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 Cyclists - The New Rich?

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PostSubject: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 1:18 am

Cycling in Ireland is expected to amount to one in ten of all journeys by 2020, but this may well be an underestimate. Cycling in London has become mainstream: with road pricing, tube bombs and the warmer dryer climate the number of cyclists has rocketed.

Noel Dempsey had brought in a cycling consultant who is proposing rights of way for cyclists across one way systems and other restrictions to shorten routes. The consultant sees the bike as being 'the second car' of the future and points out that in England and Wales it is the higher professional group that has moved into cycling big time.

It has long been a secret of the really rich that you don't tie up big money on cars that depreciate in value. Education and land are the long haul good bets. With oil prices going the way they are, perhaps cyclists are the new rich.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 1:30 am

Ah the old bicycle - wiki does it justice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance

Quote :
A bicycle's performance, in both biological and mechanical terms, is extraordinarily efficient. In terms of the amount of energy a person must expend to travel a given distance, investigators have calculated it to be the most efficient self-powered means of transportation.1 From a mechanical viewpoint, up to 99% of the energy delivered by the rider into the pedals is transmitted to the wheels, although the use of gearing mechanisms may reduce this by 10-15% 2 3.

Quote :
On firm, flat, ground, a 70 kg man requires about 100 watts to walk at 5 km/h. That same man on a bicycle, on the same ground, with the same power output, can average 25 km/h, so energy expenditure in terms of kcal/kg/km is roughly one-fifth as much. Generally used figures are

* 1.62 kJ/(km∙kg) or 0.28 kcal/(mile∙lb) for cycling,
* 3.78 kJ/(km∙kg) or 0.653 kcal/(mile∙lb) for walking/running,
* 16.96 kJ/(km∙kg) or 2.93 kcal/(mile∙lb) for swimming.

The average "in-shape" person can produce about 3 watts/kg for more than an hour (e.g., around 200 watts for a 70 kg rider), with top amateurs producing 5 watts/kg and elite athletes achieving 6 watts/kg for similar lengths of time. Elite track sprinters are able to attain an instantaneous maximum output of around 2,000 watts, or in excess of 25 watts/kg; elite road cyclists may produce 1,600 to 1,700 watts as an instantaneous maximum in their burst to the finish line at the end of a five-hour long road race. Even at moderate speeds, most cycling energy is spent in overcoming aerodynamic drag, which increases with the square of speed; therefore, power needs increase approximately with the cube of speed.

We need sh*tloads more cycle lanes and radwegs around the place
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 1:35 am

I grew up in a hilly place where only the mad had bikes. The first time I tried I broke my foot. In spite of several years as a motorbike rider, I've never overcome my fear of bikes.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 1:38 am

I used to cycle a lot when I was a wee one, but the traffic around here is crazy now, I'm taking my life in my hands walking home from the bus.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 1:43 am

My ass we're the new rich. I had to go and get my bike fixed today. New gears, chain, gear changer, left brake and front tyre and tube. Not much change out of 150 euro Sad And I'm reaching the point where the amount I'm pouring into keeping this one on the road - it's five years old - is rapidly moving towards parity with just buying a new one.

Incidentally the level of service in bike shops has collapsed. Waiting lists to get repairs done? Bah, humbug...
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 1:44 am

Incidentally, was that Switzerland you were brought up in cactus flower? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 1:45 am

Just wait until the 50 odd free bikes the Greens have negotiated with the hoarding company come on stream WBS...
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 1:49 am

Could as well have been. One person in my school rode a bike and he was killed stone dead when he hit a brick wall at the bottom of a hill.

Not wanting to discourage anyone though...

Talking of EU corporate lobbies (which we weren't), the EU is being painfully slow at making HGVs put on the extra mirrors that allow the drivers to see cyclists.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 5:00 pm

WorldbyStorm wrote:
My ass we're the new rich. I had to go and get my bike fixed today. New gears, chain, gear changer, left brake and front tyre and tube. Not much change out of 150 euro Sad And I'm reaching the point where the amount I'm pouring into keeping this one on the road - it's five years old - is rapidly moving towards parity with just buying a new one.

Incidentally the level of service in bike shops has collapsed. Waiting lists to get repairs done? Bah, humbug...
The service you got done was tantamount to putting a new engine in a car, as well as tweaking a few other things. How much do you think that'd cost in a car?
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 5:11 pm

Drivers certainly don't treat us like they should treat the upper echolens of society! I got knocked off my bike the other week by a man in a van!

I service my bike myself, makes it alot cheaper. Though I have recently bought a new bike, got it off the internet and put it together myself, saved alot of money. There is a problem with one of the wheels though so getting a friend to look at it in a week or so Very Happy.

I do think that spending an outrageous amount of money on a car because of its brand is pathetic though, and you're correct, they do depreciate in value the minute you get off the forecourt. The primary concern when you buy a car should be (a) safety (b) reliability and efficiency (c) how well it keeps its value.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 5:22 pm

johnfás wrote:


I service my bike myself, makes it alot cheaper. Though I have recently bought a new bike, got it off the internet and put it together myself, saved alot of money. There is a problem with one of the wheels though so getting a friend to look at it in a week or so Very Happy.

Ohh, do tell me more. I've been half heartedly looking at bikes the last few months but any time I see something I then see the price tag and go off the idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 5:25 pm

Think of what the feckers were going to charge you to insure a toyota prius and you might go back on the idea again, cm.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 5:28 pm

I bought it from a crowd in belfast called chain reaction cycles. They have an absolutely enormous website and free shipping throughout Ireland. I got myself a hybrid, so a mountain bike type frame but wheels slightly more akin to a racer, hence faster. The bike, along with a decent lock, mudguards, a water bottle and bracket all came to just under 200 euro.

The bike was delivered 48 hours after ordering and it was very easy to put together. The rear wheel and gears were already in place, all you needed to do was attach the front wheel, the handle bars and the peddles and there you go. Very good transaction for me anyway. They had a decent sale on at the time, but I am sure they crop up fairly regularly.

The current thing I'm looking for is an artificial cross-bar... does anyone know where I would pick one up? My girlfriend is moving to the University of Limerick at the end of the summer. I have a bike carrier that goes on the back of the car but you can't put a lady's bike on it because you hang the bike from the cross-bar. You can get one in the UK for around 25 euro, but was thinking closer to home would be handier.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 5:31 pm

Kate P wrote:
Think of what the feckers were going to charge you to insure a toyota prius and you might go back on the idea again, cm.

Aye, but a bike won't get me to work. Should my emploment change, however (please please please) I may conisder moving from Castle Monster to a pied-à-terre, in which case a bike might be more useful than a prius.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 5:59 pm

Quote :
The current thing I'm looking for is an artificial cross-bar... does anyone know where I would pick one up? My girlfriend is moving to the University of Limerick at the end of the summer. I have a bike carrier that goes on the back of the car but you can't put a lady's bike on it because you hang the bike from the cross-bar. You can get one in the UK for around 25 euro, but was thinking closer to home would be handier.

Don't Halfords do that kind of thing?
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 6:02 pm

I asked in Halfords in Carrickmines yesterday evening and the chap looked at me as if I had 3 heads... then he told me no they don't. I sort of got the impression it was more of an "I don't know" than a "no we don't" though. I might try Halfords somewhere else next week.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 6:04 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sat May 17, 2008 6:06 pm

Thanks Kate. Found just what I need!

Halfords Link

I'll bring a print out to them and get them to order one in if they don't have one in stock.


Last edited by cactus flower on Sat May 17, 2008 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : tidy link cf)
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sun May 18, 2008 12:29 am

TheBear wrote:
WorldbyStorm wrote:
My ass we're the new rich. I had to go and get my bike fixed today. New gears, chain, gear changer, left brake and front tyre and tube. Not much change out of 150 euro Sad And I'm reaching the point where the amount I'm pouring into keeping this one on the road - it's five years old - is rapidly moving towards parity with just buying a new one.

Incidentally the level of service in bike shops has collapsed. Waiting lists to get repairs done? Bah, humbug...
The service you got done was tantamount to putting a new engine in a car, as well as tweaking a few other things. How much do you think that'd cost in a car?

True, and by some yardsticks it's inexpensive. But, the bicycle, which is a Specialised, is becoming an expensive beastie to maintain (and I'm never entirely happy with the service in bicycle shops). And yet... I still can't quite move towards buying a new one. Where is the cut-off point? When one spends more than - say - half the price of a new one in a year simply maintaining it?
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sun May 18, 2008 12:30 am

johnfás wrote:
I asked in Halfords in Carrickmines yesterday evening and the chap looked at me as if I had 3 heads... then he told me no they don't. I sort of got the impression it was more of an "I don't know" than a "no we don't" though. I might try Halfords somewhere else next week.

Oddly enough I had reason to deal with Halfords with regard to a car during the last week. I found them actually okay - for an evil megachain...
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sun May 18, 2008 4:02 pm

cactus flower wrote:
I grew up in a hilly place where only the mad had bikes. The first time I tried I broke my foot. In spite of several years as a motorbike rider, I've never overcome my fear of bikes.

I'm a cyclist and I actually prefer a few hills. It's more of a challenge than the easy freewheeling drugery of flat-land.

I motorcyle too which means the car is mainly used as a taxi service (unpaid one tho..mumbles)
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sun May 18, 2008 9:26 pm

cactus flower wrote:
Just wait until the 50 odd free bikes the Greens have negotiated with the hoarding company come on stream WBS...
Jebus but you've got some odd notions when it comes to the Greens. The deal you're referring to was done by Dublin City Council.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sun May 18, 2008 10:00 pm

joemomma wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
Just wait until the 50 odd free bikes the Greens have negotiated with the hoarding company come on stream WBS...
Jebus but you've got some odd notions when it comes to the Greens. The deal you're referring to was done by Dublin City Council.





Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources Éamon Ryan has urged Dublin City Council to adopt the Parisian model for its city bicycle rental scheme.

The city council has signed a deal with outdoor advertising company JC Decaux for 450 bicycles in exchange for allowing the company street advertising space estimated to be worth in the region of €1 million annually.

JC Decaux already runs the Paris Velib scheme as well as several other bicycle rental schemes in Europe, but there are differences in how each system operates.



After a presentation at Paris town hall yesterday, Mr Ryan said he would like to see Dublin introduce the Paris scheme. "The best working example is Paris. People think they'll all be stolen, but when you can show such a good working system, I am hopeful. The scale of this is so good - 20,000 bicycles. You need that scale."

The scheme would work best if the mayor of Dublin had real power, like the mayors of Paris, London and New York, Mr Ryan said. The number of one-way streets in the Irish capital were also a deterrent to cyclists, he said.

At the Velib station outside the Paris town hall, Matthieu Fierling, the deputy head of the project, told the Minister how the city installed 750 wholly automatic bicycle stations last summer, has 1,200 across the city now, with a goal of 1,451 by this summer.

On average, 80,000 bicycle trips are made in Paris every day, with up to 120,000 on peak days. By next summer, the city will have 20,600 bicycles in service.

If cyclists were encouraged, Mr Ryan said, cities like Paris and Dublin "will reach a tipping point where the bicycles start to dominate the streets instead of the cars". Like Paris, he noted, Dublin was a flat city where the average journey was less than two miles.

"In the city, for any journey under four kilometres, the bicycle always wins, and it's the only form of transport that is door-to-door."

Because the average bicycle journey in Paris lasts 22 minutes, the designers of Velib made the first half-hour of bicycle rental free, to encourage people to return bicycles quickly, for maximum turnover. There is a €150 deposit to discourage theft; one can buy a day pass for €1, a week pass for €5 or an annual pass for €29.

"In Paris, the three deterrents were fears about theft, maintenance and parking," Mr Fierling said.

Velib bikes come with their own lock and basket. They are maintained by the contractor and there is a station where they can be returned every 300m.

By this summer, Paris will have invested a total of €90 millioin the Velib system and the street hoardings which finance it.

The city has also built 400km of bicycle lanes, many of which are shared by buses. Mayor Bertrand Delanoë made Velib self-financing by linking the contract for maintaining and renting the bicycles to a monopoly on 1,600 city-owned advertising hoardings.

Nearly 5 per cent of Dublin journeys are by bicycle, Mr Ryan said. "Once you get 7, 8 or 9 per cent, there's no reason you can't go to 20 per cent."
Lara Marlowe
©Irish Times 18.03.08


The scheme may not have been initiated by the Greens, but where were either this Minister of the Minister of the Environment when this outrageous scam scheme went through.

Did Green Councillors vote against? I am not sure. Everyone else seems to have recognised it was an appalling act: this from Archiseek:


Bikes-for-Billboards" scheme exposes major planning flaws
Plan Magazine
by Ruadhán Mac Eoin

It sounded like a fairytale, yet what was initially hailed as "free bikes" has become one of the biggest planning controversies to hit the capital in years.

The so-called "metropole" plan – whereby advertising company JC Decaux is to swap city advertising space for 450 bicycles has exposed major flaws in the capital's planning system – with elected representatives left out of a deal where they should have been instrumental.

Over the Christmas break of 2006/ 07, 70 applications were filed, followed by another 50 for billboards which are to be erected on public footpaths.

Remarkably, nobody seemed to tell the then Lord Mayor – or indeed the other councillors of this; this despite the requirement under section 183 of the Local Government Act which specifies that the release of public lands is a reserved function, necessitating a vote by councillors.

Yet councillors have not even been allowed to see the already-agreed contract, which officials describe as "commercially sensitive".

What councillors were told was that the non-cash deal was worth €85m to the city, although subsequently it has been claimed that the revenue generated by the billboards is only worth €1M per annum over the 15 year terms.

This scheme has been hit by a number of criticisms – chiefly that by virtue of a single project being split into 120 applications it was project-split and applied to an authority that had a vested interest in approving the scheme. Critics claimed that this meant that to comprehensively appeal the scheme to the Bord would have cost €30,000.

Fortunately for JC Decaux, all applications left with Dublin City Council were approved – with city planners staunchly defending the scheme and denying that there was any conflict of interest for the council to adjudicate on applications arising out of a scheme in which it has a vested interest. However some 24 units were appealed to An Bord Pleanála, resulting in two dozen successive hearings over three days in October – which an inspector herself described as "unprecedented".

Bizarrely the billboards all seem to have been earmarked for less well-healed areas; no application was lodged for Donnybrook, Ballsbridge, Sandymount, or Rathgar. Yet applications were made for Ringsend, Dorset Street, Coolock, and Fairview.

So how much are 120 billboards worth? Intriguingly it is claimed that the larger electronic billboards, displaying 3 different adverts, should each generate €8,000 per month – netting approximately €7M per annum, with the 50 smaller billboards making another €3M per annum. Hence over the 15 year terms the deal may have been worth €150 Million to JC Decaux.

So one estimate now puts each of the "free bikes" in the original deal at each costing the city over €300,000 in terms of foregone revenue. But that's not the only problem. In recommending that the Bord reject all units under appeal, Inspector Jane Dennihey reasoned that the applications were "premature".

One reason for her recommendation was the use by senior city planners of a map, entitled "Zones of Advertising Control", as now exclusively reproduced by Plan.

The hitch here is that councilors claim to have not even seen this map previously – never minded voted on it.

This throws suggests that key planning documents are being decided without any consultation with either the public or elected councillors, resulting in what An Taisce often calls as "rezonings without due process".

Notably the document is broken into areas that correspond with Dublin City Council Development Plan maps – yet equally notable is the absence of an official City Council stamp, or for that matter a date.
So the question must be asked: who drew up the map? And by what authority? It is now being acted upon as if it were already adopted policy?

Now the Bord has rejected 18 of the 24 units, permitting some of the smaller bus-shelter size units in pedestrian areas – while refusing all of the larger "Metropole" units which were to be7 sq m and standing 2m off the ground – primarily on grounds of road safety.

The ratio of bikes yielded by billboards was less than 4 per unit, although in Paris JC Decaux provide 13 bikes per unit as well as an annual rental of €2,085 per billboard over 10 years – while Dublin gets no cash over 15 years.

Paris also rolled out a programme of putting in place an additional 300 kilometres of cycle-ways in advance of their scheme.

Intriguingly, the original deal required 75% of all applications to be passed for the scheme to go ahead. However, even though only 72 billboards are now permitted, the deal is still going ahead – and where JC Decaux was to remove 100 existing billboards, as stipulated in each planning permission, city planner Jim Keogan is now saying that only 50 are to be removed – a change which critics say is unlawful.

The units are already under construction although no rental bikes are expected until next spring – and the units are distinctly different from that which was illustrated in the applications, with brown metal mesh detailing replacing what appeared to be solid chrome stands.

Split applications, dubious rezoning maps, and the Bord rejecting all "Metropoles": to add to this the Dublin City Business Association has written to Minister John Gormley asking him "to investigate". The only question is what's next? It's over to you, Minister.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sun May 18, 2008 10:11 pm

cactus flower wrote:
The scheme may not have been initiated by the Greens, but where were either this Minister of the Minister of the Environment when this outrageous scam scheme went through.
Thank you for accepting that correction. Eamon Ryan's comments in that article clearly imply a criticism of DCC for adopting such a limited scheme.
Quote :
Did Green Councillors vote against? I am not sure.
I don't know either - there's only one though, Bronwen Maher, so you could ask her.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyclists - The New Rich?   Sun May 18, 2008 10:20 pm

joemomma wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
The scheme may not have been initiated by the Greens, but where were either this Minister of the Minister of the Environment when this outrageous scam scheme went through.
Thank you for accepting that correction. Eamon Ryan's comments in that article clearly imply a criticism of DCC for adopting such a limited scheme.
Quote :
Did Green Councillors vote against? I am not sure.
I don't know either - there's only one though, Bronwen Maher, so you could ask her.

If you think that is criticism, then its not surprising that you are surprised at what I am saying. Where is the criticism? Why when An Taisce, FIE and every Tom Dick and Harriet with an interest in the Dublin environment was howling about this was there not a word I can find from the Greens. Help me here, I would really like to be wrong.

Perhaps Bronwen is out there somewhere and can put me straight.
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