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 Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out

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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:58 pm

There is a list on the portal - left hand side, not sure about the commas.
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:00 pm

http://www.contact.ie/ is useful for petitions although it's not fully operational in one aspect at the moment.


Compare the collective political and media calls for concerted action against Zimbabwe (or Kosovo say) against the shameful, complicit silence in this case.

What can we do to make a difference?

At the very least, all Israeli ambassadors would be expelled, all trade links would be cancelled and immediate sanctions would be imposed. Arms supplies would be ended and other states would be lobbied for the same.

Yet, in contrast to Zimbabwe, the very idea of these emergency humanitarian responses would be dismissed as fanciful. (not that I agree with humanitarian imperialism in Zimbabwe btw)

Instead, politicians put on their grave faces, utter more "calls" for a ceasefire and hope the pressure on them to actually do something passes quickly.
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:04 pm

johnfás wrote:
If you could get a list separated by commas of the e-mails of every member of the Oireachtas it would be easy enough to create a form to email them all.

taoiseach@taoiseach.ie, bertie.ahern@oireachtas.ie, michael.ahern@oireachtas.ie, noel.ahern@oireachtas.ie, bernard.allen@oireachtas.ie, chris.andrews@oireachtas.ie, barry.andrews@oireachtas.ie, sean@ardagh.org, bobby.aylward@oireachtas.ie, james.bannon@oireachtas.ie, sean.barrett@oireachtas.ie, joe.behan@oireachtas.ie, john.browne@oireachtas.ie, aine.brady@oireachtas.ie, cyprian.brady@oireachtas.ie, johnny.brady@oireachtas.ie, pat.breen@oireachtas.ie, thomas.p.broughan@oireachtas.ie, niall.blaney@oireachtas.ie, richard.bruton@oireachtas.ie, ulick.burke@oireachtas.ie, joan.burton@oireachtas.ie, catherine.byrne@oireachtas.ie, thomas.byrne@oireachtas.ie, niall.collins@oireachtas.ie, minister.carey@taoiseach.gov.ie, joe.carey@oireachtas.ie, deirdre.clune@oireachtas.ie, dara.calleary@oireachtas.ie, margaret.conlon@oireachtas.ie, paul.connaughton@oireachtas.ie, sean.connick@oireachtas.ie, michael.creed@oireachtas.ie, joe.costello@oireachtas.ie, simon.coveney@oireachtas.ie, minister@finance.gov.ie, seymour.crawford@oireachtas.ie, noel.coonan@oireachtas.ie, john.cregan@oireachtas.ie, lucinda.creighton@oireachtas.ie,
jimmy.devins@oireachtas.ie, minister@welfare.ie, minister@dfa.ie
john.curran@oireachtas.ie, michael.darcy@oireachtas.ie,
john.deasy@oireachtas.ie, jdeenihan@eircom.net,
minister@transport.ie, ciaran.cuffe@oireachtas.ie, timmy.dooley@oireachtas.ie, andrew.doyle@oireachtas.ie,
bernard.durkan@oireachtas.ie, damien.english@oireachtas.ie,
michael.fitzpatrick@oireachtas.ie, frank.fahey@oireachtas.ie,
frank.feighan@oireachtas.ie, martin.ferris@oireachtas.ie,
michael.finneran@oireachtas.ie, olwyn.enright@oireachtas.ie, charles.flanagan@oireachtas.ie, terence.flanagan@oireachtas.ie,
sean.fleming@oireachtas.ie, beverly.flynn@oireachtas.ie,
patthecope.gallagher@oireachtas.ie, tony.gregory@oireachtas.ie,
paul.gogarty@oireachtas.ie, minister@environ.ie, minister@justice.ie, ministersoffice@dast.gov.ie, minister@dfa.ie, noel.grealish@oireachtas.ie, eamon.gilmore@oireachtas.ie, ministers_office@health.irlgov.ie, brendan.howlin@oireachtas.ie, brian.hayes@oireachtas.ie,
tom.hayes@oireachtas.ie, Jackie.Healy.Rae@oireachtas.ie, michael.higgins@oireachtas.ie, maire.hoctor@oireachtas.ie,
philip.hogan@oireachtas.ie, sean_haughey@education.gov.ie, paul.kehoe@oireachtas.ie, billy.kelleher@eircom.net,
peter.kelly@oireachtas.ie, bwk@eircom.net, michael.kennedy@oireachtas.ie, enda.kenny@oireachtas.ie, ministerofstate@dcmnr.gov.ie, minister.kitt@taoiseach.gov.ie, michael.kitt@oireachtas.ie, seamus.kirk@oireachtas.ie, brian.lenihan@oireachtas.ie, conor.lenihan@oireachtas.ie, michael.lowry@oireachtas.ie, kathleen.lynch@oireachtas.ie, tom.mcellistrim@oireachtas.ie,
martin.mansergh@oireachtas.ie, minister_martin@entemp.ie, padraic.mccormack@oireachtas.ie, jim.mcdaid@oireachtas.ie, ciaran.lynch@oireachtas.ie, shane.mcentee@oireachtas.ie, dinny.mcginley@oireachtas.ie, mattie.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie, michael.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie, finian.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie, minister@agriculture.gov.ie, john.moloney@oireachtas.ie, joe.mchugh@oireachtas.ie, liz.mcmanus@oireachtas.ie, olivia.mitchell@oireachtas.ie, john.mcguinness@oireachtas.ie, arthur.morgan@oireachtas.ie, michael.moynihan.td@oireachtas.ie, michael.mulcahy@oireachtas.ie, denis.naughten@oireachtas.ie, sean.ofearghail@oireachtas.ie, mj.nolan@oireachtas.ie, michael.noonan@oireachtas.ie, ocaolain@oireachtas.ie, aire@pobail.ie, minister_okeeffe@education.gov.ie, daniel.neville@oireachtas.ie, aengus.osnodaigh@oireachtas.ie, darragh.obrien@oireachtas.ie, charlie.oconnor@oireachtas.ie, kieran.odonnell@oireachtas.ie, john.odonoghue@oireachtas.ie, fergus.odowd@oireachtas.ie, noel.oflynn@oireachtas.ie, rory.ohanlon@oireachtas.ie, webmaster@defence.irlgov.ie, jim.okeefe@oireachtas.ie, ned.okeefe@oireachtas.ie, john.omahony@oireachtas.ie, sean.power@oireachtas.ie, boshea@eircom.net, christy.osullivan@oireachtas.ie, jan.osullivan@oireachtas.ie, willie.penrose@oireachtas.ie, john.perry@oireachtas.ie, mary.orourke@Oireachtas.ie, peter.power@oireachtas.ie, ruairi.quinn@oireachtas.ie, pat.rabbitte@oireachtas.ie, james.reilly@oireachtas.ie, alan.shatter@oireachtas.ie, dick.roche@oireachtas.ie, tanaiste@entemp.ie, minister.ryan@dcmnr.gov.ie, trevor.sargent@oireachtas.ie, eamon.scanlon@oireachtas.ie, michael.ring@oireachtas.ie, pj.sheehan@oireachtas.ie, sean.sherlock@oireachtas.ie, tom.sheahan@oireachtas.ie, roisin.shortall@oireachtas.ie, joanna.tuffy@oireachtas.ie, emmet.stagg@oireachtas.ie, david.stanton@oireachtas.ie, billy.timmins@oireachtas.ie, noel.treacy@oireachtas.ie, mary.upton@oireachtas.ie, michael.woods@oireachtas.ie, jack.wall@oireachtas.ie, mary_wallace@health.irlgov.ie, marya.white@oireachtas.ie, leo.varadkar@oireachtas.ie,
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:07 pm

That's the list you need. If you find an online form creator just put that list into the recipient field and when you submit on the form it will send to all of those addresses. Easy Peasy.
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:11 pm

Michéal Martin
Minister for Foreign Affairs
Department of Foreign Affairs
80 Stephen’s Green
Dublin 2
Tel: (01) 4780822
LoCall: 1890 426 700
Email minister@dfa.ie


Dear Minister Martin,

I am outraged by the terrible and inhuman attacks on the civilian population of the Gaza Strip, in which white phosphorus, shells and bombs have been used against the civilian population. Over 1,000 people have died, more than 300 of them children.
It appears from the targets that have been attacked – homes, schools, hospitals, the UNWRA depot, the Press Centre, the Parliament and administrative buildings, the university and mosques, that the whole population and social infrastructure of Gaza is under threat of destruction.
I urge the Irish Government to sever diplomatic ties with Israel and to exert the utmost pressure through the EU and UN to secure an immediate cease fire and withdrawal of Israeli forces.

Yours sincerely


Last edited by cactus flower on Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:14 pm

I started a thread this morning called Action against the Gaza Massacre
http://machinenation.forumakers.com/world-politics-and-events-f27/action-against-the-gaza-massacre-t1844.htm#60713

Shall I close that one and rename this one, which can be kept for action based posts rather than discussion?
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:34 pm

This came back - A number of other email addresses were bounced back. I'll list then in a little while.

I too am appalled by the indiscriminate attacks by Israeli forces which has resulted in so many civilian fatalities, including those of children and elderly, who were simply sheltering from the conflict taking place in their neighbourhoods. The death and suffering inflicted on the people of Gaza as a result of the continuation of the troubles cannot be accepted and must come to an immediate end. I will forwawrd your e-mail to Minsiter Micheal Martin T.D. Minister for Foreign Affairs and ask him to do his best to seek an immediate cessation of violence and open the way for dialogue with all parties concerned.

Thank you for your comments on the matter.

Yours truly

JOHN BROWNE T.D.
Wexford
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:43 pm

Anyone know what the opinion of Fatah in the West Bank is in all of this ?
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:52 pm

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
Anyone know what the opinion of Fatah in the West Bank is in all of this ?

I think they are split. An old Fatah commander was interviewed lunchtime and was giving out about Hamas. I young guy was saying that Fatah are going to have to completely change their policies.

The people on the street are saying they must stop fighting each other.
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:39 pm

Thank you for your email. I share your views on Israel's horrific attack on the people of Gaza and the need for decisive action from the Irish government, European Union and United Nations.

Sinn Féin have made these points repeatedly since the assault began. My colleague Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh, who has travelled to Palestine twice in recent years, called last week for an Oireachtas committee to examine the EU's agreements with Israel. Sinn Féin MEP Mary Lou McDonald has publicly called for those agreements to be suspended. Our Assembly and local authority members have tabled motions in their respective institutions condemning the attacks (the Dublin City Council motion was opposed by the Fianna Fáil-Labour coalition that dominates the Council). Our elected representatives and members have also marched and spoken at many of the rallies held over the past weeks in support of the people of Gaza.

Be assured that we will continue to do everything in our power to compel action to stop the slaughter in Gaza.

Is mise
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin TD
Sinn Féin Dáil Leader
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:44 pm


The thread referred to in the posts below is here, for anyone who wants to refer to it to provide context for Edo's and Zakalwe's posts. Thank you. (cf)


http://machinenation.forumakers.com/world-politics-and-events-f27/action-against-the-gaza-massacre-t1844.htm#60811

Best of Luck

Personally I think you'd all be better off organising a raffle to purchase a couple of Eurofighter Typhoons jets and an AWACs controller if you really want to directly affect what is going on in Gaza and actually save lives...................If Europe was allowed to have a rapid reaction force with teeth.............nah you probably have the right approach.................lots of chain letters,indignation and protests - I mean its the morally superior thing to do and as we know - its got a 100% success record when it comes getting Israel in line.............. Rolling Eyes


Last edited by cactus flower on Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : to provide link to the thread to which Edo is referring)
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:46 pm

Edo wrote:
Best of Luck

Personally I think you'd all be better off organising a raffle to purchase a couple of Eurofighter Typhoons jets and an AWACs controller if you really want to directly affect what is going on in Gaza and actually save lives...................If Europe was allowed to have a rapid reaction force with teeth.............nah you probably have the right approach.................lots of chain letters,indignation and protests - I mean its the morally superior thing to do and as we know - its got a 100% success record when it comes getting Israel in line.............. Rolling Eyes

Any serious suggestions Edo, or just the usual ?
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:46 pm

Dear Mr Cowen,

Tell Hamas to stop pissing off the Israelis and their children will stop dying.

Signed

................
Concerned Citizen and Voter
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:04 pm

zakalwe wrote:
Dear Mr Cowen,

Tell Hamas to stop pissing off the Israelis and their children will stop dying.

Signed

................
Concerned Citizen and Voter

Spoken like a true terrorist. We'll steal your homes and your land using violence and if you fight back we'll kill your children. Nice.

[Suggest both this and the comment that precedes are deleted in lind with CF request in originating thread post.]
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:07 pm

cactus flower wrote:
Edo wrote:
Best of Luck

Personally I think you'd all be better off organising a raffle to purchase a couple of Eurofighter Typhoons jets and an AWACs controller if you really want to directly affect what is going on in Gaza and actually save lives...................If Europe was allowed to have a rapid reaction force with teeth.............nah you probably have the right approach.................lots of chain letters,indignation and protests - I mean its the morally superior thing to do and as we know - its got a 100% success record when it comes getting Israel in line.............. Rolling Eyes

Any serious suggestions Edo, or just the usual ?

Its a hell of a lot more serious and realistic suggestion than the usual moralising shite that is about as effective as an umbrella in a hurricane and is purely for the benefit of the anti-Israeli/US/Hippy brigade so they can a feeling of accomplishment of having done something.

Only the threat of overwhelming force being used to protect the citizens of Gaza will work here - period - The UN will do nothing - Europe should act unilaterally here and send in troops and the planes and the lot - that would require Europe to spend far more on its on military than it does currently - especially in transportation and high end weaponry - the EDA would allow us to that very efficiently and also send a message to the Yanks that we are not prepared to be pushed around anymore and we have a vital interest in seeing this conflict resolved - but thanks to the quislings who work for the US far right who are busy making sure nothing like that will ever happen -helped massively by the Far leftie peaceniks who associate all military spending with the Pentagon and thus is evil................. Sounds like Europe in the 1930's all over again - there comes a time when you need to fight fire with fire and also to speak softly, but carry a big big stick.

So if you really think that writing and protesting will help stop the suffering - well start writing to the Hamas leadership and their backers in Tehran to stop sending rockets over the border and stop being a bunch of cowards hiding behind their women and children - then again it will probably be as effective as what you are doing right now - the current round of this conflict will end when Israel calls it - only then - Europe has no power and is continually hamstrung on every occasion by exactly those individuals who are bawling their eyes out about the Palestinians right now - the palestinian people are dying because of the selfishness and self centred delusions of the European Left.
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:20 pm

Have no idea why my post and Zakalwes- which has no relevance to this thread - was moved here - if i wanted to comment on this thread I would have posted it here in the first place

Me thinks some folks around here dont like their delusions of self-righteous grandeur being questioned - if all the other thread is about is a message board for organising a campaign - maybe it would be better off over at Indymedia - where it would get the uncritical reception it clearly requires and most of the headbangers who go these gigs all hang out over there too.

* Edit - now I see my other post is over here too - classy stuff - the thought police are out in force tonight.
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:25 pm

The thread referred to in the posts above is here, for anyone who wants to refer to it to provide context for Edo's and Zakalwe's posts. Thank you.

http://machinenation.forumakers.com/world-politics-and-events-f27/action-against-the-gaza-massacre-t1844.htm#60811

Edo - you are welcome to make whatever comments you want on the site, but the OP clearly asked that that thread should be kept for notices and in order not to get cluttered up not be used for discussion and comments. There are already three perfectly good Gaza threads here on which you can take a shot at anyone's views, personality or style of dress. There is no requirement for anyone to go to Indymedia if they want to post non-commmercial notices here.
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:43 pm

Edo wrote:

The thread referred to in the posts below is here, for anyone who wants to refer to it to provide context for Edo's and Zakalwe's posts. Thank you. (cf)


http://machinenation.forumakers.com/world-politics-and-events-f27/action-against-the-gaza-massacre-t1844.htm#60811

Best of Luck

Personally I think you'd all be better off organising a raffle to purchase a couple of Eurofighter Typhoons jets and an AWACs controller if you really want to directly affect what is going on in Gaza and actually save lives...................If Europe was allowed to have a rapid reaction force with teeth.............nah you probably have the right approach.................lots of chain letters,indignation and protests - I mean its the morally superior thing to do and as we know - its got a 100% success record when it comes getting Israel in line.............. Rolling Eyes

Edo,

You are right about the rapid reaction force, we should have it, although in this circumstance I doubt they’d use it, not yet anyway. You’re right about the attitude of the left on defence, they want everything, they want it now but they’re not willing to defend it by force when that’s necessary.

That said the way the Israeli forces are behaving in Gaza is unjustifiable & inexcusable and therefore any pressure that can be brought to bear on the Israelis is worthwhile.
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:49 pm

Much kudos to Chris Andrews for his comments on this matter. See also today's IT Letters page dealing extensively with the Gaza crisis, including a letter of condemnation signed by many politicians and other well-known and important people.
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:18 pm

evercloserunion wrote:
Much kudos to Chris Andrews for his comments on this matter. See also today's IT Letters page dealing extensively with the Gaza crisis, including a letter of condemnation signed by many politicians and other well-known and important people.

Including Robert Ballagh, who campaigned against the GFA referendum in 1998 on the basis that the peace process compromised the integrity of Ireland. I am not certain that a two state solution is desired by many of those who signed that letter though I am open to persuasion. Expelling the Israeli ambassador will make a lot of anti Israel campaigners feel good about themselves and will achieve precisely nothing on the ground IMHO. Instead we have had an incredibly cheap shot against the only Jewish TD in the house from Deputy Ó Snodaigh, for daring to have a different analysis to the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign. Mr. Pot meet Mr. Kettle.

So many people are now so worked up about Gaza that I fully expect tempers to boil over at some stage on the streets, whether against the Israeli Embassy or against shops selling Israeli produce. Never mind that there are barely a thousand Jews left in Ireland and that there are probably only the tinest multiple of that thousand who might be uncritical supporters of Israel. Before someone produces their studs onto me I am not an uncritical supporter of Israel and yet again I have to reiterate that Israel has a case to answer for its heavy handedness. But however I do support the right of both Palestine and Israel to exist, to be sovereign states and both to be free from attack. It is a bloody shame that intransigence has directly lead to the deaths in Gaza. Burning Israeli flags and shouting "Victory to Hamas" on the streets of Ireland will do absolutely nothing to bring about peace and reconcilation, unless of course those who do really do want Israel destroyed. Not in my name.
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:03 am

cactus flower wrote:
EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
Anyone know what the opinion of Fatah in the West Bank is in all of this ?

I think they are split. An old Fatah commander was interviewed lunchtime and was giving out about Hamas. I young guy was saying that Fatah are going to have to completely change their policies.

The people on the street are saying they must stop fighting each other.

Not that surprising, considering. *

*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_civil_skirmishes#U.S._funding.2C_weapons_and_training_for_Fatah

Quote :
Over the 2006 and 2007, the United States supplied guns,
ammunition and training to Palestinian Fatah activists to take on Hamas
in the streets of Gaza and the West Bank in a U.S. effort that cost $59
million and covertly persuaded Arab allies to supply more funding.



A large number of Fatah activists were trained and "graduated" from two
West Bank camps while Jordan and Egypt trained two Fatah battalions,
one of which was deployed to Gaza in May.[6][7][8]


According to Vanity Fair, in 2006 the United States initiated a "covert
initiative, approved by Bush and implemented by Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice and Deputy National Security Adviser Elliott Abrams,
to provoke a Palestinian civil war."
[9]
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:08 am

So Fatah are regarded as the legitimate Palestinian 'government' operating out of the West Bank and Hamas as illegitimate. Are there any Fatah reps in Gaza then ? It really strikes me as two countries, not one.

Does Hamas have much political support in Gaza ? Clearly they must.

I'm not really understanding this situation very well.
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:36 am

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
So Fatah are regarded as the legitimate Palestinian 'government' operating out of the West Bank and Hamas as illegitimate. Are there any Fatah reps in Gaza then ? It really strikes me as two countries, not one.

Does Hamas have much political support in Gaza ? Clearly they must.

I'm not really understanding this situation very well.
Fatah are regarded by the US and Israel as the legitmate authority. I daresay Europe holds the same opinion; they certainly regard Hamas as a terrorist group.

Fatah are in charge in the West Bank and Hamas in the Gaza Strip. I think all the Fatah reps were expelled when Hamas took control, Hamas people have had a hard time of it in the West Bank.

Hamas were elected to power in the Palestinian territories generally. No one outside Palestine (bar Norway) would recognise their right to authority, despite the elections being quite fair. They would have plenty of support in Gaza.
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:57 am

Thanks for that 905. I have to admit I'm more curious about the
political history of the region now than I am in the current conflict.
I hope that does not sound horrid.

How does a Jewish state end up separating two bits of an Arab state. Is there any other example of this in the world ?
And then the political regimes in the two bits end up having a sort of
remote civil war ? Supported and oppressed by countries all over the
globe, US, EU, Iran, Syria, Jordan, etc.etc.

I wonder would the political/religious history of this region be worthy
of a separate thread ? I read on wiki today that Napoleon once invaded
Gaza ....
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:48 am

EVm, the short answer is Hamas are the elected government of Palestine.

The Palestinian people are amongst the most secular in the middle east.
Hamas does not want an Islamic republic or a Saudi style religious
dictatorship.

The Palestinian people voted for Hamas because they saw that they could
provide public services unlike the quisling, corrupt Fatah.

However, like with the recent banning of arab parties in Israel proper prior to the upcoming elections there, Israel
interferes and attempts a divide and conquer strategy to try and get the
party it wants elected by the Palestinians. This is all profoundly
undemocratic and illegal.

Gaza is surrounded in the North and East and the sea in the West, by a
US client state which receives over $3 billion a year from the US. This is of course
Israel.

And in the South by the US client state of the Mubarak regime which
receives $2 billion a year from the US and jails and shoots union
protesters. Of course Egypt
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PostSubject: Re: Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out   

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Live Webcam in Gaza / White phosphorus bombs / Israel declares Unilateral Ceasefire -Troops pull out
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