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 Housing Crisis in Dublin - Government Parties' PPP Strategy Flops

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PostSubject: Re: Housing Crisis in Dublin - Government Parties' PPP Strategy Flops   Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:45 pm

There are about 6 hotels in Tallaght... absolute madness... I'd be surprised if 2 of them are still open in a years time. I stayed in the Louis Fitzgerald Hotel about 2 weeks ago for a night. It cost me 10 euro and I didn't see another guest in the lobby, in the lift or on the corridors.
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PostSubject: Re: Housing Crisis in Dublin - Government Parties' PPP Strategy Flops   Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:52 pm

johnfás wrote:
There are about 6 hotels in Tallaght... absolute madness... I'd be surprised if 2 of them are still open in a years time. I stayed in the Louis Fitzgerald Hotel about 2 weeks ago for a night. It cost me 10 euro and I didn't see another guest in the lobby, in the lift or on the corridors.

Where's that, johnfás? Any good?
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PostSubject: Re: Housing Crisis in Dublin - Government Parties' PPP Strategy Flops   Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:53 pm

Lads.... the developers are broke, and half of the stuff they have built is not sold; meanwhile, those that borrowed from Anglo at least are now in the hands of Our Glorious Leaders.....

does this mean the Government is about to repossess a load of housing??? Those on the social lists may find their prospects improved dramatically.......

Just wondering if anyone else is joining the same dots
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PostSubject: Re: Housing Crisis in Dublin - Government Parties' PPP Strategy Flops   Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:00 pm

It is at Newland's Cross, cactus. It suited getting to the airport for 5am which is why we used it. Ridiculously quiet though.

As I understand it, from my girlfriend's dad who is in the property business (eeeb What a Face) , alot of new hotels were built in a manner that they can be quickly turned into apartments. The idea was to get the tax break and then convert and sell. Obviously this will have backfired on any hotels which were built like this but it does present a good opportunity for local authorities to pick up really cheap hotels and convert them into truly affordable housing.
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PostSubject: Re: Housing Crisis in Dublin - Government Parties' PPP Strategy Flops   Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:17 pm

johnfás wrote:
It is at Newland's Cross, cactus. It suited getting to the airport for 5am which is why we used it. Ridiculously quiet though.

As I understand it, from my girlfriend's dad who is in the property business (eeeb What a Face) , alot of new hotels were built in a manner that they can be quickly turned into apartments. The idea was to get the tax break and then convert and sell. Obviously this will have backfired on any hotels which were built like this but it does present a good opportunity for local authorities to pick up really cheap hotels and convert them into truly affordable housing.

Maybe good for student's accommodation?
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PostSubject: Re: Housing Crisis in Dublin - Government Parties' PPP Strategy Flops   Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:19 pm

There has been alot of excess student accommodation built too as it was also covered by a tax scheme. By all accounts there are vacant units for students all around Limerick and Waterford. My girlfriend is considering living off campus for UL next year and when we looked at daft.ie we saw a supposed student residence place is actually now just advertising rooms on daft - they must be desperate for business.
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PostSubject: Re: Housing Crisis in Dublin - Government Parties' PPP Strategy Flops   Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:34 pm

expat girl wrote:
Lads.... the developers are broke, and half of the stuff they have built is not sold; meanwhile, those that borrowed from Anglo at least are now in the hands of Our Glorious Leaders.....
does this mean the Government is about to repossess a load of housing??? Those on the social lists may find their prospects improved dramatically.......
Just wondering if anyone else is joining the same dots
I thought it was just me who didn't understand why there was no talk about this when we nationalised Anglo Irish.
Surely we've been given the deeds to unsold unoccupied properties and sites all over the country?

I'd love to see apartment, currently used as collateral to Anglo loans, handed over to the state who then hand it over to those waiting for housing.
I'd like to undeveloped sites, like the Crown site in Galway turned into parks. Not much money needed for that.

And if we ever have to bail out AIB I want the state to take ownership of Lynch's Castle! Twisted Evil
I'm sounding like a mad leftie now..
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PostSubject: Re: Housing Crisis in Dublin - Government Parties' PPP Strategy Flops   Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:28 am

eoinmn wrote:
expat girl wrote:
Lads.... the developers are broke, and half of the stuff they have built is not sold; meanwhile, those that borrowed from Anglo at least are now in the hands of Our Glorious Leaders.....
does this mean the Government is about to repossess a load of housing??? Those on the social lists may find their prospects improved dramatically.......
Just wondering if anyone else is joining the same dots
I thought it was just me who didn't understand why there was no talk about this when we nationalised Anglo Irish.
Surely we've been given the deeds to unsold unoccupied properties and sites all over the country?

I'd love to see apartment, currently used as collateral to Anglo loans, handed over to the state who then hand it over to those waiting for housing.
I'd like to undeveloped sites, like the Crown site in Galway turned into parks. Not much money needed for that.

And if we ever have to bail out AIB I want the state to take ownership of Lynch's Castle! Twisted Evil
I'm sounding like a mad leftie now..
By nationalising Anglo didn't we take on a whole rake of overpriced loot ? As one Labour politician in the Dáil put it, to paraphrase - we could be buying a banger at forecourt prices.

We'll get lots of stuff, perhaps, but at what price ? And will we really get this stuff at all ? What is on their books - do we know ?

arrgghh
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PostSubject: Re: Housing Crisis in Dublin - Government Parties' PPP Strategy Flops   Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:39 am

expat girl wrote:
Lads.... the developers are broke, and half of the stuff they have built is not sold; meanwhile, those that borrowed from Anglo at least are now in the hands of Our Glorious Leaders.....

does this mean the Government is about to repossess a load of housing??? Those on the social lists may find their prospects improved dramatically.......

Just wondering if anyone else is joining the same dots
They bloody well should be. We have a large surplus of housing, and a large number on waiting lists for social housing. Now I'm no economist but I can't see any reason not to act. At this point we should be able to start moving people out of the old Dublin flats into newer housing.
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PostSubject: Re: Housing Crisis in Dublin - Government Parties' PPP Strategy Flops   Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:55 am

evercloserunion wrote:
expat girl wrote:
Lads.... the developers are broke, and half of the stuff they have built is not sold; meanwhile, those that borrowed from Anglo at least are now in the hands of Our Glorious Leaders.....

does this mean the Government is about to repossess a load of housing??? Those on the social lists may find their prospects improved dramatically.......

Just wondering if anyone else is joining the same dots
They bloody well should be. We have a large surplus of housing, and a large number on waiting lists for social housing. Now I'm no economist but I can't see any reason not to act. At this point we should be able to start moving people out of the old Dublin flats into newer housing.
A lot (most) of the people living in “old Dublin (Corpo) flats”, what there are of them, don’t want to move anywhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Housing Crisis in Dublin - Government Parties' PPP Strategy Flops   Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:07 am

True. But they should be given the option. And we should be able to tackle the waiting list.
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PostSubject: Re: Housing Crisis in Dublin - Government Parties' PPP Strategy Flops   Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:44 am

evercloserunion wrote:
True. But they should be given the option. And we should be able to tackle the waiting list.
Indeed, But I would rather see some effort made to entice private investment to the rented sector, particularly from Irish investors with money tied up in foreign stock, say giving a 2.5 /3% return, which would be attractive at the moment and for the foreseeable future, along side much stronger long term tenant legislation.
If the homes at or near finished state, owned by developers who are in trouble and might default, could be made available at a price, say 80% of cost or as much as 50% off original asking price, that would allow the banks to be repaid but no more and would allow the developers out with a 20% loss, but with skin intact and able to continue in business. This could mean a good quantity of 2/3/4 bedroomed houses/apartments available at 150,000 to 200,000 to investors with affordable rents of 400 + per month, secure tenancy rights and more money available to the banks to fund small business.
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PostSubject: Re: Housing Crisis in Dublin - Government Parties' PPP Strategy Flops   Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:07 pm

tonys wrote:
evercloserunion wrote:
True. But they should be given the option. And we should be able to tackle the waiting list.
Indeed, But I would rather see some effort made to entice private investment to the rented sector, particularly from Irish investors with money tied up in foreign stock, say giving a 2.5 /3% return, which would be attractive at the moment and for the foreseeable future, along side much stronger long term tenant legislation.
If the homes at or near finished state, owned by developers who are in trouble and might default, could be made available at a price, say 80% of cost or as much as 50% off original asking price, that would allow the banks to be repaid but no more and would allow the developers out with a 20% loss, but with skin intact and able to continue in business. This could mean a good quantity of 2/3/4 bedroomed houses/apartments available at 150,000 to 200,000 to investors with affordable rents of 400 + per month, secure tenancy rights and more money available to the banks to fund small business.


This is interesting and it is a good question to ask as to why billions are being poured into banks and effectively disappearing, whereas if the same money was going into improving people's living standards there would at least be some tangible benefits.

20% loss for some would mean just that - 20% loss, and possible bankruptcy. Under the circumstances though, it would be better for them than owing the whole lot.
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