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 French designs on changing corporate tax rate after Lisbon

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PostSubject: French designs on changing corporate tax rate after Lisbon   Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:18 pm

I borrowed this from p.ie where a mighty shitstorm will be unleashed over this tonight. Libertas have been declaring that this will happen since they arrived and now it seems they are justified.

http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=36490

Fears as French to push for tax-rate harmony (link)

Quote :
Harmonisation of business taxes will be the number one priority of the French Presidency of the European Commission, which begins next month, officials from the French Department of Finance told business leaders.

A meeting of Medef, the largest French business lobby group, was told that Nicolas Sarkozy's government plans to bring forward concrete measures aimed at harmonising the European corporate tax base and, by extension, all tax rates, as early as September.

Who the f* is Sar-ko-Zee all of a sudden?
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PostSubject: Re: French designs on changing corporate tax rate after Lisbon   Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:26 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
I borrowed this from p.ie where a mighty shitstorm will be unleashed over this tonight. Libertas have been declaring that this will happen since they arrived and now it seems they are justified.

http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=36490

Fears as French to push for tax-rate harmony (link)

Quote :
Harmonisation of business taxes will be the number one priority of the French Presidency of the European Commission, which begins next month, officials from the French Department of Finance told business leaders.

A meeting of Medef, the largest French business lobby group, was told that Nicolas Sarkozy's government plans to bring forward concrete measures aimed at harmonising the European corporate tax base and, by extension, all tax rates, as early as September.

Who the f* is Sar-ko-Zee all of a sudden?

He is the master of outrageous quotes that later get denied or contradicted by members of his own government, apparently.

Still, tax harmonisation is always on the French agenda. Has been for 30 years now.
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PostSubject: Re: French designs on changing corporate tax rate after Lisbon   Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:45 pm

So he'll just shout and shout and nobody will listen? I'm sure the ramifications of this have been dealt with before but what will he try to do now as President of the Parliament and what will be different about his attempts later after Lisbonne, if Lisbon succeeds? i.e. is there a chance at all that his shouting will have more of an affect after Lisbon?

He's not liked too much, Sarkozy, is he? Someone doesn't like him here anyway.
http://anti-sarkomania.over-blog.com/archive-06-6-2008.html
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PostSubject: Re: French designs on changing corporate tax rate after Lisbon   Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:51 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
So he'll just shout and shout and nobody will listen? I'm sure the ramifications of this have been dealt with before but what will he try to do now as President of the Parliament and what will be different about his attempts later after Lisbonne, if Lisbon succeeds? i.e. is there a chance at all that his shouting will have more of an affect after Lisbon?

He's not liked too much, Sarkozy, is he? Someone doesn't like him here anyway.
http://anti-sarkomania.over-blog.com/archive-06-6-2008.html

'Tax harmonisation' was part of the French 2000 EU Presidency as well...and all the same scares came out for the Nice treaty too...
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PostSubject: Re: French designs on changing corporate tax rate after Lisbon   Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:18 pm

Why do they raise the issue if nothing can come of it?

What do they do exactly anyway? Get a few of their Commissioners to raise it in the Commission; make sure a few of their Ministers in the Council of Ministers vote for it when it goes to that place; make sure a load of their MEPs vote for it when it goes to the Parliament. Meanwhile lobby the Germans who've always wanted it anyway too.

Or does anything like that happen at all? Or does the above only happen with 'competences' and tax will never be a competence or will it but there is a protocol defending our say over our own tax system?
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PostSubject: Re: French designs on changing corporate tax rate after Lisbon   Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:42 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Why do they raise the issue if nothing can come of it?

What do they do exactly anyway? Get a few of their Commissioners to raise it in the Commission; make sure a few of their Ministers in the Council of Ministers vote for it when it goes to that place; make sure a load of their MEPs vote for it when it goes to the Parliament. Meanwhile lobby the Germans who've always wanted it anyway too.

Partly they do it because it plays well to their home gallery. It's relatively easy for a French PM to paint low-tax nations as 'spongers', particularly where, like Ireland, they've also been net beneficiaries all along. It also plays well with some other EU members, for much the same reasons.

Plus, they genuinely want to do it, and if they don't raise it, it won't happen. They're quite willing to play the bully, too - the various 'interventions' by the French in this referendum suggests that either they don't want Lisbon passed, or that they are trying to extract concessions from our government in order to shut up.

Auditor #9 wrote:
Or does anything like that happen at all? Or does the above only happen with 'competences' and tax will never be a competence or will it but there is a protocol defending our say over our own tax system?

Direct tax - the ablity to raise revenue by directly taxing individuals and businesses - is the cornerstone of state power. It is not an EU competence, so the other EU countries can't do anything about our tax rates unless we (and everyone else) agree that tax rates could be set throught the EU. As far as I can see, that would involve another referendum.
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PostSubject: Re: French designs on changing corporate tax rate after Lisbon   Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:49 pm

Hi, it's been reproached that I write too long posts, so I'll begin with my serious answer and add something below, because I believe you deserve some entertainment during this exhausting national debate.

I agree with Ibis, who is always credible in his answers. M. Sarkozy cannot impose a "harmonization" of corporate taxes. More generally, the role of temporary "president of the EU" is that of a chairman, not a leader. Other governments can always oppose his proposals.

I would be more concerned with the possibility for Ireland to compete with Eastern countries who offer no corporate tax at all.

Now for some entertainment.

-----------------------------

M. Sarkozy is what we call here a "Tartarin de Tarascon", a character from literature who is a small village hunter, who has a psychological problem with his virility, boasting everyday that he will accomplish the boldest feats, and never achieving any. For months now he has been announcing reforms that are contradicted the week after by other governments, or the Brussels commission, or even his own ministers.

His government's ministers themselves contradict each others every other day. In short, it is an unprecented mess.

M. Sarkozy is also known for a problem with his women.

Before his election he was married with Cecilia, who suddenly ran away in 2006 to New York with a very rich businessman. He somehow convinced Cecilia to come back during the campaign, and a put show of reconciled love that was a success in tabloids. However Cecilia ran away again as soon as the election was over, and this is why many French feel they have been cheated on a grand scale.

M. Sarkozy a few weeks after married Carla, a former top model and singer, very rich herself. Carla had a past of easy friendship with many men, including opposition leaders. She even had a child with Raphael Enthoven, a philosopher, son of Jean-Paul Enthoven, a theatre director, the man she was supposed to be with at the time.

Some people (like me), would not have minded her private life if she had remained in the show business, but find it a bit awkward for a first lady. Others put it more bluntly by saying she's got a fire somewhere, which is not her head.

At least, we all laughed to tears when we saw her visiting the Queen of Britain, pathetically dressed as Jackie Kennedy, and trying to behave like a shy religious girls' school student. Oh my.

Now the conservative leaders themselves sigh with despair awaiting the end of his mandate. To give you an idea how much he is laughed at in the country, it was rumoured that after Cecilia left and before he married Carla, he sent a cell phone message to Cecilia that said "Si tu reviens j'annule tout", which means "If you come back I cancel everything". And a singer found it funny to make a song about it, which has become a popular comical tune now.

You will be able to hear it here, since your blog system doesn't seem to allow Dailymotion embedding:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4g8v0_si-tu-reviens-jannule-tout_politics


Last edited by arnaudherve on Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:26 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: French designs on changing corporate tax rate after Lisbon   Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:14 am

A funny post indeed Arnaudherve. Know what's scary though? It's the same everywhere.

What I find interesting about international politics is the friendships between folks internationally despite politics. Especially since the internet brought us all within typing distance. Good to have you on Machine Nation.

Don't worry about writing long posts, many of us appreciate the time you'd be willing to put in to explaining your viewpoints.

Salut!
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PostSubject: Re: French designs on changing corporate tax rate after Lisbon   Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:20 am

Hermes wrote:
A funny post indeed Arnaudherve. Know what's scary though? It's the same everywhere.

What I find interesting about international politics is the friendships between folks internationally despite politics. Especially since the internet brought us all within typing distance. Good to have you on Machine Nation.

Don't worry about writing long posts, many of us appreciate the time you'd be willing to put in to explaining your viewpoints.

Salut!

seconded - fair play to you Arnauldherve and write posts any length you wish here on MN - your command of the English language surpasses many native speakers!
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PostSubject: Re: French designs on changing corporate tax rate after Lisbon   Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:32 am

I am glad for your warm welcome.
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PostSubject: Re: French designs on changing corporate tax rate after Lisbon   Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:38 am

Arnaud can you tell us about any French forums where they might be discussing this right now? I'd like to collect the European versions of Politics.ie maybe we'll meet the French 'FuturePresident' there.
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PostSubject: Re: French designs on changing corporate tax rate after Lisbon   Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:38 am

arnaudherve wrote:
I am glad for your warm welcome.

It really is great having you here. We tend to be very much influenced by the fact that we're natives in forming our perspectives. It's a Godsend that we have someone from the outside looking in contributing to the debate and our understanding of the issue.

There is a poster called THR on Politics.ie who is from Finland and has never visited Ireland. He gives an external perspective there. I am confident you can do the same here.

Also, we've been mixing languages here, from English to Irish to German. You can help us add French to the list. C'est magnifique!
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