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 Possible Good News

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PostSubject: Possible Good News   Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:24 pm

There's a bit of a good news story here from the tribune,
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/feb/15/international-monetary-fund-gives-ireland-the-thum/

It seems to indicate that we might not be dead yet, does anyone know where I can lock it away in case anyone sees it?
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:17 pm

tonys wrote:
There's a bit of a good news story here from the tribune,
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/feb/15/international-monetary-fund-gives-ireland-the-thum/

It seems to indicate that we might not be dead yet, does anyone know where I can lock it away in case anyone sees it?

I have a suggestion... ah, no, sorry, tis too easy and cheap...

I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting the IMF yet, were they? Surely the EU would step in first to protect themselves as well as us. But I can't see it as great news that we haven't turned into early 90s Russia yet, only as moderately unfrightening...
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:27 pm

toxic avenger wrote:
tonys wrote:
There's a bit of a good news story here from the tribune,
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/feb/15/international-monetary-fund-gives-ireland-the-thum/

It seems to indicate that we might not be dead yet, does anyone know where I can lock it away in case anyone sees it?

I have a suggestion... ah, no, sorry, tis too easy and cheap...

I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting the IMF yet, were they? Surely the EU would step in first to protect themselves as well as us. But I can't see it as great news that we haven't turned into early 90s Russia yet, only as moderately unfrightening...

As the IMF is running out of money they may be hesitant... (is this good news too ?)

http://machinenation.forumakers.com/economy-business-and-finance-f8/former-chief-economist-at-the-imf-says-g7-must-save-ireland-t1998.htm#69024
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:36 pm

cactus flower wrote:
toxic avenger wrote:
tonys wrote:
There's a bit of a good news story here from the tribune,
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/feb/15/international-monetary-fund-gives-ireland-the-thum/

It seems to indicate that we might not be dead yet, does anyone know where I can lock it away in case anyone sees it?

I have a suggestion... ah, no, sorry, tis too easy and cheap...

I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting the IMF yet, were they? Surely the EU would step in first to protect themselves as well as us. But I can't see it as great news that we haven't turned into early 90s Russia yet, only as moderately unfrightening...

As the IMF is running out of money they may be hesitant... (is this good news too ?)
No it's not because the're hesitant, it's because they don't think it's necessary. They see the Irish situation as serious but manageable, but that's probably not what you want to hear is it? and that's probably why stories such as this one get ignored on sites like this.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:45 pm

tonys wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
toxic avenger wrote:
tonys wrote:
There's a bit of a good news story here from the tribune,
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/feb/15/international-monetary-fund-gives-ireland-the-thum/

It seems to indicate that we might not be dead yet, does anyone know where I can lock it away in case anyone sees it?

I have a suggestion... ah, no, sorry, tis too easy and cheap...

I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting the IMF yet, were they? Surely the EU would step in first to protect themselves as well as us. But I can't see it as great news that we haven't turned into early 90s Russia yet, only as moderately unfrightening...

As the IMF is running out of money they may be hesitant... (is this good news too ?)
No it's not because the're hesitant, it's because they don't think it's necessary. They see the Irish situation as serious but manageable, but that's probably not what you want to hear is it? and that's probably why stories such as this one get ignored on sites like this.

It hasn't been ignored, tonys, we're posting about it right here and now.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:42 am

cactus flower wrote:
tonys wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
toxic avenger wrote:
tonys wrote:
There's a bit of a good news story here from the tribune,
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/feb/15/international-monetary-fund-gives-ireland-the-thum/

It seems to indicate that we might not be dead yet, does anyone know where I can lock it away in case anyone sees it?

I have a suggestion... ah, no, sorry, tis too easy and cheap...

I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting the IMF yet, were they? Surely the EU would step in first to protect themselves as well as us. But I can't see it as great news that we haven't turned into early 90s Russia yet, only as moderately unfrightening...

As the IMF is running out of money they may be hesitant... (is this good news too ?)
No it's not because the're hesitant, it's because they don't think it's necessary. They see the Irish situation as serious but manageable, but that's probably not what you want to hear is it? and that's probably why stories such as this one get ignored on sites like this.

It hasn't been ignored, tonys, we're posting about it right here and now.
Late in the day and only now because I put it up after waiting to see if anyone else would.
Face it CF, there is a lack of balance & perspective here that needs at least to be acknowledged.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:51 am

Is there also a lack of balance and perspective in the current opinon polls? You are probably unfamiliar with holding a minority view tonys: Fianna Fail is accustomed to a very good match with the population. The opposite would apply in my case. If you are right, and we are going to see everything come good in a short few years, then you will have the pleasure of the last laugh, and you will be back in a majority viewpoint.

I would be very pleased if you could persuade me that Ireland is not in the worst financial position of any EU state and in danger of default.

Back on topic, one thing we do have is a good, new housing stock Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:55 am

tonys wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
tonys wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
toxic avenger wrote:
tonys wrote:
There's a bit of a good news story here from the tribune,
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/feb/15/international-monetary-fund-gives-ireland-the-thum/

It seems to indicate that we might not be dead yet, does anyone know where I can lock it away in case anyone sees it?

I have a suggestion... ah, no, sorry, tis too easy and cheap...

I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting the IMF yet, were they? Surely the EU would step in first to protect themselves as well as us. But I can't see it as great news that we haven't turned into early 90s Russia yet, only as moderately unfrightening...

As the IMF is running out of money they may be hesitant... (is this good news too ?)
No it's not because the're hesitant, it's because they don't think it's necessary. They see the Irish situation as serious but manageable, but that's probably not what you want to hear is it? and that's probably why stories such as this one get ignored on sites like this.

It hasn't been ignored, tonys, we're posting about it right here and now.
Late in the day and only now because I put it up after waiting to see if anyone else would.
Face it CF, there is a lack of balance & perspective here that needs at least to be acknowledged.

No! You lies, Tonys, you lie!!!

This is the most balencedst and bestest most perspectivised place in the whole wide world!
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:55 am

Did you see Michael Clifford's article in the Tribune as well on Ireland v. Iceland ? Here's a quote for you to enjoy...

~~~~~~~~~

Their efforts drove the prime minister from office and prompted the resignation of the financial services authority. Now, they have set their sights on the man many see as the architect of Iceland's descent into bankruptcy, David Oddsson. He is a former prime minister who implemented neo-liberal policies and then moved on to police the policies with the lightest of touches. It would be akin to having Bertie Ahern as the financial regulator during these turbulent times.

"This country was run for decades by a minority who have become very rich by fooling the majority," says Horour Torfason, one of the main organisers of the protest. The people are claiming their country back, but the question hanging in the cold, clear air is whether or not it is too late.

The comparison between Ireland and Iceland is growing tiresome. British media types love to trot out the line that the only difference between the pair is one letter and six months. In November, the International Monetary Fund was called into Iceland. The Brits and our own harbingers of doom predict that we're next on the list. Last week, the Economist ran a piece on Ireland's woes headlined 'Reykjavik on Liffey'.
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/feb/15/iceland-melts-down-under-unfriendly-fire/


Juat because the IMF say this that or the other means little because we're in the Eurozone and are a problem for the central Eurozone countries. We'll end up borrowing from the ECB to pull us through - do you think they'll have better or worse demands than the IMF ?
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:56 am

tonys wrote:
... Face it CF, there is a lack of balance & perspective here that needs at least to be acknowledged.
Huh? Not only is MN outstanding for balance and perspective, it is outstanding for tolerance, as tonys's presence attests. Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:18 am

cactus flower wrote:
Is there also a lack of balance and perspective in the current opinon polls? You are probably unfamiliar with holding a minority view tonys: On web sites? you are joking now, aren't ya. I spent my time on P.ie batting off piss heads from morning to night.

Fianna Fail is accustomed to a very good match with the population. The opposite would apply in my case. you are getting close to the truth there, if you could extend that line of thought to the point where you understand why you feel good about that change, then you should be able to see why you have lost perspective.

If you are right, and we are going to see everything come good in a short few years, then you will have the pleasure of the last laugh, and you will be back in a majority viewpoint.

I would be very pleased if you could persuade me that Ireland is not in the worst financial position of any EU state and in danger of default. If you looked at all you would see that Ireland is not by any means the worst placed state in the EU, our debt to GDP is still one of the best around and there is no danger of a default once we act to correct our public spending, which we are doing, even the IMF agree that is the case. There's no evidence at all that we are on the point of default, but you have decided to believe that anyway. I don't need to persuade you of anything, you need to think it through yourself.

Back on topic, one thing we do have is a good, new housing stock Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:20 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
We'll end up borrowing from the ECB to pull us through - do you think they'll have better or worse demands than the IMF ?
That may well depend on how badly they want Lisbon passed. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:22 am

soubresauts wrote:
tonys wrote:
... Face it CF, there is a lack of balance & perspective here that needs at least to be acknowledged.
Huh? Not only is MN outstanding for balance and perspective, it is outstanding for tolerance, as tonys's presence attests. Twisted Evil
You appear to be a lady, so I'll say nothing
In future I'd appreciate it if you'd do me the same honour.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:28 am

Quote :
Fianna Fail is accustomed to a very good match with the population. The opposite would apply in my case. you are getting close to the truth there, if you could extend that line of thought to the point where you understand why you feel good about that change, then you should be able to see why you have lost perspective.

Startling insight tonys: ESP or just old-fashioned mind reading?
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:35 am

tonys wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
tonys wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
toxic avenger wrote:
tonys wrote:
There's a bit of a good news story here from the tribune,
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/feb/15/international-monetary-fund-gives-ireland-the-thum/

It seems to indicate that we might not be dead yet, does anyone know where I can lock it away in case anyone sees it?

I have a suggestion... ah, no, sorry, tis too easy and cheap...

I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting the IMF yet, were they? Surely the EU would step in first to protect themselves as well as us. But I can't see it as great news that we haven't turned into early 90s Russia yet, only as moderately unfrightening...

As the IMF is running out of money they may be hesitant... (is this good news too ?)
No it's not because the're hesitant, it's because they don't think it's necessary. They see the Irish situation as serious but manageable, but that's probably not what you want to hear is it? and that's probably why stories such as this one get ignored on sites like this.

It hasn't been ignored, tonys, we're posting about it right here and now.
Late in the day and only now because I put it up after waiting to see if anyone else would.
Face it CF, there is a lack of balance & perspective here that needs at least to be acknowledged.


I also saw that article referenced on the front page of the Trib and was wondering if it would show up on the other IMF thread. It was a while before you got a response here tonys. I waited to see if anyone else would post it too - maybe one or other of us should have done so earlier.

In any case, the response is interesting; typical, but interesting nontheless for being that.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:19 am

I hate to be a party pooper. But c'est la vie.

If the IMF had a clue about what is and what isn't the case with regard to the meltdown of capitalism, they'd have said something about it years ago, when it was obvious that the collapse was fast approaching. Indeed, the IMF can be tied in as one of the causes of it. I'm trying to think of a single nation that the IMF has sunken its claws into, that's considered to now be a financially strong country and I cannot think of one.

Look at all the third world countries. We've yet to really hear anything about them regarding this crisis, other than the odd soundbyte or two, telling us that they're going to be the worst hit. What they don't say is that a lot of the stuff we consume: food, petrolium products, luxuries, medicinal ingredients and the labour that produces them, comes from these areas. We have a massive bootstrapping operation going on with regard to this meltdown and everyone seems to be afraid to see it. Like pretending it doesn't exist will make it so. Don't look under the bed!!!

The best that'll come of this prediction from the entrails of the chickens that these idiots have gutted, is that there'll be some very short term confidence in the markets. Folks will invest more in the markets and in the slightly longer short term, it will hasten the demise of same.

This whole mess has barely started, so forgive me if I don't put too much stock in the opinions of the idiots who caused it and who still don't have a clue as to what it is that's staring them straight in the face.

The only positive aspect I can point to is the death of scumbags like the IMF. I'll be putting aside a bottle of bubbly (bubbly cider that it) to toast to that one.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:35 am

Kate P wrote:
tonys wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
tonys wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
toxic avenger wrote:
tonys wrote:
There's a bit of a good news story here from the tribune,
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/feb/15/international-monetary-fund-gives-ireland-the-thum/

It seems to indicate that we might not be dead yet, does anyone know where I can lock it away in case anyone sees it?

I have a suggestion... ah, no, sorry, tis too easy and cheap...

I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting the IMF yet, were they? Surely the EU would step in first to protect themselves as well as us. But I can't see it as great news that we haven't turned into early 90s Russia yet, only as moderately unfrightening...

As the IMF is running out of money they may be hesitant... (is this good news too ?)
No it's not because the're hesitant, it's because they don't think it's necessary. They see the Irish situation as serious but manageable, but that's probably not what you want to hear is it? and that's probably why stories such as this one get ignored on sites like this.

It hasn't been ignored, tonys, we're posting about it right here and now.
Late in the day and only now because I put it up after waiting to see if anyone else would.
Face it CF, there is a lack of balance & perspective here that needs at least to be acknowledged.


I also saw that article referenced on the front page of the Trib and was wondering if it would show up on the other IMF thread. It was a while before you got a response here tonys. I waited to see if anyone else would post it too - maybe one or other of us should have done so earlier.

In any case, the response is interesting; typical, but interesting nontheless for being that.

If you hang back from posting your views, then it is a little odd to complain about them not being represented.

Hermes has put it well, neither the IMF, not the lads at Davos last week, have a clue what to do about the situation and they are in a state of the horrors. One half of the EU is going for inflation and the other for deflation: there is no indication that either will work. The IMF advised Iceland to nationalise their banks just over 10 years ago. A couple of weeks ago they brought out a report saying that all of Iceland's problems started with the privatisation of the banks.

If Ireland has to go begging for funding, either to the IMF or ECB, there will be a loss of sovereignty that will make anything in the Lisbon Treaty look inconsequential. It is not really a matter for point scoring.


Last edited by cactus flower on Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:36 am

Hermes wrote:
I hate to be a party pooper. But c'est la vie.

If the IMF had a clue about what is and what isn't the case with regard to the meltdown of capitalism, they'd have said something about it years ago, when it was obvious that the collapse was fast approaching. Indeed, the IMF can be tied in as one of the causes of it. I'm trying to think of a single nation that the IMF has sunken its claws into, that's considered to now be a financially strong country and I cannot think of one.

Look at all the third world countries. We've yet to really hear anything about them regarding this crisis, other than the odd soundbyte or two, telling us that they're going to be the worst hit. What they don't say is that a lot of the stuff we consume: food, petrolium products, luxuries, medicinal ingredients and the labour that produces them, comes from these areas. We have a massive bootstrapping operation going on with regard to this meltdown and everyone seems to be afraid to see it. Like pretending it doesn't exist will make it so. Don't look under the bed!!!

The best that'll come of this prediction from the entrails of the chickens that these idiots have gutted, is that there'll be some very short term confidence in the markets. Folks will invest more in the markets and in the slightly longer short term, it will hasten the demise of same.

This whole mess has barely started, so forgive me if I don't put too much stock in the opinions of the idiots who caused it and who still don't have a clue as to what it is that's staring them straight in the face.

The only positive aspect I can point to is the death of scumbags like the IMF. I'll be putting aside a bottle of bubbly (bubbly cider that it) to toast to that one.
You think the IMF are idiots, fair enough, there are many like you it seems, just one question you might be able to help me with, because I canít figure it out for the life of me.
Why do the people who pay no attention to the IMF and what they do hear, they donít believe, pay a remarkable amount of respect to and put great store in, what is said by a variety of knucklescrapers, headbangers & unattached loons who like to talk to videocams and post their unbounded wisdom up on youtube.
I just donít get it.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:45 am

cactus flower wrote:
Kate P wrote:
tonys wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
tonys wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
toxic avenger wrote:
tonys wrote:
There's a bit of a good news story here from the tribune,
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/feb/15/international-monetary-fund-gives-ireland-the-thum/

It seems to indicate that we might not be dead yet, does anyone know where I can lock it away in case anyone sees it?

I have a suggestion... ah, no, sorry, tis too easy and cheap...

I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting the IMF yet, were they? Surely the EU would step in first to protect themselves as well as us. But I can't see it as great news that we haven't turned into early 90s Russia yet, only as moderately unfrightening...

As the IMF is running out of money they may be hesitant... (is this good news too ?)
No it's not because the're hesitant, it's because they don't think it's necessary. They see the Irish situation as serious but manageable, but that's probably not what you want to hear is it? and that's probably why stories such as this one get ignored on sites like this.

It hasn't been ignored, tonys, we're posting about it right here and now.
Late in the day and only now because I put it up after waiting to see if anyone else would.
Face it CF, there is a lack of balance & perspective here that needs at least to be acknowledged.


I also saw that article referenced on the front page of the Trib and was wondering if it would show up on the other IMF thread. It was a while before you got a response here tonys. I waited to see if anyone else would post it too - maybe one or other of us should have done so earlier.

In any case, the response is interesting; typical, but interesting nontheless for being that.

If you hang back from posting your views, then it is a little odd to complain about them not being represented.
Not odd at all. It is far more interesting & informative, to me at least, to watch who posts what and how they present it and to see what sort of stories or posts get ignored or get an aggressive reaction.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:47 am

tonys wrote:
Hermes wrote:
I hate to be a party pooper. But c'est la vie.

If the IMF had a clue about what is and what isn't the case with regard to the meltdown of capitalism, they'd have said something about it years ago, when it was obvious that the collapse was fast approaching. Indeed, the IMF can be tied in as one of the causes of it. I'm trying to think of a single nation that the IMF has sunken its claws into, that's considered to now be a financially strong country and I cannot think of one.

Look at all the third world countries. We've yet to really hear anything about them regarding this crisis, other than the odd soundbyte or two, telling us that they're going to be the worst hit. What they don't say is that a lot of the stuff we consume: food, petrolium products, luxuries, medicinal ingredients and the labour that produces them, comes from these areas. We have a massive bootstrapping operation going on with regard to this meltdown and everyone seems to be afraid to see it. Like pretending it doesn't exist will make it so. Don't look under the bed!!!

The best that'll come of this prediction from the entrails of the chickens that these idiots have gutted, is that there'll be some very short term confidence in the markets. Folks will invest more in the markets and in the slightly longer short term, it will hasten the demise of same.

This whole mess has barely started, so forgive me if I don't put too much stock in the opinions of the idiots who caused it and who still don't have a clue as to what it is that's staring them straight in the face.

The only positive aspect I can point to is the death of scumbags like the IMF. I'll be putting aside a bottle of bubbly (bubbly cider that it) to toast to that one.
You think the IMF are idiots, fair enough, there are many like you it seems, just one question you might be able to help me with, because I canít figure it out for the life of me.
Why do the people who pay no attention to the IMF and what they do hear, they donít believe, pay a remarkable amount of respect to and put great store in, what is said by a variety of knucklescrapers, headbangers & unattached loons who like to talk to videocams and post their unbounded wisdom up on youtube.
I just donít get it.

The funny thing is that quite a few of the knucklefaced loons have got closer to predicting outcomes than the besuited and overpaid "financial experts" of the IMF and national governments. Others of them are just examples of the headbanger/loon species. You watches your youtube and you takes your pick.

Far from paying no attention to the IMF, the people you refer to have studied that august institution in detail, particularly through the work of Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel prizewinning economist and former economist with the IMF and have looked carefully at its track record in reviving failed economies. Not a pretty sight.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:50 am

tonys wrote:
Hermes wrote:
I hate to be a party pooper. But c'est la vie.

If the IMF had a clue about what is and what isn't the case with regard to the meltdown of capitalism, they'd have said something about it years ago, when it was obvious that the collapse was fast approaching. Indeed, the IMF can be tied in as one of the causes of it. I'm trying to think of a single nation that the IMF has sunken its claws into, that's considered to now be a financially strong country and I cannot think of one.

Look at all the third world countries. We've yet to really hear anything about them regarding this crisis, other than the odd soundbyte or two, telling us that they're going to be the worst hit. What they don't say is that a lot of the stuff we consume: food, petrolium products, luxuries, medicinal ingredients and the labour that produces them, comes from these areas. We have a massive bootstrapping operation going on with regard to this meltdown and everyone seems to be afraid to see it. Like pretending it doesn't exist will make it so. Don't look under the bed!!!

The best that'll come of this prediction from the entrails of the chickens that these idiots have gutted, is that there'll be some very short term confidence in the markets. Folks will invest more in the markets and in the slightly longer short term, it will hasten the demise of same.

This whole mess has barely started, so forgive me if I don't put too much stock in the opinions of the idiots who caused it and who still don't have a clue as to what it is that's staring them straight in the face.

The only positive aspect I can point to is the death of scumbags like the IMF. I'll be putting aside a bottle of bubbly (bubbly cider that it) to toast to that one.
You think the IMF are idiots, fair enough, there are many like you it seems, just one question you might be able to help me with, because I canít figure it out for the life of me.
Why do the people who pay no attention to the IMF and what they do hear, they donít believe, pay a remarkable amount of respect to and put great store in, what is said by a variety of knucklescrapers, headbangers & unattached loons who like to talk to videocams and post their unbounded wisdom up on youtube.
I just donít get it.

I'm afraid that the only knuckledragger that I can answer for is myself Tonys. I've written a fair amount about the IMF and others like them over the years. In truth, I'd never be accused of hanging on to their every word, but I do listen. In the main I listen so that I can point to the bull they speak, not very noble, I know, but I can only play with the resources I have. Much more important than listening to them, I believe, is to observe them. Often the difference between what is said and predicted and what actually happens, is immense. Like the present meltdown for example.

With regard to knuckledraggers in general, they show themselves for what they are and let the buyer beware. The truism to be seen here is that they inhabit all sides of the political and financial divides. I'd claim, as another example, that there are many such persons with calloused knuckles, within the IMF and that one of them has put out this present lullaby. Of course this particular Silverback wouldn't condescend to put his fable onto youtube. It should receive no more respect nontheless. Analysis is better than blind faith when dealing with any such information.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:55 am

tonys wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
Kate P wrote:
tonys wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
tonys wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
toxic avenger wrote:
tonys wrote:
There's a bit of a good news story here from the tribune,
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/feb/15/international-monetary-fund-gives-ireland-the-thum/

It seems to indicate that we might not be dead yet, does anyone know where I can lock it away in case anyone sees it?

I have a suggestion... ah, no, sorry, tis too easy and cheap...

I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting the IMF yet, were they? Surely the EU would step in first to protect themselves as well as us. But I can't see it as great news that we haven't turned into early 90s Russia yet, only as moderately unfrightening...

As the IMF is running out of money they may be hesitant... (is this good news too ?)
No it's not because the're hesitant, it's because they don't think it's necessary. They see the Irish situation as serious but manageable, but that's probably not what you want to hear is it? and that's probably why stories such as this one get ignored on sites like this.

It hasn't been ignored, tonys, we're posting about it right here and now.
Late in the day and only now because I put it up after waiting to see if anyone else would.
Face it CF, there is a lack of balance & perspective here that needs at least to be acknowledged.


I also saw that article referenced on the front page of the Trib and was wondering if it would show up on the other IMF thread. It was a while before you got a response here tonys. I waited to see if anyone else would post it too - maybe one or other of us should have done so earlier.

In any case, the response is interesting; typical, but interesting nontheless for being that.

If you hang back from posting your views, then it is a little odd to complain about them not being represented.
Not odd at all. It is far more interesting & informative, to me at least, to watch who posts what and how they present it and to see what sort of stories or posts get ignored or get an aggressive reaction.

It was Kate P I was referring to, not you tonys. You posted the article, and then complained. That's fair enough. You have to admit though, it is not very substantial - a two sentence quote from the IMF. What else were they going to say when they were asked? Btw - I think the other article got it wrong - we have already raised 20 billion for this year on the bonds market.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:04 am

Hermes wrote:
tonys wrote:
Hermes wrote:
I hate to be a party pooper. But c'est la vie.

If the IMF had a clue about what is and what isn't the case with regard to the meltdown of capitalism, they'd have said something about it years ago, when it was obvious that the collapse was fast approaching. Indeed, the IMF can be tied in as one of the causes of it. I'm trying to think of a single nation that the IMF has sunken its claws into, that's considered to now be a financially strong country and I cannot think of one.

Look at all the third world countries. We've yet to really hear anything about them regarding this crisis, other than the odd soundbyte or two, telling us that they're going to be the worst hit. What they don't say is that a lot of the stuff we consume: food, petrolium products, luxuries, medicinal ingredients and the labour that produces them, comes from these areas. We have a massive bootstrapping operation going on with regard to this meltdown and everyone seems to be afraid to see it. Like pretending it doesn't exist will make it so. Don't look under the bed!!!

The best that'll come of this prediction from the entrails of the chickens that these idiots have gutted, is that there'll be some very short term confidence in the markets. Folks will invest more in the markets and in the slightly longer short term, it will hasten the demise of same.

This whole mess has barely started, so forgive me if I don't put too much stock in the opinions of the idiots who caused it and who still don't have a clue as to what it is that's staring them straight in the face.

The only positive aspect I can point to is the death of scumbags like the IMF. I'll be putting aside a bottle of bubbly (bubbly cider that it) to toast to that one.
You think the IMF are idiots, fair enough, there are many like you it seems, just one question you might be able to help me with, because I canít figure it out for the life of me.
Why do the people who pay no attention to the IMF and what they do hear, they donít believe, pay a remarkable amount of respect to and put great store in, what is said by a variety of knucklescrapers, headbangers & unattached loons who like to talk to videocams and post their unbounded wisdom up on youtube.
I just donít get it.

I'm afraid that the only knuckledragger that I can answer for is myself Tonys. I've written a fair amount about the IMF and others like them over the years. In truth, I'd never be accused of hanging on to their every word, but I do listen. In the main I listen so that I can point to the bull they speak, not very noble, I know, but I can only play with the resources I have. Much more important than listening to them, I believe, is to observe them. Often the difference between what is said and predicted and what actually happens, is immense. Like the present meltdown for example.

With regard to knuckledraggers in general, they show themselves for what they are and let the buyer beware. The truism to be seen here is that they inhabit all sides of the political and financial divides. I'd claim, as another example, that there are many such persons with calloused knuckles, within the IMF and that one of them has put out this present lullaby. Of course this particular Silverback wouldn't condescend to put his fable onto youtube. It should receive no more respect nontheless. Analysis is better than blind faith when dealing with any such information.
We might be at cross purposes here regarding the IMF, what their view is of Ireland's situation is not the important point as I see it. What is important is the fact that they are not standing outside our door waiting to barge in to rescue us from ourselves as some would have us believe is in fact the case.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:15 am

Tonys wrote:
We might be at cross purposes here regarding the IMF, what their view is of Ireland's situation is not the important point as I see it. What is important is the fact that they are not standing outside our door waiting to barge in to rescue us from ourselves as some would have us believe is in fact the case.

You may well be right Tonys. But I think we're still indulging in the 'what if' game to a degree. The IMF, eventhough I've described them as idiots, are far from being cretins. They've got a feral sense of things. And are extremely dangerous. Indeed we're now dealing with a wounded feral beast.

Being the cynic that I am I cannot but help ask myself: if they know that they're talking crap, then what purpose could it serve? The answer to that question was supplied by Mr Cowen. When it was attributed to him that he said we'd soon be calling on the IMF, it immediately began to panic the markets. So, say the opposite, and you potentially calm the markets. The IMF needs stability, or at least a braking of the descent. Or else its value becomes as a lead weight around its neck. The only thing worse off than a man with nothing, is his creditor.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Good News   Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:42 am

Pat McCardle on Morning Ireland this morning discussing the IMF 'Good News' with Emma McNamara. McCardle thinks it will be very difficult to bridge that 10% deficit but that it can be done ... It turns out that Simon Johnson Former IMF economic advisor was of the opinion that Brian Cowen was the one who mentioned the IMF first and that the blanket bank guarantee was potentially destabilising to the Euro. Why the F* isn't this dude on doomtube man - he'd make a great doomer!

http://www.rgemonitor.com/euro-monitor/255132/ireland_and_an_unstable_europe_again

This is the fuc*er who also recently said the G7 needs to bailout the Irish nation - see other thread on same.

But we should instead listen to the scant information presented in the Tribune yesterday - Ireland has better National Debt to GDP ration than Iceland - 50% as opposed to 600%. What a relief.

Language inspired by walstreetpro whose videos are being banned from youtube for telling the truth about where all the money is going.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dUMdCfU2jU


edit


http://www.ntma.ie/NationalDebt/levelOfDebt.php

silent
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