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 The Character of the EU

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PostSubject: Re: The Character of the EU   Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:02 am

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PostSubject: Re: The Character of the EU   Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:18 am

I'll also take this opportunity to reckon that I think I am very fond of the notion of Libertarianism - free market anarchism ... I don't know if the EU or Ireland or even anywhere is really Libertarian though.
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PostSubject: Re: The Character of the EU   Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:47 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
I'll also take this opportunity to reckon that I think I am very fond of the notion of Libertarianism - free market anarchism ... I don't know if the EU or Ireland or even anywhere is really Libertarian though.

It's not a stable system past a certain point of population density. It evolves into something else - often some form of democracy.
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PostSubject: Re: The Character of the EU   Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:58 am

To hold all the little pieces together from the top do you mean, ibis? Are there any instances of it in existence that you know? - Libertarian communities (sounds religious)
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PostSubject: Re: The Character of the EU   Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:01 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
To hold all the little pieces together from the top do you mean, ibis? Are there any instances of it in existence that you know? - Libertarian communities (sounds religious)

In the US, surprisingly...recent, though. Indeed, still being created.
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PostSubject: Re: The Character of the EU   Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:06 am

ibis wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
To hold all the little pieces together from the top do you mean, ibis? Are there any instances of it in existence that you know? - Libertarian communities (sounds religious)

In the US, surprisingly...recent, though. Indeed, still being created.
That's feckin amazing !! Where did you find that ?! That's one for the Radical Politics section straight away, that link. Fair play.


Last edited by Auditor #9 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Character of the EU   Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:46 am

Why didn't Sweden, Denmark and England abandon their national currency and opt for the Euro?

By way of a just a bookmark and a bump

Is it significant in any way to the character of the EU that the currency wasn't universally adopted? Would an economic bloc be disadvantaged in some way by having a universal currency? Isn't it necessary that trading areas keep some of their autonomy in this regard for the overall good? Adjacent trading areas with significant price differences between them can contribute to trade and activity... presently goods are flowing southwards from NI (and others about to flow Northwards CedarLounge) and people are flowing westwards from Eastern Europe and nurses flow everywhere all the time . It seems that currency differences may contribute to economic activity . Would it be a bad thing if the Euro was everywhere?


Last edited by Auditor #9 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:17 am; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : added CedarLounge ref. and got some brackets and corrected a few typos)
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PostSubject: Re: The Character of the EU   Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:38 am

Auditor, why not go to The Libertarian Party website and read what they stand for because it is misunderstood by some people. www.lp.org/ - 26k The people heading to NH might be better described as Constititionalists This is their party platform www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php - 89k They are very similiar except for immigration and abortion. Typically a true libertarian would favour abortion being available and open immigration but a Constitution party guy would not. Needless to say I am more of a Constitution Party person but either would do. The group going to NH are a great group of heros but they have been superseeded in a sense by the internet. They now realise that they can find one another in their home states and by dedicated organising can achieve far more than their numbers would suggest. Depending on how the war and the economy goes these groups cold have some level of success especially at state level
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PostSubject: Re: The Character of the EU   Sun May 11, 2008 11:57 pm

The EU and Ireland and Trading Blocs and cows - is the European Union protecting the beef market so Ireland can keep its profits up? Cheaper beef and other meats could come from abroad but we hear Padraic Walsh giving the reasons for not importing Brazilian beef as disease-based; this wouldn't be (as?) true when talking about NZ meat yet we protect our markets from cheap imports. Why don't we let them in? Does the EU want to but Ireland has a veto or what? Surely these local EU markets get trampled on by the WTO agreements?
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PostSubject: Re: The Character of the EU   Mon May 12, 2008 12:04 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
The EU and Ireland and Trading Blocs and cows - is the European Union protecting the beef market so Ireland can keep its profits up? Cheaper beef and other meats could come from abroad but we hear Padraic Walsh giving the reasons for not importing Brazilian beef as disease-based; this wouldn't be (as?) true when talking about NZ meat yet we protect our markets from cheap imports. Why don't we let them in? Does the EU want to but Ireland has a veto or what? Surely these local EU markets get trampled on by the WTO agreements?

I may be being over simplistic but I think it is a case of two big trade blocks, the EU and US, battering each other over the head with "moral" and logical arguments while trying to get the best possible market conditions for their goods irrespective of the reasons.
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PostSubject: Re: The Character of the EU   Mon May 12, 2008 12:08 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
The EU and Ireland and Trading Blocs and cows - is the European Union protecting the beef market so Ireland can keep its profits up? Cheaper beef and other meats could come from abroad but we hear Padraic Walsh giving the reasons for not importing Brazilian beef as disease-based; this wouldn't be (as?) true when talking about NZ meat yet we protect our markets from cheap imports. Why don't we let them in? Does the EU want to but Ireland has a veto or what? Surely these local EU markets get trampled on by the WTO agreements?

The EU, courtesy of several strongly agricultural nations, operates to protect EU farmers. The newest way of doing this is classifying foreign imports that compete with CAP-assisted EU ones as in some way substandard. The next wave of this is expected to be stopping such imports on the basis of their not meeting environmental standards. Plus ca change.
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PostSubject: Re: The Character of the EU   Mon May 12, 2008 12:34 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
The EU and Ireland and Trading Blocs and cows - is the European Union protecting the beef market so Ireland can keep its profits up? Cheaper beef and other meats could come from abroad but we hear Padraic Walsh giving the reasons for not importing Brazilian beef as disease-based; this wouldn't be (as?) true when talking about NZ meat yet we protect our markets from cheap imports. Why don't we let them in? Does the EU want to but Ireland has a veto or what? Surely these local EU markets get trampled on by the WTO agreements?

cactus flower wrote:
I may be being over simplistic but I think it is a case of two big trade blocks, the EU and US, battering each other over the head with "moral" and logical arguments while trying to get the best possible market conditions for their goods irrespective of the reasons.
Aren't those two sitting around the table with 100+ other nations? Aren't Brazil, Argentina and New Zealand huge world players now in terms of meat? I'd love to know a bit more about the details of these negotiations and terms etc.

ibis wrote:
The EU, courtesy of several strongly agricultural nations, operates to protect EU farmers. The newest way of doing this is classifying foreign imports that compete with CAP-assisted EU ones as in some way substandard. The next wave of this is expected to be stopping such imports on the basis of their not meeting environmental standards. Plus ca change.
Is the EU farmer lobby so strong that cheap NZ lamb could be kept out? Do we know which countries have the loudest lobbies? France, UK, Ireland I suppose. Surely the Eastern Europeans wouldn't say no to a bit of cheap antipodean lamb? Are these decisions to import or not to import with or without duty covered by vetoes?
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PostSubject: Re: The Character of the EU   Mon May 12, 2008 1:00 am

Do we need a WTO thread? I think it would be well worth having.
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PostSubject: Re: The Character of the EU   Mon May 12, 2008 1:00 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
The EU and Ireland and Trading Blocs and cows - is the European Union protecting the beef market so Ireland can keep its profits up? Cheaper beef and other meats could come from abroad but we hear Padraic Walsh giving the reasons for not importing Brazilian beef as disease-based; this wouldn't be (as?) true when talking about NZ meat yet we protect our markets from cheap imports. Why don't we let them in? Does the EU want to but Ireland has a veto or what? Surely these local EU markets get trampled on by the WTO agreements?

cactus flower wrote:
I may be being over simplistic but I think it is a case of two big trade blocks, the EU and US, battering each other over the head with "moral" and logical arguments while trying to get the best possible market conditions for their goods irrespective of the reasons.
Aren't those two sitting around the table with 100+ other nations? Aren't Brazil, Argentina and New Zealand huge world players now in terms of meat? I'd love to know a bit more about the details of these negotiations and terms etc.

ibis wrote:
The EU, courtesy of several strongly agricultural nations, operates to protect EU farmers. The newest way of doing this is classifying foreign imports that compete with CAP-assisted EU ones as in some way substandard. The next wave of this is expected to be stopping such imports on the basis of their not meeting environmental standards. Plus ca change.
Is the EU farmer lobby so strong that cheap NZ lamb could be kept out? Do we know which countries have the loudest lobbies? France, UK, Ireland I suppose. Surely the Eastern Europeans wouldn't say no to a bit of cheap antipodean lamb? Are these decisions to import or not to import with or without duty covered by vetoes?

France and Ireland are both traditionally protective of their farmers - in both cases farming forms part of their identity. The Easterners...hmm, no, Poland is pretty strongly agricultural (in both senses). The main proponents of CAP reform are Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and the UK - those who would see themselves primarily as industrial, I suppose.
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