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 A Proper Fianna Fáil Thread

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PostSubject: Re: A Proper Fianna Fáil Thread   Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:54 am

I've long toyed with the idea of joining FF and indeed I toy still. In the run up to the Euro elections it just might happen.

I have a lot of respect for them, historically (and I'm not talking about Dev in the 1920s but right up to the end of the 20th century) they have contributed immensely to Ireland's development as a nation, much moreso than any other party. I like their pragmatism-based ideology (or perhaps lack of the same). I do think they have some ideological vices, foremost among them nationalism - I don't like that word, not one bit, and to be honest I think it lingers from the Haughey era when he used it as a stick with which to beat FG. Of course there is also the socially conservative baggage which is almost inevitable if you are to fly with the Irish electorate - it was, anyway. Obviously the times they are a-changing, and I hope FF can facilitate that change for the better.

But obviously the bigger concerns about FF come not from their minimalist ideology but from their actual actions in the past few years and the consequences of these actions. Many consider there to be a strong left wing in FF which would have led to a lot of social democrat style improvements in the past, Haughey was good for this I think. This is great. But it's hard to have confidence in that left wing when FF have allowed government policies to be dominated by the likes of Harney, McDowell and McCreevy over the last few years. I know tonys will probably crucify me for speaking ill of the health service but undoubtedly the cognitive dissonance generated by giving control of the public health service to a woman with a fetish for privatization would have dampened the potential for real progress in that area.

That's about all I have in me for now.
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PostSubject: Re: A Proper Fianna Fáil Thread   Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:26 am

I admit to ambivalence about FF. They're a pragmatist managerial party that'll adopt whatever policy approach seems likely to deliver what the majority of voters want. They seem to want to use smaller coalition parties like management consultancy firms - bring them on board to provide a policy direction, and drop them if the results are unpopular. The tide is currently towards green issues, so the Greens were brought in and given executive directorships (sorry, Ministries) at the last election.

I definitely prefer that to an ideological party...FF has been quite to the right economically recently under the influence of the PDs, but at least it's not because they themselves are right wing. If the groundswell goes against those right-tending policies (and it's worth remembering that Joe and Josephine Public have been largely in favour), they'll shed them.
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PostSubject: Re: A Proper Fianna Fáil Thread   Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:08 am

evercloserunion wrote:
I know tonys will probably crucify me for speaking ill of the health service .
Tonys has no interest in crucifying anyone, we are all entitled from time to time to be wrong and while some here take that to extremes and could do with being right every so often, you would not be counted amongst those. Even for the particularly wayward Tonys would still have to allow that to be wrong is something of an ongoing entitlement.
We all have a cross of one sort or another to carry, yours at the moment happens to be quite large, wooden and fairly heavy, but no more than that.
Mind yourself now, you have a ways to go yet and that hill in front is a steep one.
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PostSubject: Re: A Proper Fianna Fáil Thread   Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:32 am

It's a pity people are walking around with crosses, we could use the wood for keeping ourselves warm.

cactus and tonys

ye were developing a nice theme on the previous page with regards to how socially-minded were your respective favoured parties, Labour and FF - if ye or anyone else were anoraks of the historical/political it would be very interesting to hear a comparison of FF and Lab in this regard over the century - if anyone could keep up such a discussion. I'm sure we'd all learn if you were able to indulge yourself.

We normally only hear a comparison of FG and FF and it caught my eye that a comparison of FF and Lab through the years is as valid, as Lab were a much bigger party in the old days.
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