Machine Nation

Irish Politics Forum - Politics Technology Economics in Ireland - A Look Under The Nation's Bonnet


Devilish machinations come to naught --Milton
 
PortalPortal  HomeHome  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister  Log in  GalleryGallery  MACHINENATION.org  

Share | 
 

 The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Thu May 29, 2008 2:48 pm

The National Development Plan will not be implemented on time and in full due to reduced tax receipts.

Breakingnews.ie said today:
The Taoiseach Brian Cowen has said the Government will do its best to deliver as many projects as possible under the National Development Plan. Mr Cowen was speaking a day after he admitted that some projects in the plan may not be completed as they are predicated on economic growth of 4.5% over the coming years.

The admission marks a major u-turn as Mr Cowen had previously insisted that he would not reduce capital investment if the economy slowed down. Questioned by reporters in Dublin this morning, he said there was no change in the Government's "overall strategic approach", but said all policies had "to be put into a context of fiscal budgetary management of the economy".


Maurice McDowall on this morning's Newstalk news said that in his view infrastructural projects like Metro North and the Western Rail Link should be dropped and education prioritised. For a change, I agree with him and think that Metro North should be dropped and education, (particularly investment in teaching, IT and essential infrastructure) should be prioritised.

What would other posters drop, and what would you keep in the new, shrunk NDP?


Last edited by cactus flower on Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : to bring thread title up to date -)
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Thu May 29, 2008 5:43 pm

Well, I don't think we'll be needing road expansion plans for much longer (poss exception: M50) as Finfacts announced today that the major oil exporting countries volume of oil exports dropped by 2.5% last year. The BBC has also been picturing Gordon Brown pleading with North Sea producers

Anyway, petrol prices up = traffic down, so finish the road building already started and leave it at that. Anything public transport related, do it fast and make it electric (or getting people to work in a few years time will be problematic)! Yes, prioritise education, but road building will prove unnecessary fairly rapidly. Should save a few billion, except it might be useful to use that cash to put a Luas in Cork, Galway and Limerick...

The airport expansion stuff needs to get dumped, fast. Ryanair becomes unprofitable at $140 a barrel; I don't think this is a growth industry any more.

We desperately need more alternative energy sources and agricultural stuff might be a good investment, given what is happening to food prices

Plant some more trees... we might need the wood pellets....
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Thu May 29, 2008 7:41 pm

expat girl wrote:
Well, I don't think we'll be needing road expansion plans for much longer (poss exception: M50) as Finfacts announced today that the major oil exporting countries volume of oil exports dropped by 2.5% last year. The BBC has also been picturing Gordon Brown pleading with North Sea producers

Anyway, petrol prices up = traffic down, so finish the road building already started and leave it at that.
I thought this was one of those things the Greens did manage to get a deal on when they joined government, to scrap any proposed roads. Did they get anything? Mad
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Fri May 30, 2008 11:04 am

Even if they didn't this would seem to be an ideal opportunity for the Greens to step and and push for a sustainability agenda in deciding on reshaping the NDP.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Fri May 30, 2008 12:07 pm

It might be no harm to try to finish some roads by tolling them - €2 Limeric-Galway for example although it's going ahead anyway. Implementing the toll would probably be as costly. I'd like to see the roads paid for by drivers then the toll lowered to nominal fee or abolished after a period of time. I'd say many drivers might be amenable to that.

I think the Limerick - Dublin motorway is going to be finished soon but I don't know about the Cork-Dublin part, whether there's bits of it still left unmotorwayed, bottlenecking through small towns - ugh. I think they should hold tight though for the next wave of prosperity.

Dublin itself : this is the trouble with it now - a bit of a slowdown and vital transport projects get held up and the scheme slips down a step again... already Dublin is four or five steps back down a ladder from where it should be in terms of public transport when I think city-wide metro system would be justified if the engineering was possible (Dublin sandstone an issue?) Now could be a good time to go for low-tech projects everywhere - those cycle lanes and QBCs especially in Dublin - the QBCs have worked wonderfully in my experience of the Finglas one and the Stillorgan one.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Fri May 30, 2008 12:45 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
It might be no harm to try to finish some roads by tolling them - €2 Limeric-Galway for example although it's going ahead anyway. Implementing the toll would probably be as costly. I'd like to see the roads paid for by drivers then the toll lowered to nominal fee or abolished after a period of time. I'd say many drivers might be amenable to that.

I think the Limerick - Dublin motorway is going to be finished soon but I don't know about the Cork-Dublin part, whether there's bits of it still left unmotorwayed, bottlenecking through small towns - ugh. I think they should hold tight though for the next wave of prosperity.

Dublin itself : this is the trouble with it now - a bit of a slowdown and vital transport projects get held up and the scheme slips down a step again... already Dublin is four or five steps back down a ladder from where it should be in terms of public transport when I think city-wide metro system would be justified if the engineering was possible (Dublin sandstone an issue?) Now could be a good time to go for low-tech projects everywhere - those cycle lanes and QBCs especially in Dublin - the QBCs have worked wonderfully in my experience of the Finglas one and the Stillorgan one.

I've taken part in a couple of threads on Dublin transport recently on P.ie - my vote is for Curitiba style electric bus, much more cycling and walking. Will post link later for Curitiba, Braxil - best planned city in the world.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Fri May 30, 2008 9:31 pm

cactus flower wrote:


I've taken part in a couple of threads on Dublin transport recently on P.ie - my vote is for Curitiba style electric bus, much more cycling and walking. Will post link later for Curitiba, Braxil - best planned city in the world.

Curitiba really is held up as an example, isn't it? I remember my old Geography book had a whole page devoted to the wonders of the Curitiban transport system and its context in the prosperity of the city.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Fri May 30, 2008 9:43 pm

http://home.clara.net/heureka/gaia/curitiba.htm

It has gone from strength to strength - we should ship all our el/reps out there on a prolonged junket.

There may well be a role for light rail and metro - but not as currently on offer.

Bus Stop in Curitiba
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:18 pm

I've no access to Irish radio at the moment, but this is on Breaking News:

Quote :
08/07/2008 - 16:43:09
Finance Minister Brian Lenihan has unveiled his radical cost-cutting plan in a bid to save the Government €440m before the end of 2008 and a further €1bn next year.

Some of the key saving initiatives are listed below:

::Pay increases due to ministers, senior judges and civil servants have been put on hold until September 2010.

:: All public bodies – other than health and education – will have to cut their payrolls by 3%.

:: Consultant, advertising and public relations costs must be slashed by at least 50% by all departments and agencies.

:: The role of every quango will be examined to see if they can share services. Some could be amalgamated while others are abolished.

:: The buying of properties for government’s decentralisation programme has been suspended pending a report from the Decentralisation Implementation Group.

:: Major capital projects will be examined and prioritised.

:: Overseas aid will be cut by €45m.

:: Surplus staff in the Health Service Executive face been taken off the books following a review to be carried out by the Depts of Finance and Health. This scheme could run to other agencies where high staff numbers are identified.

:: A business plan for purchasing savings of at least €50m affecting all departments and public bodies will be produced by OPW and Finance Dept.

:: Savings will also be made when the Mahon Tribunal concludes.

What do members of MN think about the cuts? Baby, bathwater or both ?
The cut in overseas aid seems to me to be mean minded and will not make any difference to us, but a lot to the people not getting it.

It seems to me that a list of cuts is only a part of what we need - we need a thoroughgoing strategy for a new era of high energy costs, climate change, food shortages, as well as a new economic strategy that realistically addresses the problems we are facing and safeguards the position of people on low incomes.

So much money is being wasted, that massive savings should be possible without doing damage. In my view there should be a bottom-up process in which the people in Government Departments and the public nominate proposals for cuts and savings, rather than leaving it to an out of depth management who let the waste happen in the first place.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:40 pm

I am delighted that the "decentralisation" plan has been effectively ended. It is a great day for the effectiveness of our public service today. "Decentralisation" has been one of the worst policies of this Government so I am happy to see it being cancelled.

It's good to see some wringing of costs from the Exchequer, but it could go deeper. We should re-negotiate procurement for capital projects in order to get really large savings.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:47 pm

Quote :
I am delighted that the "decentralisation" plan has been effectively ended. It is a great day for the effectiveness of our public service today. "Decentralisation" has been one of the worst policies of this Government so I am happy to see it being cancelled.

You wouldn't, obviously be saying that if you lived in an area that had seen the positive benefits of decentralisation, but there's a notion among dubs that everything must happen in the city. There are thousands of civil servants whose quality of life, whose environmental impact and whose contribution to the financial and social welfare of their local areas have improved - for the benefit of all concerned.

Laois and Offaly have been up and running for a long time in terms of decentralisation - with parts of the Dept Ed in Tullamore and Ag in Portlaoise among others. I think Data Protection has moved to Portarlington.

Whatever about the effectiveness of the public service - and there are problems with decentralisation, I'm well aware of that - there is no reason why virtually everyone who wants to work in the civil service is obliged to work in Dublin. It's neither practical nor acceptable.

Many of the above cuts are those which could have been made long ago if there had been sincere efforts at being reasonable in the management of public finances.

I am sorry to see overseas aid being cut.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:01 pm

Kate P wrote:


You wouldn't, obviously be saying that if you lived in an area that had seen the positive benefits of decentralisation, but there's a notion among dubs that everything must happen in the city. There are thousands of civil servants whose quality of life, whose environmental impact and whose contribution to the financial and social welfare of their local areas have improved - for the benefit of all concerned.

I don't think everything needs to happen in the city but I don't think the "decentralisation" plan announced by Charlie McCreevy is good policy and was merely used to distract from a pretty poor Budget. It doesn't even correspond to the National Spatial Strategy. It doesn't contribute effectively to Balanced Regional Development and it doesn't contribute to effective government.

Quote :
Laois and Offaly have been up and running for a long time in terms of decentralisation - with parts of the Dept Ed in Tullamore and Ag in Portlaoise among others. I think Data Protection has moved to Portarlington.

Exactly. Parts. That is possible. The State Examinations Commission, the Garda Training College and Revenue Commissioners have been put around the country. They are parts of government departments and that is what makes that possible. "Decentralisation" moves whole departments around the country and undermines the idea of having a capital city and will add enormous costs to the public service and destroy the capacity for inter-departmental initiative.

Quote :
Whatever about the effectiveness of the public service - and there are problems with decentralisation, I'm well aware of that - there is no reason why virtually everyone who wants to work in the civil service is obliged to work in Dublin. It's neither practical nor acceptable.

Many of the above cuts are those which could have been made long ago if there had been sincere efforts at being reasonable in the management of public finances.

I am sorry to see overseas aid being cut.

I'm not. I don't see the point in foreign aid. I'd be much happier to sign free-trade agreements with developing countries and do business with them. $4 trillion has been expended on foreign aid with very little to show for it. It adds to corruption, inefficiency, breeds dependency and so on.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:30 pm

905 wrote:
expat girl wrote:
Well, I don't think we'll be needing road expansion plans for much longer (poss exception: M50) as Finfacts announced today that the major oil exporting countries volume of oil exports dropped by 2.5% last year. The BBC has also been picturing Gordon Brown pleading with North Sea producers

Anyway, petrol prices up = traffic down, so finish the road building already started and leave it at that.
I thought this was one of those things the Greens did manage to get a deal on when they joined government, to scrap any proposed roads. Did they get anything? Mad

100 million in grants for attic insulation. Environment and Transport providing both Ministers kept their mouths shut. Basically, less than Tony Gregory.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:37 pm

Kate P wrote:
Quote :
I am delighted that the "decentralisation" plan has been effectively ended. It is a great day for the effectiveness of our public service today. "Decentralisation" has been one of the worst policies of this Government so I am happy to see it being cancelled.

You wouldn't, obviously be saying that if you lived in an area that had seen the positive benefits of decentralisation, but there's a notion among dubs that everything must happen in the city. There are thousands of civil servants whose quality of life, whose environmental impact and whose contribution to the financial and social welfare of their local areas have improved - for the benefit of all concerned.

Laois and Offaly have been up and running for a long time in terms of decentralisation - with parts of the Dept Ed in Tullamore and Ag in Portlaoise among others. I think Data Protection has moved to Portarlington.

Whatever about the effectiveness of the public service - and there are problems with decentralisation, I'm well aware of that - there is no reason why virtually everyone who wants to work in the civil service is obliged to work in Dublin. It's neither practical nor acceptable.

Many of the above cuts are those which could have been made long ago if there had been sincere efforts at being reasonable in the management of public finances.

I am sorry to see overseas aid being cut.

Ironically, the only real decentralisation I have heard about is the re-establishment by the HSE of local management of health services. That, hopefully, will devolve decision-making on local services to a level at which there is some local knowledge and integration with other services.

Moving national decision-makers to all corners of the State means that they can't easily communicate with each other and it means that it is much harder for people to move around in the civil service and get wider experience and opportunities.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:38 pm

cf wrote
Quote :
Moving national decision-makers to all corners of the State means that they can't easily communicate with each other... .

This I might have believed ten years ago, but it's not the case anymore.

Quote :
and it means that it is much harder for people to move around in the civil service and get wider experience and opportunities

Hmmm. I'd have to argue with that too. Those who want to move on, can do so and move if they wish and are no worse off, probably than if all services were centralised in Dublin - where everyone HAD to be to get on. There are many promotion opportunities in decentralised areas because civil servants of all grades move. Having said that, a huge proportion of workers work in clerical grades, often women with children who prefer to be closer to their kids.

I don't think decentralisation is without its flaws, but service jobs are desirable and for years were limited to those who were happy to move lock, stock and expensive barrell to Dublin or to commute for hours.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:18 am

Kate P wrote:
cf wrote
Quote :
Moving national decision-makers to all corners of the State means that they can't easily communicate with each other... .

This I might have believed ten years ago, but it's not the case anymore.

Quote :
and it means that it is much harder for people to move around in the civil service and get wider experience and opportunities

Hmmm. I'd have to argue with that too. Those who want to move on, can do so and move if they wish and are no worse off, probably than if all services were centralised in Dublin - where everyone HAD to be to get on. There are many promotion opportunities in decentralised areas because civil servants of all grades move. Having said that, a huge proportion of workers work in clerical grades, often women with children who prefer to be closer to their kids.

I don't think decentralisation is without its flaws, but service jobs are desirable and for years were limited to those who were happy to move lock, stock and expensive barrell to Dublin or to commute for hours.

I think you're right that information technology has made decentralisation of some work perfectly practicable. There are pros and cons. Its the moving of whole departments top to bottom that's at issue now. The OECD's view was that it would lead to even less joined up government. Also when Department need specialists they are finding it impossible to recruit them on the basis of a move to Cavan.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:12 pm

Cuts in the Universities (damage to our central economic development strategy) and cuts of home helps (damage to the most vulnerable). Isn't this the opposite of what Cowen said would happen?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:42 pm

bounce
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:35 pm

At least spending money on the NDP will produce tangible and physical benefits. The huge increase in numbers and wages for public servants has had no such affect. Why dont we increase spending the NDP and reduce the public sector.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater   

Back to top Go down
 
The Current Spending and National Development Plan Cuts - Baby versus Bathwater
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» New $357bn National Development Plan (PFP)
» The New Iraq: One of the world's fastest growing economies
» Karbala plan construction projects completed within the budget for the development of the regions in 2012 21/04/2012 15:01
» Vice President of the House of Representatives will discuss with the US National Democratic Institute, the development of parliamentary work
» Central Bank: The Deficit in the Current Year Budget Is Not Illusory but Planned

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Machine Nation  :: Business and Finance :: Economy, Business and Finance-
Jump to: