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 Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*

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PostSubject: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:15 am

ceart go leor mar sin, táim reidh mo drochGhaeilge a thabhairt daoibh más maith libh. cad ba mhaith libh a dhéanamh?

Right so, I'm set to give ye my (limited) knowledge of Gaeilge if ye want. What do ye want to do? I think the best thing to do is to see if people have specific questions or areas they'd like to focus on first or whatever. I don't know like, what'd be the best way to get our Gaeilge stronger? Some things might work for some people better than others, so we can try to cover the most we can by deciding first on how we're going about it... or not, whichever suits.... anyway, ideas?

Ye must all have a pure I love you first and foremost though, of course! Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:17 am

All I know is some place name Irish and a few little words BuachaillBeo - I was thinking of starting with some children's books. Is there a first reader / book you would suggest for an absolute beginner ?
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:22 am

cactus flower wrote:
All I know is some place name Irish and a few little words BuachaillBeo - I was thinking of starting with some children's books. Is there a first reader / book you would suggest for an absolute beginner ?

Buntús Cainte is your only man
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:23 am

How about this: give us some stock phrases which are common to every language but which you know in irish - very important verbs and very commonly used stuff. maybe.
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:26 am

What was the first thing you ever said in Irish?
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:39 am

Quote :
All I know is some place name Irish and a few little words BuachaillBeo
- I was thinking of starting with some children's books. Is there a
first reader / book you would suggest for an absolute beginner ?
Buntús Cainte as Seathrún Ceitinn said seems to get the recomendation often enough alright, haven't used it myself but people seem to like it. I can't remember the name of the books I used first, but there was a fox called RíRá and an elephant named Nelly, if that jogs anyones memory... I suppose the books aimed at absolute beginners for adults would be more suitable than childrens' ones, but like I suppose different ways might suit different people. I'll keep an eye out and tell you if anything promising crosses my path

Quote :
How about this: give us some stock phrases which are common to every
language but which you know in irish - very important verbs and very
commonly used stuff. maybe.
OK fair enough, we can do that. Do you have any phrases in particular? I'll try to think of some and write them up here

Quote :
What was the first thing you ever said in Irish?
'mam' probably, but I don't know if that'd count.... I don't think I knew there was a such things as different languages at the time Razz

Probably something along the lines of - 'Neil is ainm dom'
Tús maith like.... bounce
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:43 am

Some basics-

Dia duit - Hello
Conas atá tú? - How are you?
Táim go maith - I'm well
Táim go dona - I'm bad
Go raibh maith agat - Thank you
Tá fáilte romhat - You're welcome
Cad is ainm duit? - What's your name?
**** is ainm dom - My name is ****
Mise Seán - I am Seán

incidently, you can use 'táim' or 'tá mé', both mean 'I am'


Last edited by BuachaillBeo on Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:44 am

cactus flower wrote:
What was the first thing you ever said in Irish?

Oíche Mhaith....is dóigh liom
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:47 am

By common phrases I meant functional language or commonly used language...

905 and I had a few phrases appear one day on another thread -

I can , can I, may I, should, have to - those types of things and phrases around those kinds of things. Just expressions you'd use daily in any language.

How do you say 'get drunk' or 'become tired' - that kind of meaning? Is there a continuous tense in Irish - I can't remember. 'What are you doing?' How do you say that for example?
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:51 am

'What are you doing?' - Cad atá ar siúl agat?

Tagann tuirse orm ar ól buidéil dom - I can drink none
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:55 am

What's going on (here)? Cad atá ar siúl (anseo) ??

For those who haven't a clue at all, 'ar siúl' is also the verb 'to walk' if I remember right and the sound is 'shool' rhyming with 'school' - correct me away there lads. cactus do you have any irish at all?
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:56 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
By common phrases I meant functional language or commonly used language...

905 and I had a few phrases appear one day on another thread -

I can , can I, may I, should, have to - those types of things and phrases around those kinds of things. Just expressions you'd use daily in any language.

How do you say 'get drunk' or 'become tired' - that kind of meaning? Is there a continuous tense in Irish - I can't remember. 'What are you doing?' How do you say that for example?

God help me I'll give you an Ulster way of saying it but it's probably the best one to use at the start so you'll remember it -

I can - Tá mé ábalta (can also mean 'I am able (to...)' just think of it as a fella saying 'able to' in English with a northern accent... probably where it came from!)

You'll also see 'is féidir liom....' a lot, that's another way of saying 'I can'

Can I...? - An bhfuil mé ábalta...?

Tá mé is I am, and An bhfuil mé...? is Am I...?
So anywhere you get 'tá', it means the present tense 'to be' (ie 'is'), and to change it into a question change the 'tá' into 'an bhfuil'

tá mé anseo - I am here
an bhfuil mé anseo - Am I here?

etc

Hold on actually, I'll give ye a big list and just take what ye want from it....
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:58 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
What's going on (here)? Cad atá ar siúl (anseo) ??

For those who haven't a clue at all, 'ar siúl' is also the verb 'to walk' if I remember right and the sound is 'shool' rhyming with 'school' - correct me away there lads. cactus do you have any irish at all?

'ag siúl' is walking
'ar siúl' is, sort of like, 'going on', 'happening', as in an event would be 'ar siúl' and so on, like your example
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:00 am

Ah, thanks - ag siúl... so is 'ar siúl' sort of present continuous - how do you say 'I'm eating'? as opposed to 'I eat' - or is there a distinction in irish (there's none really in german or polish afaik)

I eat a big fry once a week.

Of course the more natural way is to use 'I have ...'

Where languages differ is important and interesting too.
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:03 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
What's going on (here)? Cad atá ar siúl (anseo) ??

For those who haven't a clue at all, 'ar siúl' is also the verb 'to walk' if I remember right and the sound is 'shool' rhyming with 'school' - correct me away there lads. cactus do you have any irish at all?

The verbal noun siúl is used in many phrases. Ar siúl kinna means 'ongoing' as well. Ar shiúl (with the seimhiú) means 'away'. Tá sé ar shiúl - Hes away.

Very often confused with 'súil' which means 'eye' and is used in as many phrases.

Tá súil agam - I hope (or in some cases 'I intend')
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:04 am

Right, obviously you don't need all of these, just take one or two that you think you'll remember or that you keep seeing and so on...

I can/am able
-=-=-=-=-=-
tá mé in ann
tá mé ábalta
is féidir liom

I can't/not able
-=-=-=-=-=-=
níl mé in ann
níl mé ábalta
ní féidir liom
ní thig liom
ní thiocfadh liom

I must/have to
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
tá orm
caithfidh mé (also means 'I will spend/wear/throw/smoke'... it's a good verb to learn!)
ní mór dom
is éigean dom


tá fúm.... - I intend to....

obviously the above might be a bit daunting but just learn one from each or whatever like, I don't use all of them myself.

How you fit them into sentences can be looked at as well, but is this what you were kind of thinking of? Will this help?
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:06 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
Ah, thanks - ag siúl... so is 'ar siúl' sort of present continuous - how do you say 'I'm eating'? as opposed to 'I eat' - or is there a distinction in irish (there's none really in german or polish afaik)

I eat a big fry once a week.

Of course the more natural way is to use 'I have ...'

Where languages differ is important and interesting too.

Tá mé ag ithe (at the minute)

Bím ag ithe (continuous)
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:06 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
Ah, thanks - ag siúl... so is 'ar siúl' sort of present continuous - how do you say 'I'm eating'? as opposed to 'I eat' - or is there a distinction in irish (there's none really in german or polish afaik)

Handily in this case, the Irish set up is similar to English -

I eat - Ithim

I'm eating - In Irish it's also made up of 'I am' and 'eating'
ag ithe - eating

so it'd be - tá mé ag ithe - I am eating
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:07 am

oh ya, bím ag ithe.. this is where the Hiberno-English 'do be' comes from.. it could be seen sort of as 'I do be eating' as in continuous like...
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:11 am

'Táim ag ithe...' = 'I am eating'? 'Bím ag ithe' = I do be eating (I eat?)

So if you say 'I only eat mackerel in summer' it would be different from saying 'I'm eating a fine big mackerel as I'm talking to you now on the mobile'

and that little bugger of a word 'only'
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:15 am

Its often been knocked but I find learning all the compound prepositions in a mantra type fashion along with the key irregular verbs are keys to the eventual mastery of the language. As I tell the páistí if you can rhyme them off your half way there. That and limiting the rote learning to that
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:21 am

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
Its often been knocked but I find learning all the compound prepositions in a mantra type fashion along with the key irregular verbs are keys to the eventual mastery of the language. As I tell the páistí if you can rhyme them off your half way there. That and limiting the rote learning to that
I'm only a fan of rote learning for maths. I was comfortable with learning songs which used key grammar when learning Spanish - 'it's my life' type expressions if you want to learn the possessives. 'of my true love's hair - her lips are like ..' and so on. Learn songs rather than rote learning of lists. The song way you get the meaning, other words and some grammar to tie them all together. And a tune forever in your head.

As someone said, language is music and music language.
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:25 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
'Táim ag ithe...' = 'I am eating'? 'Bím ag ithe' = I do be eating (I eat?)

So if you say 'I only eat mackerel in summer' it would be different from saying 'I'm eating a fine big mackerel as I'm talking to you now on the mobile'

and that little bugger of a word 'only'

Ní ithim ronnach/ronnaigh ach i rith an tsamhraidh

Tá mé ag ithe ronnaigh mhóir ghalanta agus mé ag labhairt leat anois ar an bhfón póca
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:29 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
'Táim ag ithe...' = 'I am eating'? 'Bím ag ithe' = I do be eating (I eat?)

Táim ag ithe - I'm eating (now, at this point in time, not continous)
Ithim - I eat (in the continual sense)
Bím ag ithe - kind of harder to explain.. it's continuous as well but like I can't think of how I can explain which one you'd choose between the two...

I think maybe you'd use the 'I do be' form if you're not talking as definate as you would with I eat as in..

Quote :
So if you say 'I only eat mackerel in summer' it would be different
from saying 'I'm eating a fine big mackerel as I'm talking to you now
on the mobile'

I eat mackerel every day - Ithim ronnach gach lá
It's continuous, every day and not just now.

I eat mackerel in summer - Bím ag ithe ronnach i gcaitheamh an tsamhraidh
It's continuous as well, but if you think about the hiberno-english 'i do be eating it in summer'... it's a continuous thing, but it's not a definate summer, it's more abstract, general... as in it's something you contunually do in summer... you're not talking about a specific summer.

I think that's how you'd diferentiate them anyway.... I could be wrong, I think I've been poxy enough to be able to get away with it long enough to usually know what way sounds better in my head. You might be able to use ithim for both, I'm just going by what sounds more appropriate to me (though I could be corrected any second now...)

I am eating mackerel now - Táim ag ithe ronnach anois
Any time in English the 'I am ....ing' is there then you do the same in Irish - 'Táim ag....' the 'ag' is like the 'ing' part in the English word. It's easy enough to see when you'd use this one then like.

Quote :
and that little bugger of a word 'only'
It's not actually too much hassle when you get to know it!

ach = but usually, but it has another use -
to do 'only' in Irish, you make the verb negative and put 'ach' after it, so -

I am = tá mé
I am not = níl mé
I am only = níl mé ach

tógann sé = he takes
ní thógann sé = he doesn't take
ní thógann sé ach = he only takes
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PostSubject: Re: Cuid ahhhh, *bíp*   Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:33 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
Its often been knocked but I find learning all the compound prepositions in a mantra type fashion along with the key irregular verbs are keys to the eventual mastery of the language. As I tell the páistí if you can rhyme them off your half way there. That and limiting the rote learning to that
I'm only a fan of rote learning for maths. I was comfortable with learning songs which used key grammar when learning Spanish - 'it's my life' type expressions if you want to learn the possessives. 'of my true love's hair - her lips are like ..' and so on. Learn songs rather than rote learning of lists. The song way you get the meaning, other words and some grammar to tie them all together. And a tune forever in your head.

As someone said, language is music and music language.

There is a natural rhyme with the prepositions and I did say limited to those and specific verbs. Altogether 150 words in a about twelve rhymes with a bit of humour gets every body participating. Can you remember any nursery rhymes. If so, why?
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