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 Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?

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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Tue May 06, 2008 1:28 am

lostexpectation wrote:

that's clearly impractical.
would it not be easier to agree to always give a translation ?

No.

I'm someone who is far from fluent in Irish and yet at one stage sustained a rather long exchange of PMs as Gaeilge with Seathrún. If I was unsure about something at one stage, all I had to do was ask Seathrún and the Irish for it was forth-coming. In that way, a successful and meaningful exchange could develop.

I don't think it's much harm to see a bit of Irish outside the "An Gaeilge" forums. Stuff like "Cad é an foirgneamh seo?" agus rudaí mar sin were on threads like "A photo for ye" and there was a good flow(EvotingMachine had issues, but none that a quick PM wouldn't sort out) in both languages.

Also, we've had ein bisschen Deutsch hier in den Machine Nation. That's worked out rather well and if you don't understand something, Kate P could put you to rights.

It's not that hard, and as the world's conversationalists, we Irish can work it out. And Atticus.
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Tue May 06, 2008 1:40 am

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
lostexpectation wrote:

that's clearly impractical.
would it not be easier to agree to always give a translation ?

No.

I'm someone who is far from fluent in Irish and yet at one stage sustained a rather long exchange of PMs as Gaeilge with Seathrún. If I was unsure about something at one stage, all I had to do was ask Seathrún and the Irish for it was forth-coming. In that way, a successful and meaningful exchange could develop.

I don't think it's much harm to see a bit of Irish outside the "An Gaeilge" forums. Stuff like "Cad é an foirgneamh seo?" agus rudaí mar sin were on threads like "A photo for ye" and there was a good flow(EvotingMachine had issues, but none that a quick PM wouldn't sort out) in both languages.

a tottally irrelevant example of private consversation bewteen two people.
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Tue May 06, 2008 1:45 am

I'll split out the irish discussion so and we can debate there on whether or not we have a poll. Or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Tue May 06, 2008 2:03 am

Split off from charter consideration thread.

Are we going to post anywhere we want here in Irish? If we are do we need a translation for each thread?
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Tue May 06, 2008 2:08 am

Auditor #9 wrote:


Are we going to post anywhere we want here in Irish?

Yes.

Quote :
If we are do we need a translation for each thread?

No.
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Tue May 06, 2008 4:04 am

some people seem to have misconceived idea of bi-lingualism, bilingualism is when both languages are written or when two people can understand to each other in two languages.

a post in one language, irish, is monolingual.


ps for me irish equals exams. that's the only problem i have with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Tue May 06, 2008 4:33 am

lostexpectation wrote:
some people seem to have misconceived idea of bi-lingualism, bilingualism is when both languages are written or when two people can understand to each other in two languages.

a post in one language, irish, is monolingual.


ps for me irish equals exams. that's the only problem i have with it.

So, for example, given that most quebecans speak only french, and most other canadians speak only english, then Canada is not a bilingual country?


No one is suggesting the individuals posts will be bilingual by having such posts. what we are suggesting is that the entire forum will be bilingual by having such posts, and by giving posters equal rights to post their opinions in either Irish or english.
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Tue May 06, 2008 5:06 am

canada isn't entirely bi-lingual no, quebec is because i presume that signs and governement institutions and orgs print things in both french and english.

and I presume every quebecan can speak english (aswell as french) so alot of them would be bilingual

someone gave the example of the photo threead as bilingual, well it was based on pictures!!
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Tue May 06, 2008 10:50 am

lostexpectation wrote:
some people seem to have misconceived idea of bi-lingualism, bilingualism is when both languages are written or when two people can understand to each other in two languages.

a post in one language, irish, is monolingual.


ps for me irish equals exams. that's the only problem i have with it.


I wasn't tormented too much by Irish - I just missed out on it through moving around. Maths was my torment. I don't understand a lot of technical posts here, like what the heck is ubuntu, but it is nice to see people doing technical posts and it is very good for the site. I posted in emoticon on an Irish thread and couldn't understand the replies but now I have got the dictionary link (would someone pick the best one/s and put it on the portal?) I'll try to translate. There are people who do free Irish translation on line. Perhaps if we contacted them someone would be interested in doing it for this site. The people who have good school Irish don't neccessarily realise what it is like to have none or very very little. Maybe some kind of very safe absolute beginners thread if there was demand for it would be nice: people who have good school Irish could help those who have none - the games were good, but by the time I plucked up courage to post they weren't being used.

Could the site have named people who wouldn't mind helping/translating if they were pm'd?

I didn't like the way on P.ie it was all or nothing on a thread and no mingling of languages. Hopefully even if it is a bit of muddling along we can get the best of both worlds.
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Tue May 06, 2008 2:20 pm

lostexpectation wrote:
canada isn't entirely bi-lingual no, quebec is because i presume that signs and governement institutions and orgs print things in both french and english.

You obviously missed the point I was trying to make then. Canada is bilingual, because two separate languages are widely spoken there, not because every individual is bilingual. A bilingual institution means that the institution deals in two languages, it does not mean every individual need be bilingual. Likewise with this forum, it can be a bilingual forum without everybody speaking both languages, and without every post beem printed in both languages.



Quote :

and I presume every quebecan can speak english (aswell as french) so alot of them would be bilingual

No, they don't all speak english.

Quote :

someone gave the example of the photo threead as bilingual, well it was based on pictures!!

And?
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Tue May 06, 2008 3:49 pm

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
BuachaillBeo, lostexpectation. What about this:

Posters can post in whatever language they like, but if they are asked to provide a translation into another language by another poster, they should do so.

In practice, that would mean that BuachaillBeo could post in Irish only(if he wanted to) but, if lostexpectation wanted a translation into English, then BuachaillBeo would have to provide it. The translation could then be verified by riadach or anmajornathainig2 if it was an issue.
This sounds good to me, but I would add that, if requested to translate a post, the poster could choose to remove it instead. Much laz- quicker, you see.
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Tue May 06, 2008 7:26 pm

905 wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
BuachaillBeo, lostexpectation. What about this:

Posters can post in whatever language they like, but if they are asked to provide a translation into another language by another poster, they should do so.

In practice, that would mean that BuachaillBeo could post in Irish only(if he wanted to) but, if lostexpectation wanted a translation into English, then BuachaillBeo would have to provide it. The translation could then be verified by riadach or anmajornathainig2 if it was an issue.
This sounds good to me, but I would add that, if requested to translate a post, the poster could choose to remove it instead. Much laz- quicker, you see.

Well, the translation could be left to the poster in question and as I said, riadach, anmajornathainig2 and others like Seathrún would be able to verify the translation if needs be. I'm glad that you are positive towards this, 905.
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Sun May 11, 2008 3:30 pm

riadach wrote:
lostexpectation wrote:
canada isn't entirely bi-lingual no, quebec is because i presume that signs and governement institutions and orgs print things in both french and english.

You obviously missed the point I was trying to make then. Canada is bilingual, because two separate languages are widely spoken there, not because every individual is bilingual. A bilingual institution means that the institution deals in two languages, it does not mean every individual need be bilingual. Likewise with this forum, it can be a bilingual forum without everybody speaking both languages, and without every post beem printed in both languages.


which is why boards have specific irish forums,where the idea is that everyone can understand that language is a given in that forum, and then in the rest of the forums everyone can understand one or both.


Last edited by lostexpectation on Sat May 17, 2008 9:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Sun May 11, 2008 10:58 pm

lostexpectation wrote:
riadach wrote:
lostexpectation wrote:
canada isn't entirely bi-lingual no, quebec is because i presume that signs and governement institutions and orgs print things in both french and english.

You obviously missed the point I was trying to make then. Canada is bilingual, because two separate languages are widely spoken there, not because every individual is bilingual. A bilingual institution means that the institution deals in two languages, it does not mean every individual need be bilingual. Likewise with this forum, it can be a bilingual forum without everybody speaking both languages, and without every post beem printed in both languages.


which is why boards have specific irish forums,where the idea is that everyone can understand that language is a giving, and then in the rest of the forums we understand that not everyone can say we have the language everyone can understand or both.


I`m not sure I understand this last post. Can someone translate it into Irish or English please? Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Sun May 11, 2008 11:07 pm

I think it is that lostexpectation says that in an all Irish thread it is taken as read that every one has Irish, but in the other threads it cant be assumed to be the case.
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Sun May 11, 2008 11:35 pm

cactus flower wrote:
I think it is that lostexpectation says that in an all Irish thread it is taken as read that every one has Irish, but in the other threads it cant be assumed to be the case.

Thuig mé. I was just being dána.
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Sat May 17, 2008 11:10 am

Frankly, I can't see the problem with bilingual posts.

People should never be afraid to say "I don't know that" or "ní thuigim" and ask for an explaination.

I've contributed slightly cretinous puns in a few languages here, other than Irish. Languauges in which I have no ability whatsoever(including English).

Folks on here should be allowed to bring whatever spanners they require to tighten the bolts of our Machine Nation.

Níl ionam ach uirlís don Mheaisín
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Sat May 17, 2008 11:29 am

Now is a perfect time to use the present perfect - where have you been but in irish I can only say cá bhfuil tú...

An bhfuil tú ag teacht ar ais arís? Is anam Gaeilge don Maisín Náisiún tú...an daidí don Sibín Reoite tú. Tá five hundred euros ag an Ard Taoiseach chun deochanna a cheannach (25). Is maith lion deochanna boga afach
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Sat May 17, 2008 11:43 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
Now is a perfect time to use the present perfect - where have you been but in irish I can only say cá bhfuil tú...

An bhfuil tú ag teacht ar ais arís? Is anam Gaeilge don Maisín Náisiún tú...an daidí don Sibín Reoite tú. Tá five hundred euros ag an Ard Taoiseach chun deochanna a cheannach (25). Is maith lion deochanna boga afach

I am omnipresent in the ether. I'm always here even when I'm not.

Fear na spéirmhná atá mar phúca
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Sat May 17, 2008 12:20 pm

In your etherous omnipresence would you ever be interested on being on the emergency translation mechanics panel?

I'm hoping this will pan out as very relaxed and mixed up with on-line dictionary links for those like me linguistically challenged in the Irish department. Don't think babelfish does Irish yet.

Would it be a pain in the ass to drop in the odd key word in english translation?

I was thinking that the v small number of posters who want to be spoken to in Enlish only might have a little symbol next to their avatar or something.

What about the persons starting the thread says if they have any linguistic preference and otherwise multilingual is ok? or it this all too complicated and say we don't need any rules whatsoever we will just fudge along for the first 6 months and then review if it is working OK ?

The no-rule rule?
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Sat May 17, 2008 12:49 pm

cactus flower wrote:
In your etherous omnipresence would you ever be interested on being on the emergency translation mechanics panel?

I'm hoping this will pan out as very relaxed and mixed up with on-line dictionary links for those like me linguistically challenged in the Irish department. Don't think babelfish does Irish yet.

Would it be a pain in the ass to drop in the odd key word in english translation?

I was thinking that the v small number of posters who want to be spoken to in Enlish only might have a little symbol next to their avatar or something.

What about the persons starting the thread says if they have any linguistic preference and otherwise multilingual is ok? or it this all too complicated and say we don't need any rules whatsoever we will just fudge along for the first 6 months and then review if it is working OK ?

The no-rule rule?

I would say if a Machine doesn't need a tweekin don't tweek it.

As long as legal boundaries are laid out.

I don't think marking preferences or persons is in the spirit of things. I'd be glad to help out , Cactus, with any translations if required.
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Sat May 17, 2008 1:06 pm

As regards the colours of the irish speaking group - that was simply me pressing buttons I had seen before but never pressed Embarassed and bear no intention or design (unless to express my envy)

They can be removed very easily.
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Sat May 17, 2008 1:16 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
As regards the colours of the irish speaking group - that was simply me pressing buttons I had seen before but never pressed Embarassed and bear no intention or design (unless to express my envy)

They can be removed very easily.

I wasn't commenting on that. More attitude type stuff towards a particular language.

Me like me green name. Mes very happy with it.

Ná bí náire ort ná brónach
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Sat May 17, 2008 1:21 pm

An faigheann na daoine a bhfuil Gaeilge acu ainm glas?
Tá Gaeilge agam, so an feidir libh an dath ar mo ainm a aithrú? Le do thoil?
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PostSubject: Re: Should Irish threads posted outside the Gaeilge forum be translated?   Sat May 17, 2008 2:28 pm

Go raibh mile maith agaimh.
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