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 A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?

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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:51 pm

It is amazing to me that people are talking about a new cold war. These donkeys are going all out to start a nuclear war. Every day it more clear and yet the happy bullshythe continues. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1050064/Russia-warns-US-naval-build-lead-war-accuses-America-shipping-arms-Georgia.html

The neo cons have got to move now as the financial house of cards is comimg down
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:26 pm

youngdan wrote:
It is amazing to me that people are talking about a new cold war. These donkeys are going all out to start a nuclear war. Every day it more clear and yet the happy bullshythe continues. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1050064/Russia-warns-US-naval-build-lead-war-accuses-America-shipping-arms-Georgia.html

The neo cons have got to move now as the financial house of cards is comimg down

I think Slimbuddha is right and that the days when the IMF, WTO and World Bank were good enough means of daylight robbery for the "advanced nations" to rook the less developed are coming to a close. They will have to use force or back down. The EU is threatening Russia with sanctions and Russia is saying that in that event Russia will not come off the worst. It could be a cold winter ahead with a lot of closed factories.

Russia tested an IBM today they claimed could evade radar and an ABM shield. The Black Sea is awash with war ships, NATO and Russian. An arms dump went up in the Ukraine today, caught in a forest fire they said. An amazing sight. I trust there were no any nuclear weapons there.
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:40 pm

Haaa! The old forest fire trick again
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:41 pm

youngdan wrote:
Haaa! The old forest fire trick again

It put the Olympic fireworks in the ha'penny place.
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:40 pm

Putin has come out and said that it's all John McCain's fault, kinda. Did I have a flashback of Ari Fleischer (was that his name?) and Rumsfeld in the White House press briefing room stirring it up just before they went into Afghanistan ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7586605.stm
Quote :
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has accused the US of provoking the conflict in Georgia, possibly for domestic election purposes.

Mr Putin told CNN US citizens were "in the area" during the conflict over South Ossetia and were "taking direct orders from their leaders".

He said his defence officials had told him the provocation was to benefit one of the US presidential candidates.

The White House dismissed the allegations as "not rational".
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:48 pm

cactus flower wrote:
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSLR1435520080828

Saakashvili has consolidated his position (as predicted) as the Opposition have declared a "truce" for the duration.

Russia is isolated. As I said, between a rock and a hard place.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/World/mhqlojcwqlsn/

Imo things are very dangerous at the moment. I think the US election is part of the significant background to this. A war would be good for McCain and bad for Obama.

Putin reading MN now d'ye think ?
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:56 pm

cactus flower wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSLR1435520080828

Saakashvili has consolidated his position (as predicted) as the Opposition have declared a "truce" for the duration.

Russia is isolated. As I said, between a rock and a hard place.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/World/mhqlojcwqlsn/

Imo things are very dangerous at the moment. I think the US election is part of the significant background to this. A war would be good for McCain and bad for Obama.

Putin reading MN now d'ye think ?
A nuclear strike on Shannon will not, repeat: will not affect U.S. troop movements and landing ability as their forces there are a decoy only, repeat: are a decoy only and it would be better to use that nuke for Knock or better Dublin, repeat, DUBLIN.
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:16 am

Putin is on CNN now affirming that there were American civilians on the ground who he believes were put there by their government in order to provoke Russia/Georgia etc And now Russia is putting sanctions on American chicken ... This is feckin mad at this stage
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:33 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
Putin is on CNN now affirming that there were American civilians on the ground who he believes were put there by their government in order to provoke Russia/Georgia etc And now Russia is putting sanctions on American chicken ... This is feckin mad at this stage

Well the US boycotted french fries, so I suppose it makes sense.
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:29 am

Nothing mad about it at all did I not tell ye the plan is for a NWO and a population of 500 million.
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:39 am

youngdan wrote:
Nothing mad about it at all did I not tell ye the plan is for a NWO and a population of 500 million.
There's no way a war can be won. The earth would be devastated if full nuclear war is to be the ulitmate outcome of this. Unless you think Putin, Bush and Obama are all in the same NWO club and will nuke only major cities, destroying masses of urbanities who won't survive anyway in the new feudal society that is laid out for us ...

There'll be plenty of work afterwards at least.
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:45 am

youngdan wrote:
Nothing mad about it at all did I not tell ye the plan is for a NWO and a population of 500 million.

Sadly, I think you are closer to the truth than anyone who thinks business can continue as usual. Anyone who wants to know what plans are for populations drowned out by climate change look at New Orleans. Don't evacuate and send the military in to protect property. They are still finding bodies in attics. But this isnt an arcane plot written by Alex Jones and Dan Brown. Its business as usual for big money. There clearly are much better alternatives that we could choose.

Lara Marlowe, who is anti-Russian in this, said this morning that the French Secret Service says they have evidence that US military was directly involved in the Georgian attack on South Ossetia and in fact targetted missiles on the town. Does anyone have a link on this?

I haven't read all the articles on this link that look at Israeli (AKA US) involvement in Georgia, and the possibility that Israel was to use Georgian air bases for an attack on Iran.

http://www.rense.com/general83/isrpl.htm'

Youngdan's favourite Brzezinski set out the US stall:
Quote :
What's at stake is what former National Security advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski described in his 1997 book "The Grand Chessboard." He called Eurasia the "center of world power extending from Germany and Poland in the East through Russia and China to the Pacific and including the Middle East and the Indian subcontinent." He continued: "The most immediate (US) task is to make certain that no state or combination of states gains the capacity to expel the United States from Eurasia or even to diminish significantly its decisive arbitration role." Dominating that part of the world and its vast energy and other resources is Washington's goal with NATO and Israel its principal tools to do it:

http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/2008/081308Lendman.shtml

An American on why do we swallow all the lies:

http://baltimorechronicle.com/2008/082708Roberts.shtml

This is another American blogger who says the US is responsible for the attack:
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_3613.shtml

The picture gets clearer by the day. The US in the 20th century sat back and watched France, Germany, Russia and Britain batter eachother senseless in two world wars and then stepped into the ruins with its forces intact. The EU and Russia were scheduled to start talks in a few months to establish a closer EU Russian relationship. That looks a whole lot less easy now.

The EU has no oil and gas, but well developed industry and technology. Why wouldn't we share this with Russia and help it develop its very underdeveloped productive capacities, and also reduce oil dependency through developing renewables?
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:18 pm

Is there any way out of this impasse? Even Tarzan is getting involved - read on:

Quote :
South Ossetia pledges to 'become Russian'

Georgia’s breakaway province of South Ossetia said today it will eventually become Russian territory.

The country’s parliamentary speaker Znaur Gassiyev said that Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and the region’s leader Eduard Koikoty discussed the future of South Ossetia earlier this week in Moscow.

Moscow has recognised South Ossetia and another separatist region of Georgia as independent, drawing criticism from the West.

Mr Gassiyev said today that Russia will absorb South Ossetia “in several years” or earlier. He said that position was “firmly stated by both leaders.”

His deputy, Tarzan Koikoti, added that South Ossetians have the right to reunite with North Ossetia, which is part of Russia.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/World/mhqlojmhidgb/

I haven't a clue what's international protocol for recognising a country or region's desire to be one thing or the other but couldn't there be some form of vote in the region? It'd be interesting to know how another referendum would go, this time in Georgia itself and another again in S.O. Is this route any way valid as a way of identifying what places want or is there a fear that the world would collapse into international anarchy (thereby endangering all the massive Corporations who depend on the world as it is setup now?)

I'm not aware if there was already a referendum in Georgia itself - was there? Should/could there be world referenda on this type of thing ???
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:44 pm

Russia may cut off oil flow to the west - pi.e discussion on the latest.

The Telegraph article

The new cold war might get colder... watch these numbers

Crude at $116 a barrel

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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:59 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Russia may cut off oil flow to the west - pi.e discussion on the latest.

The Telegraph article

The new cold war might get colder... watch these numbers

Crude at $116 a barrel


This is not going to happen. The relatonship between Russia and Germany is good and France and Germany will not go down this road. Nor will they allow Milliband try to railroad them into a ridiculous action which is not in the interest of either Russia or the EU.
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:52 pm

Russia warns will respond to "aggression"

Quote :
By Christian Lowe

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia does not want confrontation with the West but will hit back if attacked, Kremlin leader Dmitry Medvedev said on Sunday, a day before EU leaders meet to draft a response to Moscow's actions in Georgia.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown on Sunday said he would press fellow European Union leaders to review ties with Russia in retaliation for Moscow's decision to sent troops to Georgia and recognize two Georgian breakaway regions.

But underlining the differences in approach inside the 27-member EU, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier took a softer line, saying isolating Russia would harm the interests of the bloc.

A senior U.S. diplomat said Washington hoped the EU would express strong and concrete support for Georgia's territorial integrity, and urged Europe to reduce its dependence on Russian energy supplies.

Medvedev faces growing condemnation from the West, which accuses Russia of occupying parts of Georgia, while the Kremlin said it acted to prevent what it called genocide against the separatist regions.

"Russia does not want confrontation with any country. Russia does not plan to isolate itself," Medvedev said in an interview with Russia's three main television stations.

But he added: "Everyone should understand that if someone launches an aggressive sortie, he will receive a response." He said Russian law allowed the Kremlin to impose sanctions on other states, though it preferred not to go down that path.

ROOT-AND-BRANCH REVIEW Continued...

So what's going to happen over the next few days with the EU's outlook towards Russia? I hope it's along the lines of the Steinmeier tack above.
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:59 pm

There was a US academic on RTE radio today - I didn't get his name, saying that the US stance is totally unsustainable and nuts.

I think I'll email our TDs and ask them would they ever cop on.
The US squeeze on corporate tax may make them even more timid than usual though.
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:09 pm

cactus flower wrote:
There was a US academic on RTE radio today - I didn't get his name, saying that the US stance is totally unsustainable and nuts.

I think I'll email our TDs and ask them would they ever cop on.
The US squeeze on corporate tax may make them even more timid than usual though.

Steinmeier will get 7 or 8 countries to immediately go along with the German position. Britain and Poland will do some posing but ultimately will not be listened to. Our lot should keep schtum until the consensus forms and then go along with it.
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:47 pm

Slim Buddha wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
There was a US academic on RTE radio today - I didn't get his name, saying that the US stance is totally unsustainable and nuts.

I think I'll email our TDs and ask them would they ever cop on.
The US squeeze on corporate tax may make them even more timid than usual though.

Steinmeier will get 7 or 8 countries to immediately go along with the German position. Britain and Poland will do some posing but ultimately will not be listened to. Our lot should keep schtum until the consensus forms and then go along with it.

No chance of that. Willie O'Dea will want a piece of action.
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:03 am

I have a lot to say but I am stuck for time. A reread of The Greatest Con of all Time should be undertaken http://machinenation.forumakers.com/site-development-and-visitors-book-f29/the-greatest-con-of-all-time-t573.htm#13907

I think my theory of 6 months ago has been proven by Putin's resulute stance. The NWO fools in the West thought they could control Russia and the Russians have tricked them.

I put a lot of work into that thread and a lot of events down through the years adds credence to it. Gorbachov is a NWO Globalist with his big operation in I think either NY or DC but Putin is a Nationalist
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:13 am

How have the Russians tricked them? Do you think they started the Georgian invasion somehow?
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:15 am

youngdan wrote:
I have a lot to say but I am stuck for time. A reread of The Greatest Con of all Time should be undertaken http://machinenation.forumakers.com/site-development-and-visitors-book-f29/the-greatest-con-of-all-time-t573.htm#13907

I think my theory of 6 months ago has been proven by Putin's resulute stance. The NWO fools in the West thought they could control Russia and the Russians have tricked them.

I put a lot of work into that thread and a lot of events down through the years adds credence to it. Gorbachov is a NWO Globalist with his big operation in I think either NY or DC but Putin is a Nationalist

That's a good thread all right youngdan. Perhaps we should bump it ? Its certainly a possibility that the US government misjudged. But then it is also possible that they wanted to draw Russia out.
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:16 am

Sorry, what's this about the US government? What had they to do with the Georgian attack?
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:21 am

905 wrote:
Sorry, what's this about the US government? What had they to do with the Georgian attack?

According to your good friend Lara Marlowe ( in this case, vehemently pro Georgian ) the French IS is saying that US soldiers targetted the missiles that were fired at Tskhinvali.
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PostSubject: Re: A Shot Across Nato's Bows - Russian tanks enter Georgia - Georgians enter South Ossetia - all out war?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:41 am

And have French backed this up in any manner? For a country supposedly on the brink of war with Iran, it would be a singularly foolish thing for the Americans to promote this war. After Kosovo, it was the job of the West to avoid this kind of scenario.
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