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 Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots

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PostSubject: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:33 am

Protests against the government in Latvia turned violent yesterday ending in dozens injured and over a hundred arrests. The Government is being blamed for the recession there too it seems.

Latvia
Iceland
Greece

Where next ?

Quote :
MOSCOW: Violent protests over political grievances and economic woes shook the Latvian capital, Riga, late Tuesday, leaving around 25 people injured and leading to 106 arrests.

After the demonstrations, President Valdis Zatlers threatened Wednesday to call for a referendum that would allow voters to dissolve Parliament, saying trust in the government, including its ability to deal with growing economic problems, had "collapsed catastrophically."
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/14/europe/latvia.php

Quote :
Riots in Latvia Leave Dozens Injured
15 January 2009RIGA, Latvia -- Latvia's government and opposition politicians blamed each other Wednesday for rioting in the capital that left more than 40 people injured in the worst violence since the country split from the Soviet Union in 1991.

The violence erupted late Tuesday after a peaceful anti-government demonstration in downtown Riga, where participants criticized ministers for the country's worsening recession and called on the president to dissolve the parliament.
http://www.moscowtimes.ru/article/1010/42/373570.htm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6IkHuT6JoQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q0vVYLBEeE
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:08 am

Its Bulgaria tonight.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:28 am

And there has been a shooting of a policeman in Greece .. Link

Riots in Sofia - Irish Times

It's the End of the feckin world out there
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:12 pm

Interesting..All these states are within Russia's desired sphere of influence.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:26 pm

Respvblica wrote:
Interesting..All these states are within Russia's desired sphere of influence.

The Ukraine as well Shocked

Interesting stuff indeed. The meeting points of two blocs with two apparently different economic systems in the past - perhaps it's literally where one system ends and the other begins, geographically and figuratively ?

The West is starting to want to become more of a Command Economy while Russia has just spent a decade trying out ours in theory. The likes of the Latvians and Ukrainians perhaps had the impression that they'd be a lot freer and prosperous under our kind of umbrella but if they're not going through growing pains you'd nearly start questioning the basis of such democratic-freemarket/centralised-command systems in a fundamental way.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:34 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Respvblica wrote:
Interesting..All these states are within Russia's desired sphere of influence.

The Ukraine as well Shocked

Interesting stuff indeed. The meeting points of two blocs with two apparently different economic systems in the past - perhaps it's literally where one system ends and the other begins, geographically and figuratively ?

The West is starting to want to become more of a Command Economy while Russia has just spent a decade trying out ours in theory. The likes of the Latvians and Ukrainians perhaps had the impression that they'd be a lot freer and prosperous under our kind of umbrella but if they're not going through growing pains you'd nearly start questioning the basis of such democratic-freemarket/centralised-command systems in a fundamental way.

Yip. I actually think there is a covergence which is occuring here. No doubt this a holy grail for some but I wonder if the people are going to be shut out. Russia worries me more than any other nation, perhaps even more than China. By its very geography it is always threatening.
I would be worried about the West allowing mishandling of these small states by Russia in exchange for Gas.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:48 pm

The Russians must be feeling the vice grip of the desperate price of oil now after a year or two of pure wealth rolling in. I'm not given to conspiracy theories but have come across a fella called Lesley Williams on Alex Jones who believed last July that prices of oil would collapse (or be collapsed ...) down to fifty dollars or less and this would disturb Iran and Russia as well as Venezuela and bankrupt the Arabs.

Youngdan goes on about it now and again but no one listens. Otherwise we're putting the oil price collapse down to consequent deflation of the economy in a global recession.

Signs that energy before much else is important and not to be underestimated at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:56 pm

A Lituanian friend, no lover of the Russians as she was born in a Siberian work camp, tells me that Lithuanian Christmas dinner that used to be turkey for the last few years has been chicken legs.

Westernisation of the Russian and eastern european economies for a lot of people lead to loss of jobs and services and desperate impoverishment. Life expectancy dropped in Russia by 15 years. They were probably told that it would all pan out just like Ireland in a year or two. A few oligarchs took it all (our Mr. Ganley was in there to get a share of course).

The US was quick to get in there with missile and military bases and backing the likes of the man in Georgia. There is a fault line there all right, but there is bad stuff going on on either side of it.

Now Ireland has a year of cash reserves left after which we may face similar, unless we take this thing by the scruff of the neck and turn it around, and don't allow, as Res. says "the people to be shut out".
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:24 pm

In Lithuania yesterday there were angry demonstrations against "reforms" with the Parliament hit (and windows broken) by snowballs.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:00 am

The IMF are in Latvia - public sector wage cuts, job/service cuts and higher taxes seems to be their recipe. Latvian economists say they are looking forward to grinding poverty.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:01 am

Page 5 of the SBP today says that the Latvian government has agreed to make a 15 per cent cut in average public sector (including local government and state agency) pay this year in exchange for a €7.5 billion IMF/EU loan? bail out? and a 5% cut in public sector jobs, along with other slash and burn measures.

Latvia had a boom until recently. In November they nationalised their second largest bank.

Latvia is the only EU state whose economy is projected to contract more than Ireland in 2009.
http://euobserver.com/9/27329

Effectively, they have lost their sovereignty:

Quote :
Superintendents

In effect, the commission and the ecofin council will become the superintendents of the Latvian economy, overseeing the implementation of the austerity package and ready to demand further cuts if necessary.

"The commission in collaboration with the economic and financial committee will monitor regularly and closely that the economic policy conditions attached to the financial assistance are fully implemented and may request additional measures when and if circumstances so require," the statement read.

The proposed medium-term financial assistance to Latvia from the EU will consist of a European Community loan, which has yet to be approved by the commission. This is expected to happen early in January. The loan will then require approval by the EU finance ministers.

The Nordic countries have participated in the scheme as a result of their heavy investment in the Baltics.

The EU in November also agreed to similar loans to Hungary worth some €6.5 billion. Beyond the EU, Belarus, Iceland and Serbia have also applied to the IMF for financial assistance to deal with the crisis.

The IMF board will meet before the end of the year to deliver its final approval to the deal.

Going on IMF track record, they will be tied into measures that bring a lot of pain, and that may be counterproductive in terms of recovery.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:10 pm

This is a clear picture of what could face Ireland if we don't get our act together.

This tallies with the FT article previosly quoted in the Irish Economy/Budget thread (or was it the Anglo thread) which said that the biggest question around was "What if" a Euro economy defaulted. The article posited that a loss of fiscal sovereignty would result. Latvia shows how this works.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:14 pm

Zhou_Enlai wrote:
This is a clear picture of what could face Ireland if we don't get our act together.

This tallies with the FT article previosly quoted in the Irish Economy/Budget thread (or was it the Anglo thread) which said that the biggest question around was "What if" a Euro economy defaulted. The article posited that a loss of fiscal sovereignty would result. Latvia shows how this works.
That is an opinion, not a fact Wink

Don't worry, David Begg doesn't read the propaganda of MN.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:15 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Zhou_Enlai wrote:
This is a clear picture of what could face Ireland if we don't get our act together.

This tallies with the FT article previosly quoted in the Irish Economy/Budget thread (or was it the Anglo thread) which said that the biggest question around was "What if" a Euro economy defaulted. The article posited that a loss of fiscal sovereignty would result. Latvia shows how this works.
That is an opinion, not a fact Wink

Don't worry, David Begg doesn't read the propaganda of MN.

It is a prediction, based on analysis of facts.

David Begg is missing out.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:31 pm

cactus flower wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
Zhou_Enlai wrote:
This is a clear picture of what could face Ireland if we don't get our act together.

This tallies with the FT article previosly quoted in the Irish Economy/Budget thread (or was it the Anglo thread) which said that the biggest question around was "What if" a Euro economy defaulted. The article posited that a loss of fiscal sovereignty would result. Latvia shows how this works.
That is an opinion, not a fact Wink

Don't worry, David Begg doesn't read the propaganda of MN.

It is a prediction, based on analysis of facts.

David Begg is missing out.
What facts are those?

Some commentators believe we will have a period of superhyperinflation after this trough of deflation - these were the commentators predicting the trough we're in now. Someone's putting out some propaganda somewhere ...
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:17 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
Zhou_Enlai wrote:
This is a clear picture of what could face Ireland if we don't get our act together.

This tallies with the FT article previosly quoted in the Irish Economy/Budget thread (or was it the Anglo thread) which said that the biggest question around was "What if" a Euro economy defaulted. The article posited that a loss of fiscal sovereignty would result. Latvia shows how this works.
That is an opinion, not a fact Wink

Don't worry, David Begg doesn't read the propaganda of MN.

It is a prediction, based on analysis of facts.

David Begg is missing out.
What facts are those?

Some commentators believe we will have a period of superhyperinflation after this trough of deflation - these were the commentators predicting the trough we're in now. Someone's putting out some propaganda somewhere ...

Well, that it could face Ireland is a fact. That it will face Ireland would be an opinion Smile .

FT Article - ‘What if’ becomes the default question By Wolfgang Münchau
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:36 pm

It is a definite possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:19 pm

Zhou_Enlai wrote:
Well, that it could face Ireland is a fact. That it will face Ireland would be an opinion Smile .

FT Article - ‘What if’ becomes the default question By Wolfgang Münchau
With regard to your factual opinion, could another EU country gives us a bailout? I hadn't thought about this before, somehow, like asking your super-tight, super-conservative, mass-going, hyprocritical aunt for a loan to help you out after you wrapped your car around a tree:

Quote :
What about a direct fiscal bail-out by other member states? I suspect that the non-defaulting governments would be reluctant initially. Many of them had difficulty selling austerity-type policies to their domestic electorates and they might not achieve the parliamentary majorities needed for a bail-out. Some would no doubt argue that a bail-out would carry the risk of moral hazard.

They could make a few eurobob out of us though surely?
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:25 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Zhou_Enlai wrote:
Well, that it could face Ireland is a fact. That it will face Ireland would be an opinion Smile .

FT Article - ‘What if’ becomes the default question By Wolfgang Münchau
With regard to your factual opinion, could another EU country gives us a bailout? I hadn't thought about this before, somehow, like asking your super-tight, super-conservative, mass-going, hyprocritical aunt for a loan to help you out after you wrapped your car around a tree:

Quote :
What about a direct fiscal bail-out by other member states? I suspect that the non-defaulting governments would be reluctant initially. Many of them had difficulty selling austerity-type policies to their domestic electorates and they might not achieve the parliamentary majorities needed for a bail-out. Some would no doubt argue that a bail-out would carry the risk of moral hazard.

They could make a few eurobob out of us though surely?

They have done that in Latvia and a pile of other countries. However, terms and conditions apply. Basically we would be tied up in knots by two sets of wrong-headed fly-in experts.


Superintendents
Quote :
In effect, the commission and the ecofin council will become the superintendents of the Latvian economy, overseeing the implementation of the austerity package and ready to demand further cuts if necessary.
"The commission in collaboration with the economic and financial committee will monitor regularly and closely that the economic policy conditions attached to the financial assistance are fully implemented and may request additional measures when and if circumstances so require," the statement read.
The proposed medium-term financial assistance to Latvia from the EU will consist of a European Community loan, which has yet to be approved by the commission. This is expected to happen early in January. The loan will then require approval by the EU finance ministers.

The Nordic countries have participated in the scheme as a result of their heavy investment in the Baltics.
The EU in November also agreed to similar loans to Hungary worth some €6.5 billion. Beyond the EU, Belarus, Iceland and Serbia have also applied to the IMF for financial assistance to deal with the crisis.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Government Demonstrations in Latvia turn into Riots   Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:06 am

Latvia is going from a 12% growth to 12% contraction in two years. The new government is forming after a 7.5 billion IMF loan, and the new PM says the country is near bankruptcy.
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