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 The Throttling of Development In Ireland

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PostSubject: Re: The Throttling of Development In Ireland   Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:12 pm

Build new ones.
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PostSubject: Re: The Throttling of Development In Ireland   Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:18 pm

Squire wrote:
Build new ones.

The inertia is unbelievable.
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PostSubject: Re: The Throttling of Development In Ireland   Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:20 am

So it's being generally felt now that Dublin has become a huge mess ?? It's not difficult to feel this in Dublin - for one there is the overwhelming notion that there is very little green area in the city. This is not so true considering the Phoenix Park is one of the biggest urban parks in Europe at least. However, there is very little green belt planning at intervals around the city - the Phoenix Park is a single, consecutive park area that would be better off getting broken up into developmental areas and park while other developed areas might be better off getting levelled and turned into park, thus spreading the park area around the city.

There is little or no public park area being planned either is there? Parkland is the lungs of the city, among other things. There is very little on the Northside too - St. Anne's in Raheny, again a massive park all in one area while there is feck all in other spots - there is no generous park area immediately north of the liffey for instance. Could it be at all true that the lack of 'city lungs' or 'sponge' is responsible for the flooding of some of the rivers in Dublin in recent times? There is less and less soakage in the ground - could that be true?

And it seems to be getting worse if more development is piled on to what's there already - the city already has a shortage of water and the Dublin area plans to take it from the Shannon which is slated to become such a point of contention as to make Rossport look like the Teddybear's Picnic .. is this because the Dublin area was milked by developers at the cost of suckers who now may have to pay mortgages of 900k - 2 million with interest - on a house that could be worth 5-600k for the rest of their lives if the market should drop more and stay down (which it might - who the hell knows for sure?)

And the next thing could be the Outer Orbital Route if the port does get relocated to the north of the city.

Apparently there is a lake of water under north county Dublin and Meath but will not be used because a landfill site is required for the city.

If the truth were known we could be having Tribunals forever.
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PostSubject: Re: The Throttling of Development In Ireland   Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:31 am

North Dublin is particularly hard done by when it comes to parkland. That said it is only about 4 miles from O'Connell Street to the northern hinterland of the city whereas it is about 6 miles to the southern hinterland. The Phoenix Park is an excellent resource for many and it is very much more accessible via bus route to the northside of the city. That said, south Dublin is quite well served whether it is Bushy Park in Terenure, Marley and St Enda's in Rathfarnham, Deer Park up Stillorgan Direction, The People's Park in Dun Laoghaire or even Belfield which is used as a recreational resource by many.
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PostSubject: Re: The Throttling of Development In Ireland   Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:43 am

4 miles? handy when you're having your sandwich on a sunny lunchtime alright, johnfás. there is a little park near the Hill 16 pub near Mountjoy square but would you go there? generally there isn't enough park area at any walking distance in the city. I'm sure there's some equation referring to distance from shoreline or park in a city in order to give people who live there the proper environment; Manhattan island is two miles wide so when you're in the big city you are never more than a mile from the river which is more of a sea there.

I think Dublin lacks air and I'd imagine London is similar but I wouldn't bet on it. Even plazas or open public areas would be welcome.

Dublin is fecked though lads - fecked I tell ye ...
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PostSubject: Re: The Throttling of Development In Ireland   Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:51 am

It isn't useful for your sandwich at lunchtime, but it is useful when you want to go to the park on a Saturday. I would entirely agree that the north inner city is bereft of grassland. I think the Garden of Remembrance should be edited in order to install more grass. You do have mountjoy square but I doubt many people have their lunch in it.

London doesn't have alot of parkland in the Financial District but it does have great parkland in the rest of the city, far more so than Dublin. Whether it is Hyde Park, Green Park/St James Park, Regents Park or Russell Square. The breadth of the Thames and the height of its banks also makes it far more of a social utility than the Liffey is. The boardwalk has been a decent idea in Dublin but it appears to have fallen on hard times. It would also be good if it were on both banks of the river.
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PostSubject: Re: The Throttling of Development In Ireland   Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:22 pm

It's amazing that there was so much development at all given the amount of money that is handed over for the land under your house.

Michael Hennigan wrote:
Economist Jerome Casey, who is editor of the Building Industry Bulletin in a report in 2003, said that site costs accounted for 42.5% of the cost of a house nationwide. Casey said that typically in the mid 1990s, Durkan Brothers sold apartments off O'Connell Street for £35,000 to £40,000 (€44,440 to €50,790) for which the site cost was £5,000. But a decade later, both the Irish Council for Social Housing and private house builders were reporting city house site costs at up to 50% of the house price. Outside the cities, site costs can represent up to 40% of the house price. For the country as a whole, site costs may now constitute 42.5% of the house price, an increase of almost 30 percentage points on the pre-boom position. In Dublin that increases to 50%. Overall the Irish figures are grossly out of line with the rest of the developed world.

In the US land accounts for 20% of the total cost of a house. In Denmark the figure is similar while in Portugal the land factor drops to 15%.

It is similar for the rest of Europe. Casey estimated that the 30% differential between land prices for houses in Ireland accounted for about €6.6 billion of the total new and second hand housing market, estimated to be worth €22 billion in 2002.

By applying the 30% margin on the cost of land, Casey said the amount of surplus profit for the key landowners was estimated at €300 million. In his report Casey said the major issue was that just 25 individuals or companies controlled more than half of the housing development land in the Fingal area. That includes Balbriggan, Lusk, Donabate and other well- known areas targeted for development on Dublin’s expanding north side.

It's interesting that there is very little official data published on development land sales as it suits both FF and farmers.

In the past land distribution via the Land Commission was used by FF to reward its supporters and it was not a matter of just giving land to farm labourers, Existing farmers from the West of Ireland who were FF supporters, were given prime land in West Dublin, Meath and Kildare.
Michael Hennigan on P.ie
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PostSubject: Re: The Throttling of Development In Ireland   Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:55 pm

cf, a dangerous move? Referring to a NATO debate here on P.ie directly under an FT post Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The Throttling of Development In Ireland   Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:01 am

Slim Buddha wrote:
cf, a dangerous move? Referring to a NATO debate here on P.ie directly under an FT post Smile

Just answering that poor poster's question Wink
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PostSubject: Re: The Throttling of Development In Ireland   Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:18 am

Aaargh

Just a bit of news on Eco Building (where else here will I put it) from Ecogeek. What's this thing about LEED certification and why didn't we have it before for houses? http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1963/66/

Now. you know the Gold Shield Homes stamp - is it something like that ? In Gold Shield equiptment you get quality and things like hot water tanks which are more like Thermos flasks, keeping your water hot for weeks. Builders and banks could be beaten into submission on these things by the people so the likes of Edo can build his Bag End for a price that's human.

Ecogeek off and on reports on housing developments that are completely fossil-fuel-free, but I doubt they ban petrol cars there yet. There's one going up in Colorado for next year.
http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1989/66/

And just in, these dudes are building a solar powered fridge


Solar Fridge
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PostSubject: Re: The Throttling of Development In Ireland   Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:22 am

I've just moved my fridge out of the house to a nice cool outhouse.
The other way of reducing the amount of energy used by a fridge/freezer is to fill all the gaps with bags full of water - the more ice the colder it stays.
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PostSubject: Re: The Throttling of Development In Ireland   Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:19 pm

Here is a report from the ClarePeople newspaperm the subject of which I've been cribbing about here. Half a billion euros down the swanny because we haven't built decent waste water system here. Not surprising that the coffers of the Clare Country Council have unswollen this year unlike the River Fergus. The proverbial shooting your own foot is here.

(in fairness some developments are on a flood plain of the river but still ... )

Quote :
Down the Drain

The greater Ennis area has lost out on a half a billion euro in investment over the past 12 months as Clare County Council’s inability to accommodate new development begins to hit home.
The latest planning application to fall victim to inadequate local infrastructure is the €50 million retail park proposed for a 48 acre site adjacent to the Ennis bypass.
The application by Stephen Harris was refused due to the lack of proper sewage and flood relief systems and follows the local authority planners refusing planning permission to over 1,000 homes and a second retail park in the past year because of inadequate infrastructure.
A new €75 million sewage treatment plant won’t be operational until 2012 and along with the loss to the local economy, the council has also lost out on €10 million in developer contributions over the past 12 months.
One of the county’s best known businessmen, Brian McCarthy of Brian McCarthy Contractors expressed his concern at the situation.
“It is very frustrating that at a time of decline in the construction sector, potential employment and development is stalled because of problems with the funding of this vital piece of infrastructure,” he said.
Along with large scale planning applications coming to a halt, the council is facing “a crisis of unbelievable proportions” according to Cllr PJ Kelly (FF).
Latest figures provided by the council show the local authorities received only €739,000 in contributions for the first half of the year –down 74 per cent on the €2.9 million received for the same period last year.
The monies from developer contributions are required to finance new council capital programmes and Mayor of Clare, Cllr Madeleine Taylor-Quinn (FG) said, “It is a dramatic drop and reflects the economic downturn in the county. It will present challenges to the council as it prepares its budget for 2009.”
Ennis Town Engineer, Tom Tiernan said however that moves are being made to provide an interim measure in order to allow planning permission to proceed for large scale developments.
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PostSubject: Re: The Throttling of Development In Ireland   Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:39 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Here is a report from the ClarePeople newspaperm the subject of which I've been cribbing about here. Half a billion euros down the swanny because we haven't built decent waste water system here. Not surprising that the coffers of the Clare Country Council have unswollen this year unlike the River Fergus. The proverbial shooting your own foot is here.

(in fairness some developments are on a flood plain of the river but still ... )

Quote :
Down the Drain

The greater Ennis area has lost out on a half a billion euro in investment over the past 12 months as Clare County Council’s inability to accommodate new development begins to hit home.
The latest planning application to fall victim to inadequate local infrastructure is the €50 million retail park proposed for a 48 acre site adjacent to the Ennis bypass.
The application by Stephen Harris was refused due to the lack of proper sewage and flood relief systems and follows the local authority planners refusing planning permission to over 1,000 homes and a second retail park in the past year because of inadequate infrastructure.
A new €75 million sewage treatment plant won’t be operational until 2012 and along with the loss to the local economy, the council has also lost out on €10 million in developer contributions over the past 12 months.
One of the county’s best known businessmen, Brian McCarthy of Brian McCarthy Contractors expressed his concern at the situation.
“It is very frustrating that at a time of decline in the construction sector, potential employment and development is stalled because of problems with the funding of this vital piece of infrastructure,” he said.
Along with large scale planning applications coming to a halt, the council is facing “a crisis of unbelievable proportions” according to Cllr PJ Kelly (FF).
Latest figures provided by the council show the local authorities received only €739,000 in contributions for the first half of the year –down 74 per cent on the €2.9 million received for the same period last year.
The monies from developer contributions are required to finance new council capital programmes and Mayor of Clare, Cllr Madeleine Taylor-Quinn (FG) said, “It is a dramatic drop and reflects the economic downturn in the county. It will present challenges to the council as it prepares its budget for 2009.”
Ennis Town Engineer, Tom Tiernan said however that moves are being made to provide an interim measure in order to allow planning permission to proceed for large scale developments.

This brings it home that local government as well as national government has allowed itself to become overreliant on development charges and levies to pay for public services. The people who made the decisions to use this as a means of funding current expenditure and unrelated capital spending I presume had no understanding of the cyclical nature of development booms. Other taxes are going to have to be raised.

On the sewerage, the situation is similar in half the towns in Ireland.
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