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 Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium

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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:30 pm

According to the Guardian today
Quote :
Each Briton uses 4,645 litres a day when hidden factors are included
Mother of God ... Shocked

But this is the guesstimate made in a new report published today concerning the water consumption of the British and below are some more stats and figures from the Guardian article

Quote :
The scale of British water consumption and its impact around the world is revealed in a new report today, which warns of the hidden levels needed to produce food and clothing.

The UK has become the sixth largest net importer of water in the world, the environment group WWF will tell a meeting of international experts in Stockholm, with every consumer indirectly responsible for the use of thousands of litres a day. Only 38% of the UK's total water use comes from its own resources; the rest depends on the water systems of other countries, some of which are already facing serious shortages.

The study makes the first attempt to measure the UK's total "water footprint" and highlights the extent to which our imports come from countries which are running out of fresh water. It calculates that:

· Average household water use for washing and drinking in the UK is about 150 litres a person daily, but we consume about 30 times as much in "virtual water", used in the production of imported food and textiles;

· Taking virtual water into account, each of us soaks up 4,645 litres a day;

· Only Brazil, Mexico, Japan, China and Italy come higher in the league of net importers of virtual agricultural water. People in poorer countries typically subsist on 1,000 litres of virtual water a day;

· Different diets have different water footprints. A meat and dairy-based diet consumes about 5,000 litres of virtual water a day while a vegetarian diet uses about 2,000 litres.

Guardian

Now, it isn't unthinkable that an international water tax like a carbon tax might be heaped on people in years to come - could be within a decade given the rate of growth of people and the demand on finite resources. Could be that the UK could become one of our biggest customers for our rain ...
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:32 pm

Do we import water at all? I hadn't realised there was an international system of water trading. Wonder what the BNP thinks of the fact they may well be drinking tap water brewed in Bavaria.
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:03 pm

What's the story with our sewage and water systems? Why the boil notices? Are our pipes getting damaged by landslides caused by this flooding? E.Coli in Limerick and Gort and bacteria from sewage found in Monaghan What a Face

Boil water notices for three counties
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:27 pm

A professor of climate change in Maynooth is reported by the Irish Times this morning as predicting water charges because of future drought. Though he is looking out he same window as we are he is convinced that the rain will abate as future effects of climate change kick off...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2008/0825/1219616651432.html

As I said last week, water will be charged in a similar way as carbon dioxide soon enough so we'll potentially have riches falling from the sky, although at reduced volume, perhaps.
Quote :
"Carbon taxes are part of the programme for government. The sooner we grasp the nettle and comply, the better because we need to send out a message that energy use has a cost for the environment.

"Clean water will become a dwindling resource with more demand. In that situation, it will have a pricing component similar to that of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere."

The shortage of supply is already evident in Dublin, where supply and demand are finely balanced. The city will require an additional 350 million litres a day by 2015 and does not have the capacity to meet it.

Dublin City Council has commissioned consultants to examine the options for alternative supply sources. The report is expected to be completed in early 2009.
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:51 pm

Yeh, TapTips.ie must have been reading off the same page as this guy... I can't help howling laughing at the "watering your lawn wastes 500 liters of H2O" ads I can see from the Dart. Please show me the person with a garden that NEEDS watering this summer.... few and far between, I'll bet. Not the best timing for that ad campaign, should have run it 2-3 summers ago!

As for Dublin, the rate of build has far exceeded the supply sources in terms of reservoirs, although I'd imagine that further building is grinding to a halt right now. Mending the leaky pipes and building a few more reservoirs might do the trick....

More recent global warming models predict that BOTH droughts and floods will increase, but Ireland is expected to broadly get wetter, especially in the west. Methinks they'll probably have to build that link from the lower Shannon to Dublin to improve the water supply. Or could we indulge in a spot of cross border co-operation and reduce the water level in Lough Neagh for the Nordies? With their weather, I doubt they'll get droughts too often, so maybe us lowering their water levels would do them a favour!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:10 pm

expat girl wrote:
Yeh, TapTips.ie must have been reading off the same page as this guy... I can't help howling laughing at the "watering your lawn wastes 500 liters of H2O" ads I can see from the Dart. Please show me the person with a garden that NEEDS watering this summer.... few and far between, I'll bet. Not the best timing for that ad campaign, should have run it 2-3 summers ago!

As for Dublin, the rate of build has far exceeded the supply sources in terms of reservoirs, although I'd imagine that further building is grinding to a halt right now. Mending the leaky pipes and building a few more reservoirs might do the trick....

More recent global warming models predict that BOTH droughts and floods will increase, but Ireland is expected to broadly get wetter, especially in the west. Methinks they'll probably have to build that link from the lower Shannon to Dublin to improve the water supply. Or could we indulge in a spot of cross border co-operation and reduce the water level in Lough Neagh for the Nordies? With their weather, I doubt they'll get droughts too often, so maybe us lowering their water levels would do them a favour!!!

In the meantime, those who can should buy a couple of water butts for the garden. Local authorities are carrying out big anti-leakage programmes of work. Apartment blocks could be doing it too.

I think I remember reading that power showers are the worst offenders for domestic use.

There was a British Home Secretary once who told everyone to share their baths drunken drunken
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:15 pm

Some other fella reckoned that water charges will be introduced. Now, I'm totally cynical about water charges unless their use is transparent and there is a concerted project to renew the system, even if it were to be over a period of ten or fifteen years - in conjunction with Transport21 maybe.

Otherwise it mightn't be a bad thing to introduce a charge for excess use but again the revenue would need to be ploughed back into the system. I'm imagining a charge kicking in at a certain point would get people looking a lot differently at the rain, their plumbing, the local plumber, plumbing books, grey water ..
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:04 pm



William Reville in the Irish Times yesterday was going on about the water too and cites a feature article in Scientific American this month on the whole thing - Facing the Freshwater Crisis, Scientific American.

He makes some very interesting points towards the end of the article/feature in the Times, ending with the information that there is a waterfootprint as there is a carbon footprint... I'd really love to know how accurate those figures for 'virtual water' are and I'd like to know how they are arrived at ...

Quote :
Another high priority would be to conserve farm irrigation water. A 10 per cent saving here would save more than used by all other consumers - plugging leaks, using drip-irrigation methods and using crops that can withstand low moisture.

"Virtual water" is the amount of water used to produce a product. Food is very high in virtual water - it takes 1,000 litres of water to make 1kg of wheat. Growing food is an enormous pressure on water in an arid country and, so, importing this food means the inhabitants of the arid region can conserve scarce water. This can also be important in international relations. For example, Rogers reports that importation of virtual water by Jordan reduces the chances of water-based conflicts with neighbouring Israel.

Low water sanitation also conserves water. I was in Munich recently and noticed that the toilet in my hotel had two flush buttons - one for low volume flush to deal with a piddle and the other for higher volume flush to deal with more substantial matters.

Indeed you can go much further with toilets. Systems are under development that separate the urine from excrement. The urine is collected in a tank and used as liquid farm fertiliser. The excrement collects in a bin where it is broken down by microbes into a non-toxic nutrient-rich substance that can be used as crop fertiliser.

As much as 97 per cent of the world's water is salty, so, if we had a cheap easy way of removing the salt we would have few remaining problems with scarce fresh water supplies. Desalination technology has been expensive but recent developments have substantially reduced costs for the most energy-efficient technology - membrane reverse-osmosis systems. This will allow many coastal cities to access new and secure sources of fresh water. Rogers is optimistic that we can avoid a global water crisis if we quickly adopt existing ways to conserve and enhance water supply.

Finally, you have all heard of the carbon footprint. Well, you also have a water footprint - the volume of freshwater you use directly and in the provision of the goods and services you consume. You can look up your water footprint at www.waterfootprint.org.

If we got our shit together in this country we'd be rich, I swear.

Water, water everywhere etc. - Irish Times
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:01 pm

Tonight on RTE 9:35 - Futureshock: The Last Drop
http://www.rte.ie/tv/futureshock/



Quote :
In this instalment of the Future Shock series, Philip Boucher-Hayes investigates how Ireland is running out of water.

After the long, wet summer of 2008, few would believe it, but Ireland is running out of water.

Our next big resource crisis is looming on the horizon and it's not oil. A growing shortage of drinking water threatens not only our health and the environment, but the future of our economy too. Future Shock: The Last Drop reveals how, as a nation, we are wasting what we have and polluting what is left. Simply put, soon there won't be enough water in the east of the country to meet ever-growing demand - and in the west, the quality of our drinking water simply can't be guaranteed.

Drawing on two years of research into water quality in Ireland, RTÉ Radio Investigative Unit reporter Philip Boucher-Hayes visits spots, including Galway and Ennis that have experienced problems with their water quality and availability, and those which are likely to in the near future. And he presents some genuinely shocking discoveries in this challenging documentary.

Is this RTE trying to frighten us into paying charges?
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:40 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:51 am

excellent programme - one of the 3 times this year so far I've felt my licence fee has been worth it paying.

Hope it hit home - this was not some far off , if the world economy breaks this way or that - this is coming down the road right now.

One of the sad things that hit was in regard to the segment on the pollution and contamination of lakes and waterways - it was so fucking typically Irish and sums us up perfectly as a nation at the moment - its somebodys elses fault - not our problem boss - if you cant see it then it isnt a problem

When trying to see a solution to all this - one would despair and starting looking at prospectuses for emigrating to Canada.

As I said in the other place already today - when the hell are we going to grow up and take collective responsibility for our actions ? When - probably in typical irish style when we are waking the corpse.
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:55 am

Edo wrote:
excellent programme - one of the 3 times this year so far I've felt my licence fee has been worth it paying.

Hope it hit home - this was not some far off , if the world economy breaks this way or that - this is coming down the road right now.

One of the sad things that hit was in regard to the segment on the pollution and contamination of lakes and waterways - it was so fucking typically Irish and sums us up perfectly as a nation at the moment - its somebodys elses fault - not our problem boss - if you cant see it then it isnt a problem

When trying to see a solution to all this - one would despair and starting looking at prospectuses for emigrating to Canada.

As I said in the other place already today - when the hell are we going to grow up and take collective responsibility for our actions ? When - probably in typical irish style when we are waking the corpse.

Missed it because still working here, with one ear on the Ron Paul shadow convention Shocked . I hope I can pick up a repeat or summat.
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:02 am

Edo wrote:
excellent programme - one of the 3 times this year so far I've felt my licence fee has been worth it paying.

Hope it hit home - this was not some far off , if the world economy breaks this way or that - this is coming down the road right now.

One of the sad things that hit was in regard to the segment on the pollution and contamination of lakes and waterways - it was so fucking typically Irish and sums us up perfectly as a nation at the moment - its somebodys elses fault - not our problem boss - if you cant see it then it isnt a problem

When trying to see a solution to all this - one would despair and starting looking at prospectuses for emigrating to Canada.

As I said in the other place already today - when the hell are we going to grow up and take collective responsibility for our actions ? When - probably in typical irish style when we are waking the corpse.
That was breathtakingly depressing. We're on the brink of a war if you believe that fella in the midlands, J.P.Walsh. Still, I think that Dublin will win and get their pipe up to lough Rí. They have plans to take it from Lough Derg too ... It might not be so bad if they take the overflow in winter - that's 350 million litres per day by the way, half the amount lost through leakages in the entire country daily ... Dublin would do well to build this new bit properly and put the rest of the country to shame - of all the local authorities the ones in Dublin are working hardest to reduce their losses - it's down towards 30% in places, Kilkenny is 60% loss.

It's so shameful about septic tanks, farm run off, Ennis .. my god. As you say, no crowd are accepting responsibility though farming and water treatment were found there to be equally responsible.

No wonder I drink bottled water.
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:17 am

Over on p.ie they are arguing that septic tanks should be mapped, regulated annually (?) NCT-style and that slurry could also be spread out on the land in a better way through drying it or something.

http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?f=160&t=40572
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:32 am

Edo wrote:
excellent programme - one of the 3 times this year so far I've felt my licence fee has been worth it paying.

Hope it hit home - this was not some far off , if the world economy breaks this way or that - this is coming down the road right now.

One of the sad things that hit was in regard to the segment on the pollution and contamination of lakes and waterways - it was so fucking typically Irish and sums us up perfectly as a nation at the moment - its somebodys elses fault - not our problem boss - if you cant see it then it isnt a problem

When trying to see a solution to all this - one would despair and starting looking at prospectuses for emigrating to Canada.

As I said in the other place already today - when the hell are we going to grow up and take collective responsibility for our actions ? When - probably in typical irish style when we are waking the corpse.

I didn't see it either but considering the daft plans that the government allow in relation to water - like the prospective disposal of Hydrogen Cyanide less than a mile from Blessington lakes - it's not a surprise. We've not much more than a handful of blueflag beaches and local authority sewage treatment is an utter disgrace in many cases.
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:46 am

Hermes wrote:
The vast majority of water wasted in this country is down to a complete and utter lack of infrastructure, planning and indeed, care.

This morning on ClareFM a FF councillor brought us back in time to the days of Labour and Fine Gael in government when they upped VAT instead of introducing water charges to pay for the infrastructure. So it seems he is arguing that the funds weren't allocated from central government all along but who finances it now? He thinks there should be a solution that will be fair on business rate payers and domestic customers. He also feels that the EU directive is stealthily introducing a water charge.

If there is a charge introduced then it will have to have application with effect - all along there was supposed to be a fund out there but was never applied to local water systems according to the FF account above. I wonder is it too late to apply standards now as they have been neglected. I suspect that local authorities around the place will end up digging up old pipes and relaying them over the next while.

They can't afford to walk into a plumbing shop at the moment though.
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:50 am

Quote :
Clare County Council admitted yestrerday it remained in non-compliance with an Enviornmental Protection Agency directive that all water in the Ennis public water supply be treated for crytospridium. Ennis town engineer Tom Tiernan said to retain a water supplyu the council had no choice bu the for the water to partially bypass treatment for cryptosporidium

Describing the risk for cryptosporidium as "relatively low", he said that Ennis water was as good as most other supplies
pale
(Irish Times today)
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:51 pm

Got a web-site off the net to calculate approx volume of rainwater that falls on the roof here at work. On the day that the record of 76mm came down in Shannon, the roof took approx. 336,000 litres of water.
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:22 pm

clareman51 wrote:
Got a web-site off the net to calculate approx volume of rainwater that falls on the roof here at work. On the day that the record of 76mm came down in Shannon, the roof took approx. 336,000 litres of water.
I think this is a viable potential solution to the mess that we're experiencing here in Clare and particularly for businesses who are paying charges. Can't it be a matter of re-routing that roof water into 'grey water' for use in toilets and showers and which could be also used in industrial processes. Could it be used as drinking water too?

Is it an option you are going to look at installing? There must be a lot of unemployed plumbers around the county/country at the moment.
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:34 pm

I'm looking at several different ideas, including sinking a well. The water from either source would normally have to be filtered and treated with UV to kill all contaminants. Early days yet.
But even if I made the place independent, I still think the CCC will charge something for water. Why would they do that? Because they can. If the council decided to employ another 50 people, we would not have any say, but as a business, would expect the rates to increase.
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:15 pm

clareman51 wrote:
I'm looking at several different ideas, including sinking a well. The water from either source would normally have to be filtered and treated with UV to kill all contaminants. Early days yet.
But even if I made the place independent, I still think the CCC will charge something for water. Why would they do that? Because they can. If the council decided to employ another 50 people, we would not have any say, but as a business, would expect the rates to increase.

Don't you think that's utterly utterly wrong?! There is no transparency or accountability here. Taxes are gathered for A and used for X, Y, Z which is wrong. Taxes were already gathered through VAT since the FG Labour government for water system upgrades all along - don't you think it should be done fairly now if it's collected? There should be deterrent charges for overuse and wastage and if any money leaves our pockets for water charges then I'd like to see what's done with the money. I'll personally go to CCC and ask for a breakdown of the spending down to every washer bought. We need to demand these things because there is no accountablity now. John O'Donoghue's office toilet got refurbished for 56k by the OPW according to the tribune the other week - that could buy a lot of water for people who are afraid to give tap water to their children.

Charging you for water you collect from your roof like that is tantamount to criminality - buy a gun mate.
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:41 pm

What I would like is to have total independence from energy and water charges. There will be a breakthrough some day and I intend to take full advantage.
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:11 pm

clareman51 wrote:
What I would like is to have total independence from energy and water charges. There will be a breakthrough some day and I intend to take full advantage.

I guess you would have to completely disconnected from the public systems. However you would still be generating a cost on the local authority as presumably you rely on many other people and facilities in the area who need water supplies and who may not be in the position to become independent. At the end of the day unless we want to live up the mountains in a totally independent small holding and never use a school or a hospital we need a clean and reliable public supply.

The Council are delivering water that is not potable and charging for it. Is there not the potential for the Chamber of Commerce or other group to get a rebate for the costs of buying in potable water? They would soon decide they could afford to rectify their supplies.

Once it is in the water cryptospiridion is very hard and costly to get rid of. There is a shockingly slack attitude to protection of water sources.


Last edited by cactus flower on Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:36 pm

cactus flower wrote:
Once it is in the water cryptospiridion is very hard and costly to get rid of. There is a shockingly slack attitude to protection of water sources.
Indeed; this is the biggest of many worries about our water. If the Greens can change the Irish mentality about water, they will have achieved something.

Auditor #9 wrote:
Charging you for water you collect from your roof like that is tantamount to criminality - buy a gun mate.
Agreed (about the water, not the gun)! But if you get your water from the ground -- from a well, spring, or whatever -- isn't there a valid argument for the community imposing some charge on you? The water comes more or less from the water table or aquifer, which belongs to everybody, or it would flow untainted to other people if you didn't use it...

Some years ago I thought that rainwater collection systems would be the business to get into in Ireland. I still think so, but I'm not in Ireland anymore (since I learned the truth about fluoridation).
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PostSubject: Re: Water wastage pollution / quality e-coli cryptosporidium   Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:49 am

clareman51 wrote:
What I would like is to have total independence from energy and water charges. There will be a breakthrough some day and I intend to take full advantage.
We need a Clare Anarchist party - Anarchists have corporate cred you know, they're not all gun-mad aggressors like me Wink

cactus flower wrote:
I guess you would have to completely disconnected from the public systems. However you would still be generating a cost on the local authority as presumably you rely on many other people and facilities in the area who need water supplies and who may not be in the position to become independent. At the end of the day unless we want to live up the mountains in a totally independent small holding and never use a school or a hospital we need a clean and reliable public supply.
Very interesting points - the multiplication in the community and the possible inability of people to produce their own water... Have you been to Shannon lately? Roofs and roofs and roofs going to waste waste waste and that man got 300,000 litres from one roof over a short period... What he needs is cheap technology to catch that water, clean it, keep it and then with the caught water cater for the needs of those who are associated with his business. He can even take his tech to the school where his children are at risk from the crypto because of certain ineptitude and he can offer them this tech for a cheap price and they may avoid charges as well as ingestion of potential death-dealing crypto etc. The man could start a second business and get richer.

cactus flower wrote:
The Council are delivering water that is not potable and charging for it. Is there not the potential for the Chamber of Commerce or other group to get a rebate for the costs of buying in potable water? They would soon decide they could afford to rectify their supplies.
They are knowlingly pumping shit into drinking water, shouldn't they be liable for negligence?
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