Lisbon on the whole thing and have a Byzantine co-decision procedure to sort this out in which nobody has a clue what they're doing!
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:57 pm

Ah feck. Just name the chapter at the beginning of the post and mention that it's a spoiler. Then the poster doesn't have to read.

We're all grown ups.

Aren't we?
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:01 am

Kate P wrote:
We're all grown ups.

Aren't we?
I suppose ..



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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:53 pm

I just read the first chapter of Joseph Stiglitz book 'Globalisation and its Discontents' and it's fairly mighty in fairness. I couldn't get the EU book The Great Deception but I got myself a copy of Rubicon Wink
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:56 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
I just read the first chapter of Joseph Stiglitz book 'Globalisation and its Discontents' and it's fairly mighty in fairness. I couldn't get the EU book The Great Deception but I got myself a copy of Rubicon Wink

Brilliant! I've been reading it and I can chat lyrical to you about the declining days of the Roman Republic, from Sulla to Augustus Caesar. Great stuff. You made a great choice there. I shall meet you in the Forum(and not the cyberkind). Ave Auditorius Maximus Septimimus!
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:10 am

You should fly through Rubicon as well. You can take at least a chapter a night. When I was reading Collapse it was a labour to go a dozen pages. That's why I read during the day when my mind was able for the torpid prose.
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PostSubject: Re: MN Summer Book Club Choice- Stiglitz and Klein   Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:18 am

That's a good description of Collapse - hope you're right about Rubicon for me. How's the Great Deception going ? Have you got very far in it ?
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