Machine Nation

Irish Politics Forum - Politics Technology Economics in Ireland - A Look Under The Nation's Bonnet


Devilish machinations come to naught --Milton
 
PortalPortal  HomeHome  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister  Log in  GalleryGallery  MACHINENATION.org  

Share | 
 

 Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
AuthorMessage
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:25 am

I always understood that Dev began to implement the reforms first, that economic recovery had actually begun by 1959 when Lemass took over. Maybe I'm wrong...
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:44 am

Quote :
A very poor speech by the context of what was needed. It was cliché-driven, forced, awkward and far too long. Speeches are supposed to finish at 8.55 to give two minutes to allow context to be portrayed (adoring crowds, hug from spouse, etc) plus a wrap up by the RTÉ presenter. He didn't shut up until 9pm leading RTÉ to cut from the programme almost the second he stopped talking.

Cowen had an RTÉ producer there giving his timing cues, alongside his own people. It is always done. No-one wants the embarrassment that happened once to Jack Lynch, who went on and on and on so long that at 9.10 RTÉ had to leave the taoiseach while he was still talking, to show the news. RTÉ can tolerate a couple of minutes of an overrun, but there is a limit - Lynch had already thrown their programme schedule out of sync and they had no idea when he was going to shut up, so they pulled the plug. (FF were nuclear with anger.) Since then leaders on all sides time their speeches carefully so that they finish at 8.55 and no later. If they haven't got through it all they dump the rest and finish. (Actually what they do is have the last 2 minutes marked in their script. When it comes to 8.53 they stop whatever they are saying and go to the last page and read, while the teleprompter rushes to catch up. The last page is timed to last exactly 2 minutes.)

So it really beggars belief that Cowen managed to muck up the timing. Did no-one in his team time the run-though? Did they not do a simple word count? (You presume 100 words per minute so if you are delivering a 20 minute speech - starting at 8.35 and finishing at 8.55 - the speech will run to 2000 words, no more and no less.)

If the Taoiseach cannot even deliver a speech and get it right, if the man cannot manage to work out how to get a speech delivered in 20 minutes, is it any wonder so few of us have any belief in his ability lead the country? Delivering a speech should be the easy bit of the job, but he managed to screw that up, and no doubt had people in RTÉ anxiously checking watches and wondering "oh fuck. What do we do if this idiot runs on past 9? Do we pull the plug?" and sending frantic messages "tell him to finish up. We are almost out of time".

and

Quote :
I presume he would have. He would also have an RTE giving him cues as to how he left he had. His professional staff should have been there timing it, deciding if he was running late what to cut, etc. In Dick Spring's time, there was a story of one conference where in the old style teleprompters the text was on paper and while he was standing with the crowd applauding something he had said, the speech was whizzing by at high speed, with he having to pretend that everything was normal while hoping to Christ the whizzing text would stop somewhere before he had to speak again so that he would know what to say next. (It did.)

So his people should have been editing the text if they had to shorten it. He would have been getting time signals to indicate how long left so that he would know whether to speed up or slow down, etc. If necessary he could have jumped to the speech in front of him if no-one was editing the teleprompter. The whole thing was a mess.)

Frankly tonight's ard fheis was so amateurish. Dempsey was appalling and hopeless. Cowen was awkward and rushed, they got the timing of the speech wrong, and then turned DDP's report into a mess by having a strange bunch of staring people stand around him. It was cringe-inducing.


And the erm, content, PK?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:07 am

Katie P wrote:


And the erm, content, PK?

Content matters nothing in a speech. As Demosthenes tells us, all that matters in oratory is, "delivery, delivery and delivery".
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:19 am

Demosthenes is long dead, isn't living through a recession and looking for leadership and answers, answers, answers.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:25 am

Here's the highlight of the Ard Fheis in my book. The quality isn't great but the effect is still hilarious.

Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:35 am

Katie P wrote:
Demosthenes is long dead, isn't living through a recession and looking for leadership and answers, answers, answers.

Not in a speech. Answers can come in policy proposals, platforms, legislation and changes to the structures of politics and economics. Speeches should be used as rhetorical sparks to fire the nation in the direction of accepting and facilitating these decisions.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:40 am

coc wrote:
Here's the highlight of the Ard Fheis in my book. The quality isn't great but the effect is still hilarious.






Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:42 am

What a Face What a Face What a Face clown What a Face What a Face What a Face
What a Face What a Face What a Face What a Face What a Face What a Face
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:47 am

I don't watch TV so I didn't see this, but I recognise John Foley, Cowen's Offaly running mate in the background - with the beard at DDP's left shoulder. And at his right elbow is an Offaly county council first time candidate, if I'm not mistaken.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:11 am

Quote :

Address by An Taoiseach and Uachtarán Fhianna Fáil to the 72nd Ard-Fheis: Part 2

Posted on 28/02/09 by Brian Cowen
Banks


If any market economy is to function properly, and if enterprise is to prosper, we need a fully functioning banking system that works. People need mortgages, business needs credit, and cash must flow again.
There is huge anger and disgust out there at the way some of our bankers behaved. What they did was wrong, it was selfish and it caused a lot of pain and hardship to Irish people. They will not be forgiven easily.
There is little return however, in wasting anger slamming the banks. The Fraud Squad and the Director of Corporate Enforcement will look after that. They have my full support.
What we need to do now is fix the damage they have caused.
In the weeks ahead, I will introduce new standards of banking regulation and new standards of corporate governance, which will restore our reputation and move us to the forefront of best international practice.
Central Banking Commission
I will create a new Central Banking Commission. This will incorporate both the responsibilities of the Central Bank and the supervision and regulatory functions of the Financial Regulator. This will build on best international practice similar to the Canadian model.
And it will provide a seamless powerful organization with independent responsibility.
It will have new powers for ensuring the financial health, stability and supervision of the banking and financial sector.
Within the new Central Banking Commission, we will appoint a new Head of Banking Regulation with an international reputation.
We will create a Financial Services Consumer Agency by merging the existing consumer directorate of the Financial Regulator and the Office of the Financial Services Ombudsman.
There will be radical reform of the system and methods of financial supervision and regulation.
There will be caps on salaries of Bank Chief Executives receiving government aid.
The requirements on banks to support small businesses and enterprise lending and to assist people with mortgage repayment difficulties will be enforced.
The overall effect of this initiative by the government will be to:
- Underpin confidence in our financial system
- To get credit flowing again
- To Enforce more responsible and transparent lending policies
- And ensure a financial sector that acts in the interest of the customer rather than short term gain.
This initiative will mark an end to a sorry chapter in Irish banking history.

What's the FG response to this?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:12 am

Quote :

Address by An Taoiseach and Uachtarán Fhianna Fáil to the 72nd Ard-Fheis: Part 3

Posted on 28/02/09 by Brian Cowen

Public Finance



The second step in our recovery is to sort out our public finances.
I want to make sure tonight that people realize the scale of the challenge we are facing.
This year we budgeted for 55bn euro in spending. The maximum amount we expect to raise from taxes is 37bn euro.
This leaves a gap of 18bn euro in the day to day costs of running our country.
We must close this gap.
We have decided to do this over the next 5 years and we have submitted our targets and proposals for this to the European Commission. And they have accepted them. But now we must achieve those targets.
And the only way to do this is through an appropriate combination of cutting spending and raising taxes.
Public Spending
The fact is, we are now spending too much on the day to day running of the country.
During the good times we could afford it, during the bad times we just can’t. It’s as simple as that.
At the moment, across every department of Government, every item of expenditure is being examined and reviewed. Every programme is being measured for value and those that are not performing or not necessary will be cut.
When we as a Government, ask you the people for taxes, I am aware that you deserve efficiency and best value for money.
So our first priority in this effort, is to get the best possible return for the money that you the taxpayer already provide.
Tax
But having done that, and having achieved the maximum savings possible from the Public purse, the scale of the deficit means, that we also have to raise taxes to close the gap.
Our tax system needs to change.
During the good times, we developed a fairer and more progressive tax system that allowed people to keep more of their own money. Everyone had a better standard of living.
That tax model was based on continuing growth. It works best when we have high employment and a thriving economy.
Unfortunately, we are not a thriving economy for now, and we need to adapt our tax system to fit our new circumstances.
Everyone will need to pay more.
And while no one can be insulated from this reality we will seek to do it in a fair way that is based on ability to pay.
Those that can bear it best will have to bear it most. But all will have to bear some burden; the scale of the challenge is so big.
Through this combination of higher taxes and increased cuts in spending we will restore balance to our public finances by 2013.

Point 2. Response?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:13 am

Point 3

Quote :

We need to protect our native businesses to the greatest extent possible.
That is why, at our next Cabinet meeting we will set up an Enterprise Stabilisation Fund with initial funding of €100m to be run by Enterprise Ireland. The aim of the fund is to support viable but vulnerable exporting companies who, but for this recession, would be thriving.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:06 am

What were those lads beside David Davin Power thinking do ye think ? They were stony serious and silent and looked shocked. Some of their conversations must have been very grave.

Do ye think Cowen told them to hang tough until the locals in 2014? Or were other images going through their heads?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:14 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
What were those lads beside David Davin Power thinking do ye think ? They were stony serious and silent and looked shocked. Some of their conversations must have been very grave.

Do ye think Cowen told them to hang tough until the locals in 2014? Or were other images going through their heads?
What went through their heads went something like this;
"Why the f.ck did RTE ask us to do this and why the absolute f.ck did I agree to do it."
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:18 am

There is nothing new in Cowen's speech, is there? So presumably those issues have been discussed in the Dail. More regulation and more taxation: they seem to be issues that have been coming up over the last few months: someone else will have to speak for FG on this though.

Is it really a good idea to set up yet another regulatory body? Will the old ones be closed down: they are costing a fortune.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:18 am

tonys wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
What were those lads beside David Davin Power thinking do ye think ? They were stony serious and silent and looked shocked. Some of their conversations must have been very grave.

Do ye think Cowen told them to hang tough until the locals in 2014? Or were other images going through their heads?
What went through their heads went something like this;
"Why the f.ck did RTE ask us to do this and why the absolute f.ck did I agree to do it."

I think you might have it there tonys. One lad looks like he is itching to make a break for it.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:17 am

cactus flower wrote:
tonys wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
What were those lads beside David Davin Power thinking do ye think ? They were stony serious and silent and looked shocked. Some of their conversations must have been very grave.

Do ye think Cowen told them to hang tough until the locals in 2014? Or were other images going through their heads?
What went through their heads went something like this;
"Why the f.ck did RTE ask us to do this and why the absolute f.ck did I agree to do it."

I think you might have it there tonys. One lad looks like he is itching to make a break for it.

I doubt if RTÉ had anything to do with it. They hate when party members crowd around presenters like that and do ever so politely suggest that they get lost. The last thing a presenter wants to be thinking of when live on air is 'I hope none of these guys is picking his nose/yawning and that no-one decides to interrupt me if I make a point critical of their party. (Not that DDP is ever likely to say anything critical of FF! He is practically a FF groupie!)
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:10 am

No Papal- take another close look. They seem to be mainly arranged. A bit like a family photo ? Then there are a few at the back trying to squeeze themselves in.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:55 pm

I don't know. It seems impossible to imagine that both RTÉ and FF did not both agree to this (for whatever reason), but apart from giving them all dildos to wave at camera (and one for DDP to talk into) they could not have made both RTÉ and FF look more ridiculous.


Last edited by coc on Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:02 pm

I thought they were looking for answers. The looked lost. They were looking for inspiration.

Maybe they were looking for a new Party - a Tea Party perhaps ?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:19 pm

Just listening to Joe Duffy -

The Star on Sunday yesterday said something like "security was beefed up for the FF Ard Fheis because it's one of the biggest gatherings of criminals in the country" ...

A "black Fianna Fáil" supporter (sounds like an old lady) just came on Joe and said she agreed with it (she's married to a "black Fine Gaeler") - she said the squandering that went on was something desperate (she's from Cork) and that Mary Coughlan and willie o'dea spent too much in China .....

She also said that Cowen was getting a raw deal as did Haughey - the biggest criminal of the lot of them (turns up at the right time, exits at the right time) ....... is Bertie.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:03 pm

I heard her too- she was generally inconsistent though. Dick O' Leary, the chair of the kevin barry cumann was on too and was as black a FF supporter as you'll find.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:24 pm

cactus flower wrote:
No Papal- take another close look. They seem to be mainly arranged. A bit like a family photo ? Then there are a few at the back trying to squeeze themselves in.

If they were 'arranged' it certainly wouldn't be by RTÉ. They absolutely hate gangs of gombeens grouped around a poll corr at conferences. It drives them apeshit. If they were organised it would have had to have been by someone in FF. But surely no-one in the FF press office would have been that dumb?

The 'gang around the journo' is a traditional feature at FF functions, speeches, etc. FFers seem to love doing it. It happens occasionally in Labour and FG too, but they do their best to tell their 'gang' to 'get to hell away from [whoever is speaking]'. But for some reason ganging around someone is a tradition in FF. I remember in the 1980s when Diggy Duignan was doing his piece to camera after an ard fheis, one of the gang didn't just stand behind him but began waving to Mammy during the broadcast. The guy was lucky not to lose a hand when Haughey heard what has happened.

There is no chance of RTÉ arranging it. They would have wanted DDP talking with the backdrop of the hall and dias, not a group of 'thriller' type nutters staring into camera. The trouble with City West though is that there is not much you can do about it if a gang gathers. At least in the RDS Brian Farrell and Diggy would be up on a balcony and so RTÉ could try to control access to the gallery to keep neaderthals gangs away. (They learnt to do it after the 'waving incident'.) The gallery was usually reserved for the media, and stay party members would be ever so politely told to fuck off and leave if they tried climbing up there.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:28 pm

It is amazing the effect the camera has on people. I remember bringing a group of young people to a thing at RTE. Could you get them to stop staring into the camera every time it passed by? Not a chance!
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:28 pm

Katie P wrote:
Point 3

Quote :

We need to protect our native businesses to the greatest extent possible.
That is why, at our next Cabinet meeting we will set up an Enterprise Stabilisation Fund with initial funding of €100m to be run by Enterprise Ireland. The aim of the fund is to support viable but vulnerable exporting companies who, but for this recession, would be thriving.

Like the rest of the speech it was hogwash. It should have been done weeks if not months ago. If it was such a good idea, why wasn't? Or did they cynically hold this 'good' idea for the ard fheis? If they did, and so let companies go to the wall because it was not set up yet they deserve contempt.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?   

Back to top Go down
 
Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis - An Irish Wake?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 4 of 6Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Hi..My name is Linda Irish...I wanted to say I am happy to find your site...
» any Irish sleevers???
» Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68
» Irish Rangers -- and others -- in Hemer
» Gods and Goddesses : Danu

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Machine Nation  :: Welcome and Chat :: Chatter-
Jump to: