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 Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?

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PostSubject: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:05 pm

Anyone hear anything or get any news ?

Quote :
Protest prevents Ahern from speaking in Galway
03/02/2009 - 07:53:09

An event being attended by former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern had to be cancelled last night after student protestors engaged in scuffles with the Gardaí.

Mr Ahern was due to speak at the Literary and Debating Society of NUI Galway.

However, around 50 students protesting against the possible reintroduction of third-level fees staged a sit-down protest at the entrance to the college and blocked Mr Ahern's entrance to the event.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaking/ireland/mhsnqleykfmh/


http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=xyEqBrrx1Kc


Last edited by Auditor #9 on Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:23 pm

They drew batons? Fair dues to the Gardaí. That f*cker has had a hiding coming to him for quite some time now. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:26 pm

Laughing

.... if only.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:30 pm

If you're available, come join the protest against the possible re-introduction of tuition fees for third level which is due to take place outside Leinster House tomorrow at 1. Just join the crowd coming out of Trinity at a quarter past 12 and oppose this potential travesty.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:33 pm

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
If you're available, come join the protest against the possible re-introduction of tuition fees for third level which is due to take place outside Leinster House tomorrow at 1. Just join the crowd coming out of Trinity at a quarter past 12 and oppose this potential travesty.
Bring a helmet in case the skull-crackers are on the LOOSE!!
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:42 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
If you're available, come join the protest against the possible re-introduction of tuition fees for third level which is due to take place outside Leinster House tomorrow at 1. Just join the crowd coming out of Trinity at a quarter past 12 and oppose this potential travesty.
Bring a helmet in case the skull-crackers are on the LOOSE!!

I'm a well-behaved protestor, so I will be fine. If push comes to shove(literally) I will use my placard as a shield and my pen as a sword.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:46 pm

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
If you're available, come join the protest against the possible re-introduction of tuition fees for third level which is due to take place outside Leinster House tomorrow at 1. Just join the crowd coming out of Trinity at a quarter past 12 and oppose this potential travesty.
Bring a helmet in case the skull-crackers are on the LOOSE!!

I'm a well-behaved protestor, so I will be fine. If push comes to shove(literally) I will use my placard as a shield and my pen as a sword.

To the blogs!

I think fees should have been reintroduced a few years back but doing so at the moment would be a huge mistake, I support thee! I shall be down the Docklands with some alcohol wipes and plastic stitches should you need them.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:49 pm

cookiemonster wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
If you're available, come join the protest against the possible re-introduction of tuition fees for third level which is due to take place outside Leinster House tomorrow at 1. Just join the crowd coming out of Trinity at a quarter past 12 and oppose this potential travesty.
Bring a helmet in case the skull-crackers are on the LOOSE!!

I'm a well-behaved protestor, so I will be fine. If push comes to shove(literally) I will use my placard as a shield and my pen as a sword.

To the blogs!

Exactimundo cookie.

Quote :
I think fees should have been reintroduced a few years back but doing so at the moment would be a huge mistake, I support thee! I shall be down the Docklands with some alcohol wipes and plastic stitches should you need them.

They would've had an easier time of it then, the Government had more support, the economy was in boom and it would've been more saleable. Now that the economy is contracting by 4%, the government's popularity is well short of 50% and they've lost a couple of TDanna, they do not have the political capital to do so. Re-introducing fees in 2013 wouldn't be too bad though. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:57 pm

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
Re-introducing fees in 2013 wouldn't be too bad though. Smile

While it was fun and interesting while it lasted I woudn't do it again. That said, not much has changed since I left college, I'm still poor, traipsing about the city on foot, drinking during the week and always cold and hungry. I'm better dressed now though since I have exchanged a classroom for an office (and a nice one too).
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:01 am

cookiemonster wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
Re-introducing fees in 2013 wouldn't be too bad though. Smile

While it was fun and interesting while it lasted I woudn't do it again. That said, not much has changed since I left college, I'm still poor, traipsing about the city on foot, drinking during the week and always cold and hungry. I'm better dressed now though since I have exchanged a classroom for an office (and a nice one too).

Well you're living more frugally so you're saving money cookie! Which college did you go to btw?
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:05 am

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
cookiemonster wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
Re-introducing fees in 2013 wouldn't be too bad though. Smile

While it was fun and interesting while it lasted I woudn't do it again. That said, not much has changed since I left college, I'm still poor, traipsing about the city on foot, drinking during the week and always cold and hungry. I'm better dressed now though since I have exchanged a classroom for an office (and a nice one too).

Well you're living more frugally so you're saving money cookie! Which college did you go to btw?

*yoink*
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:29 pm

Interesting criticism of this development at cearta.ie: http://www.cearta.ie/2009/02/hecklers-must-not-have-a-veto/
Quote :
...this was a failure on the part of the Lit & Deb to protect the process of freedom of speech.

Personally, I think it's abhorrent that a speech by a public figure can be disrupted and ultimately cancelled by such immature and brutish behaviour. Feck the batons, Bertie should have used his crutch.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:35 pm

I agree, no person who is invited to speak at a university society should be prevented from doing so on the basis of people disagreeing with what they say. It is entirely at odds with what a university should promote. I remember being in quite a few situations during my undergraduate days when invited speakers were completely stopped from speaking. Not only does it spoil it for those who wish to listen, it erodes the values of a university and places the organisers in a difficult position. There is always time at these events for people to air their opinion to invited speakers in a proper manner.

That said, there is a way of organising events which involve controversial speakers and if organised properly it should be possible to resist these sorts of protests.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:08 pm

johnfás wrote:
I agree, no person who is invited to speak at a university society should be prevented from doing so on the basis of people disagreeing with what they say. It is entirely at odds with what a university should promote. I remember being in quite a few situations during my undergraduate days when invited speakers were completely stopped from speaking. Not only does it spoil it for those who wish to listen, it erodes the values of a university and places the organisers in a difficult position. There is always time at these events for people to air their opinion to invited speakers in a proper manner.

That said, there is a way of organising events which involve controversial speakers and if organised properly it should be possible to resist these sorts of protests.

Agreed johnfás, if you have a problem with one of the speakers invited, you can raise it in the Q and A which is part and parcel with any public interview in college. That is a proper way to air grievances, rather than eroding freedom of speech by preventing a person entering.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:23 pm

I think the students should try to look less like a gang of gigglers, crusties and mouthy whiners. There was one placard with something like "Ask me to pay fees - The cheek". Talk about shooting yourself in your big arrogant selfish foot. I suggest that they ask people to dress soberly and look miserable.

I worked during college and I feel sorry for those who find it hard to make ends meet. However, for those who can afford it, it is one of the most valuable investments you can make and is something that a citizen should be happy to pay for. €15K paid back over the first 10 years of your working life would sound fair to me.

The problem at the moment is that part time jobs are not as easy to come by for students and people cannot get loans for the most basic things. Introducing fees now would be more damaging than at any other time. The problem is that we're out of money. A Government loan to students is the only solution I can see. FI you don't earn the bread over the next 10 years then the loan could be forgiven. If you do earn the bread then you should pay.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:38 pm

Good old income tax could deal with all of that.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:50 pm

cactus flower wrote:
Good old income tax could deal with all of that.

Income tax is paid by everybody including those who have not been provided with a free college education and those who could not afford to go to college. Surely it would be more equitable to get the money back from those who get a benefit from going to college?

If (very hypothetically) I were told that I could either have no college education or pay 1% of my income to the state for the rest of my life then I know which option I would take.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:19 pm

Zhou_Enlai wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
Good old income tax could deal with all of that.

Income tax is paid by everybody including those who have not been provided with a free college education and those who could not afford to go to college. Surely it would be more equitable to get the money back from those who get a benefit from going to college?

Well then maybe paying for the system via income tax would provide an incentive for people to go to college, since they've already paid for it. It's the difference between subsidizing a service for someone else and not availing of it and availing of a service that is in fact being subsidized by someone else.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:03 pm

Zhou_Enlai wrote:
...
I worked during college and I feel sorry for those who find it hard to make ends meet. However, for those who can afford it, it is one of the most valuable investments you can make and is something that a citizen should be happy to pay for. €15K paid back over the first 10 years of your working life would sound fair to me. ...
That's a fairly narrow view of the benefits of education there. The implication appears to be that only those receiving the education benefit and that they are unfairly subisidised in this by everyone, including those who do not choose or are unable to choose such an education. I think this overlooks the broader societal benefits of education. Does anyone really believe that educating someone to be an engineer or a doctor (or a poet) benefits only that person?

I think my point is supported by the constitutional guarantee to free primary education and also by Donogh O'Malley's introduction of free secondary education - education benefits the whole society and ought to be paid for as of right by the State. In my book, that ought to apply to third level, fourth level & special needs education also.

A loan to be paid back is just an incentive to emigrate.

The issue of making those who can afford it pay ought rightly be dealt with via the income tax system (as cactus flower has said).
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:44 am

Education is not paid by the state but by tax payer's hard earned money. The Irish people will have to decide if what was once one of the most cherished objectives of the Irish parents, that is education of their children, should now become a commodity decided by market forces. At one time education in this country was denied due to poverty and priviledge. People begged, borrowed and stole to educate themselves and their children in this society not so long ago. It seems the more things change, the more they stay the same. Investment in knowledge and education was hard fought for in this country. Personally, I think it would be a tragedy to mortgage our future so that bankers can make a better profit, and we also, by default, teach our children that debt is a road to success. Talent and hard work, not profit, should prevail. Our entire society will profit from the foresight and the lessons of struggles fought not so long ago.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:28 am

Zhou_Enlai wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
Good old income tax could deal with all of that.

Income tax is paid by everybody including those who have not been provided with a free college education and those who could not afford to go to college. Surely it would be more equitable to get the money back from those who get a benefit from going to college?

If (very hypothetically) I were told that I could either have no college education or pay 1% of my income to the state for the rest of my life then I know which option I would take.

Everyone benefits from having an educated population and workforce.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:27 am

I can think of no reason why the taxpayers who cannot afford to send their children to third level should subsidise those who can, so if third level were to be funded by taxation, it should only be applied to taxpayers while they have children in the system, say .5% up to 50,000 p.a. and rising to 4 or 5% at 150,000 +, the tax would have to remain the same regardless of how many children the taxpayer had in the system at any one time. Not sure how much that would raise, probably only 50 million or so, but it would be 50 million the taxpayers who do not use the system would not have to pay, some degree of fairness in that at least.

While I was at it I would stop the government payment for teachers in private second level schools, if parents want the privilege that brings, let them pay extra for it, another 100 million would be saved there.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:18 am

I can not think of any reason why our children should be segerated by their parent's wealth - poor or rich. We should cherish the abilities of all children and not auction their abilities by the purses of their parents. We want this country to succeed and it is, in the end, the success of our children's ability to access any level of educations according to their abilitlites and wants, that should be the only concern of the nation. Cut the lip service and deliver on what our parents and grandparents strived so hard for. Our success, as a society, is not measured by mere wealth but by the ability for us to provide greater opportunity for those who come after us.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:06 am

I can’t speak for everyone, but I do want this country to succeed, at the same time I do not want one half to succeed on the backs of the other half, even if that is only to a small extent. Third level is still dominated by students from what might be loosely called middle class backgrounds, participation by students of working class backgrounds has improved, but not by much and not by as much as the number of places available has improved. The taxes of all workers go to pay for third level education, yet the better off benefit disproportionately from the service. In my opinion this is neither equitable nor desirable and should not be allowed to continue, user pays, at least to some small extent, would be a better way to go, with the savings going into primary level where at least all participate and on an equal footing.
As for lip service, I don’t know where that came from and I don’t have to answer for whatever goes on in your head. I’m not interested in what you think of me or my politics, get over wherever you think I’m coming from and just address the issue at hand.
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PostSubject: Re: Protest in NUIG (UCG) yesterday - Bertie Ahern wasn't allowed speak - Gardai drew batons?   Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:15 am

Mea cupla about the lipspeak remark. It wasn't aimed at you specifically nor at any one group in the country - any political party - any particularly interested party - anyone reading the post; although I can understand why one would react as the post wasn't written properly.

One thing, whatever ones politics or persuasion, that is not up for grabs to my possibly narrow mind is the education of children. It's not up to the parents alone. It's not up to the state. It's not up to anyone particular group. And it shouldn't be up for sale full stop. Too many have fought too hard to give it over to the profit motive. A child's early education should just be a first step, to my mind, to another step in learning process and hopefully beyond; whether that student be poor or rich shouldn't matter. Why should we make a disctinction between students whose parents are wealthy or students whose parent are poor. Or between great mechanics and great engineers? A rich society isn't measured by its money but what it creates.

Sure, if we keep it quiet the wee feckers will be creating so much wealth and value that our pensions will be assured.
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