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 Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland

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PostSubject: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:52 am

The Prime Time report on it.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1216/primetime_av.html?2463951,null,230

Long on intentions but short on inventions ? The Opposition have already said "Too little too late" (boo to them) - could this take Ireland out of the Pit of Hell we are slowly and horribly sliding into like the the ground under us was Quicksand ? We are losing jobs by the 4k per week - although today we got 1200 between two crowds - an American pharmaceutical research company and (?) in West Dublin - could this plan reverse this hemorrhaging of jobs ?

Fine Gael are already talking about renegotiating the public sector pay deal and cutting costs instead of doing anything like the above. Come on Richard - attack them rightly !

This plan could perhaps work to a degree but is necessary anyway. In fact it was necessary to start this ten years ago but I fear it will be built in a ham-fisted manner now by this Government but here's to hoping.

One thing I hope they do is provide plenty of statistics so I can stick them up on the portal to see how far they've got with their plans..

Examiner


Last edited by cactus flower on Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:10 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : for brevity.)
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:55 am

Bruton ate him. I am surprised Ryan didn't just bend over and accept his discipline.

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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:57 am

Plan? What Plan?
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:04 am

johnfás wrote:
Bruton ate him. I am surprised Ryan didn't just bend over and accept his discipline.

I thought Bruton was



when Mark Little (?) asked him how cutting public costs would create jobs. How was Ryan destroyed johnfás ?
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:21 am

When I hear Bruton talking, I am wafted instantly back to the 1980s, and the prospect of a spiral of closing services and declining economic activity.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:24 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
How was Ryan destroyed johnfás ?

Ryan hadn't a notion beyond the longer term picture. We need both short and longterm thinking.

Bruton was talking about cutting public sector pay, not services. Why shouldn't the public sector take a pay cut? Every other sector is.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:19 pm

johnfás wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
How was Ryan destroyed johnfás ?

Ryan hadn't a notion beyond the longer term picture. We need both short and longterm thinking.

Bruton was talking about cutting public sector pay, not services. Why shouldn't the public sector take a pay cut? Every other sector is.

Yes absolutely they should take a pay cut now and Bruton was making the short-term point of course - cut costs now and try to get competitiveness into it. He was knackered though when confronted by the question of creating jobs. Maybe he's getting his priorities right though by focusing on lowering costs and the investment will come naturally after that ?

Morning Ireland yesterday on the recovery plan
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1218/morningireland_av.html?2464860,null,209

Prime Time last night
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1218/primetime_av.html?2465330,null,230

I hope these links work now - sometimes they have problems loading some jpg or something ..
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:00 pm

The big gap in this plan is a pay freeze in the public sector, for more than the 11 months agreed (plus pensions reform). The only thing is, I'm not sure I'd blame them for being cautious on this one, if America wakes up in mid Feb during a cold snap and find half the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is missing....inflation might be back with a bang. Opec are cutting their supplies over Chrimbo, apparently.

Eamon Ryan did not deny that they were talking to the social partners about the pay deal anyway... consensus on the matter might take longer than the meedja would like, but we DO have to try and work together....the alternative might be a bit Greek. And I don't think the Yoof of Today having fun with high speed rocks in Grafton St would do much for GDP either.

There is one long term plus... de udder half was in the UK yesterday, apparently contacts in the university sector say their sci/tech research funding has crashed big time... one department to my knowledge was getting 15 mill in research funds in 2001.... down to 5 million now.

So the hi tech investment might get us a bit ahead of the competition next door..... especially as there is a big hole in Oxbridge's endowments right now.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:47 pm

This is a desperately poor document. If this is the best that they can come up with then we really are in a huge amount of trouble. The government seem to be in a state of absolute paralysis; completely out of ideas and utterly out of their depth. Putting politics aside, I think it is enormously disappointing for all of us. Ireland is not a polarised country in political terms. If the government came forward with a truly brave and ambitious plan for economic recovery then I think the whole country would get behind them. Everyone I speak to accepts that there will be painful decisions and serious readjustments ahead but there is absolutely no sense of leadership. The government have made no attempt to devise and communicate a coherent plan for recovery and renewal. Instead, it looks like they will continue to drip-feed painful, tactical cuts across the board without any overarching narrative. I sincerely hope that this Government is not in office this time next year.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:33 pm

I'm more and more inclined to agree with your last statement unaligned but I hope that if there is a GE soon that FF get decimated - literally. It seems that any of them in there could turn a bad situation worse in my mind so better if they are outside the door waiting for that upturn so they can fatten their cronies again.

Sorry about the vitriol but I just don't think it's the time for ham-fistedness at any turn now; stuff needs to be done, it needs to be done competently, more needs to be done for less and has to last longer. We'll soon find ourselves in an Icelandic position, scratching our arses without two brass farthings to rub together. I think for instance that giving 10 billion to a toolbox full of slimebags is equivalent to putting a gun against your own kneecap.

I hear expat up there on the possibility of inflation but can't these pay deals be done soon with contingency built in now which would kick in later in the event of inflation later ? Seriously they need to sort it out fast and furious now and do this Economic strategy on the backfoot, unless they focus on the prioritised strands in it whic, when exercised would show up as immediate effects - perhaps within a year. Saving on imports of energy seems to be a feature of it and rightly so but they need to get the finger out fast. I'd say we won't see a smart meter for five bloody years. Not that smart meters would have a major impact but they'd be visible evidence of something happening. A device like that into which some micro-generation could be plugged (e.g. solar panels) might create some business there. I'm convinced the ESB are sitting on that though.

On Drivetime they were saying that there's no sense of ownership associated with this scheme now - and comparing it to the "power of one" campaign you can see the self-defeating lethargy of it.

But here's hoping.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:07 am

expat girl wrote:
The big gap in this plan is a pay freeze in the public sector, for more than the 11 months agreed (plus pensions reform). The only thing is, I'm not sure I'd blame them for being cautious on this one, if America wakes up in mid Feb during a cold snap and find half the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is missing....inflation might be back with a bang. Opec are cutting their supplies over Chrimbo, apparently.

Eamon Ryan did not deny that they were talking to the social partners about the pay deal anyway... consensus on the matter might take longer than the meedja would like, but we DO have to try and work together....the alternative might be a bit Greek. And I don't think the Yoof of Today having fun with high speed rocks in Grafton St would do much for GDP either.

There is one long term plus... de udder half was in the UK yesterday, apparently contacts in the university sector say their sci/tech research funding has crashed big time... one department to my knowledge was getting 15 mill in research funds in 2001.... down to 5 million now.

So the hi tech investment might get us a bit ahead of the competition next door..... especially as there is a big hole in Oxbridge's endowments right now.

I quite like what I've seen of it, although I can understand the fashion to deride it. It looks to me like the kind of plan that might make a 1-2% difference to the economy if it's actually carried through. After all, it's not new thinking as such, but the classic Irish growth strategy, and I didn't see any suggestion that we should grow the financial sector.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:36 am

ibis wrote:
I quite like what I've seen of it, although I can understand the fashion to deride it. It looks to me like the kind of plan that might make a 1-2% difference to the economy if it's actually carried through. After all, it's not new thinking as such, but the classic Irish growth strategy, and I didn't see any suggestion that we should grow the financial sector.
Fashion ? Where exactly is this thing - I can't get a copy of it anywhere by googling ..

Now, I do believe that Green initiatives have been neglected forever in this country - our concillors in Ennis are ignoring planners who are telling them not to go ahead with a commercial park on the outskirts near a river for example - and though I don't believe there are vast riches in pursuing a Green economic policy I have to feel very cynical about this but maybe it's the current economic climate and all the bad friggin news going on that's casting a shadow on it. Not to mention years and years of half-baked attempts by FF to do anything of infrastructural value here. Seriously - we have a rake of houses, some fairly decent roads, the Luas, 1 GW of wind power and really and truly not much else.

I do also like what the GP are doing with their website by listing their achievements so far so voters can actually see what class of doers as opposed to talkers they might be voting for. Despite the achievements of FF above, I don't feel it's at all something to be proud of that way too much of our drinking water isn't good quality, that our high electricity prices do not reflect our potential for natural energy production, that broadband hasn't been used by the Government at all in cutting those costs that the State takes on to give old age pensioners free phone bills etc. Even lately we're seeing our food traceability system is shaky as Bertie's constituency office stories.

But I and we generally should be feeling positive about this and we should be ready to grasp it and go for it and get into the groove and all that but it seems to have fallen a bit flat for everyone. Was it a poor PR job ? There isn't even a catchy or memorable name for it ... I'd like to see

details of energy targets,
details of present and projected statistics and spending on specific areas like apprenticeships,
stuff appearing like the Smart meter, more forests
a mechanism for input/feedback by the punters
a quarterly review of progress
commitment to environmental protection, preservation,
effort at enhancement of lacking systems - water, legal mechanisms, regulation
low-cost loans made available for Green tech like solar heating, mini-turbines

Culturally more than economically we could be in for a supremely rough ride - unemployment is heading for 10% and will go beyond it - reform of education entitlements for third level might not be a bad idea - what the hell are 400,000 unemployed people supposed to do over the next while ?
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:17 am

In the history Irish economic 'plans' (and there have been numerous notorious so-called plans; remember Haughey's "The Way Forward", anyone?) this one is the most pathetic, and that is saying a lot. 90% is just reheated ideas already announced, many of them already dead in the water. They are bland, ill-defined wish-lists, the equivalent of a farmer turning in to a weather forecast to find out if the weather will be right to bring in the hay, only to be told "we hope the weather will be fine but we have no actual idea what the weather will be like."

This so-called programme is simply a PR stunt. The government is being crucified in the media, crucified in the Dáil, crucified in the economy, crucified by the opposition and by economists. In effect this so-called plan is a PR stunt to give the impression they have a clue what they are doing. Employers organisations, unions, economists, the opposition and the media all agreed that the so-called plan is bag of hot air. There is only 1 thing that really is new and that is so pathetically ill-defined as to be a back-of-an-envellope bit of work. The whole so-called plan has the feel of a 'Jaysus, lads, lets throw something together to get the heat off us' stunt. It is a sign of just how inadequate this government is that they cannot even produce a PR stunt and get it to work right.

At this point the government is looking more pathetic by the day. Their big plan in the summer was some cutbacks, which turned out to be woefully inadequate. Their next big plan was to bring forward the budget, which proved a disaster as they were left guessing the final tax receipts for the big month of November and got it pathetically wrong. Their next big plan was this one, and it earned instant ridicule from everyone. The government looks more and more like a shower of incompetents out of their depth who haven't a clue what they are doing, and are lost at sea.

Quite frankly this so-called plan was a joke. But with the state of the economy, no-one is laughing. They make Laurel and Hardy look like intellectuals.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:39 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
Fashion ? Where exactly is this thing - I can't get a copy of it anywhere by googling ..

Here you go!
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:02 am

ibis wrote:
Here you go!

Thanks ibis. I'm not going to read it all tonight but I can see there is some meat in it. Will there be at least annual progress updates ?

Quote :
Action Area 3: Enhancing the Environment and Securing Energy Supplies

The EU has committed to reducing overall carbon emissions by 20% by 2020. Agreement on a climate change package in Copenhagen next year will further increase our responsibilities and we must plan for this transformation now. The International Energy Agency has also warned that the ‘era of cheap oil is over’. Ireland, which is over 90% reliant on imported fossil fuel, must alter this dangerous dependence. We need to protect our economy from future oil and gas supply shocks. Radically enhanced energy efficiency across all sectors of the economy, together with actions to diversify supply through investment in renewable energy will deliver reduced costs, reduced emissions and greater energy security.

The success of our economy is intimately related to how well we manage our environment. For example, tourism depends on high quality landscapes and built environments and certain high value-added parts of the food industry depend on Ireland’s ‘green image’ for competitive advantage. More fundamentally, for the purposes of this Framework, if we wish to keep talented Irish people working in Ireland, as well as attracting the most talented people from around the world to our shores, we cannot afford to offer a poor quality living environment. In addition, the environment and energy areas are beginning to provide very significant opportunities for industrial and enterprise development through Green Enterprise.
Key actions:

The Government will increase the production of renewable electricity in a cost-effective manner to meet the new increased target of 40% of electricity from renewable resources by 2020;

Over the next two years an estimated €400 million will be spent by the private sector building an additional 400mw of wind power to meet our 2010 target for 15% of our power to come from renewable electricity supplies;

EirGrid will spend €4 billion between now and 2025 building a new electricity transmission system to tap into renewable energy resources;

The ESB has set out its own zero emissions corporate plan for 2030 and a related €22 billion long term investment budget;

Bord Gáis have set out a €5 billion investment strategy to develop the gas network and clean energy technologies;

The East West interconnector will be completed in 2012 while planning further interconnection to the UK and the Continent;
17

A framework will be in place in early 2009 to support the development of auto-generation projects by large industry as well as micro-generation in the small business, agriculture and domestic level;

21,000 smart meters will be placed in Irish homes as a test project prior to the roll out of the new smart grid to every home in the country;

We will fast-track development and commercialisation of ocean energy technologies under the Ocean Energy Development Programme 2008-2012;

We will ensure that the Commission for Energy Regulation carries out a fundamental review of energy prices and tariff methodologies which will take account of the needs of all energy consumers including the need to support economic competitiveness:

We will progress restructuring of the electricity sector through finalisation of the CER / ESB Asset Divestment Strategy by end year and the transfer of the national transmission assets to EirGrid;

The consent process for energy developments on the foreshore will be modernised in 2009;

€30 million will be spent in 2009 helping the installation of better insulation in over 25,000 houses;

We are increasing the range of energy efficient equipment purchased by companies that can qualify for accelerated capital allowances, including energy efficient data-server systems and, vital in these times of high energy costs, electricity provision equipment and control systems;

We are pursuing national cycling and walking strategies and a cycling package for Dublin;

We will publish a National Sustainable Transport and Travel Action Plan early in 2009;

We will work towards our target of 10% of Ireland’s road transport fleet being electrically powered by 2020;

In the first quarter 2009 the Government will publish its National Energy Efficiency Action Plan including the targeted 33% improvement in energy efficiency in its own services by 2020;

Environmental considerations will be further integrated into the public procurement process in 2009, with the goal of bringing us in line with the best performers in Europe;

Current capital appraisal and cost-benefit analysis guidelines will be amended in early 2009 to incorporate best practice in reflecting the cost of CO2 emissions in cost benefit analyses;
18

An announcement on the issue of a Carbon Levy, assisted by recommendations of the Commission of Taxation, will be made in Budget 2010. Particular attention will be paid to ensuring that any Levy does not impact adversely on the most vulnerable or on the economy;

Further appropriate modifications to the motor tax system will be considered to encourage continuous improvements in the efficiency of the car fleet and to encourage a move from advanced plug-in hybrid vehicles to full electric vehicles;

The Irish Government will support measures at EU level to have a lower rate of VAT apply to eco-friendly products;

A high-level Action Group on Green Enterprise will report to Government within four months, setting out an Action Plan for developing green enterprise in Ireland;

We will continue to support the development of eco- and green tourism.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:23 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
ibis wrote:
Here you go!

Thanks ibis. I'm not going to read it all tonight but I can see there is some meat in it. Will there be at least annual progress updates ?

Quote :
Action Area 3: Enhancing the Environment and Securing Energy Supplies

The EU has committed to reducing overall carbon emissions by 20% by 2020. Agreement on a climate change package in Copenhagen next year will further increase our responsibilities and we must plan for this transformation now. The International Energy Agency has also warned that the ‘era of cheap oil is over’. Ireland, which is over 90% reliant on imported fossil fuel, must alter this dangerous dependence. We need to protect our economy from future oil and gas supply shocks. Radically enhanced energy efficiency across all sectors of the economy, together with actions to diversify supply through investment in renewable energy will deliver reduced costs, reduced emissions and greater energy security.

The success of our economy is intimately related to how well we manage our environment. For example, tourism depends on high quality landscapes and built environments and certain high value-added parts of the food industry depend on Ireland’s ‘green image’ for competitive advantage. More fundamentally, for the purposes of this Framework, if we wish to keep talented Irish people working in Ireland, as well as attracting the most talented people from around the world to our shores, we cannot afford to offer a poor quality living environment. In addition, the environment and energy areas are beginning to provide very significant opportunities for industrial and enterprise development through Green Enterprise.
Key actions:

The Government will increase the production of renewable electricity in a cost-effective manner to meet the new increased target of 40% of electricity from renewable resources by 2020;

No short or medium term commitment, just longterm waffle that was already.

Quote :


Over the next two years an estimated €400 million will be spent by the private sector building an additional 400mw of wind power to meet our 2010 target for 15% of our power to come from renewable electricity supplies;

Already promised. No clear figure. No government commitment, merely a statement that an estimated sum of money 'will' be spent, with no evidence that it will.

Quote :


EirGrid will spend €4 billion between now and 2025 building a new electricity transmission system to tap into renewable energy resources;

More weasel words. Money will be spent over the next 17 years (!!!). Already promised.

Quote :


The ESB has set out its own zero emissions corporate plan for 2030 and a related €22 billion long term investment budget;

So - a plan has been set out already. Nothing new there.

Quote :


Bord Gáis have set out a €5 billion investment strategy to develop the gas network and clean energy technologies;

An old story already announced.
Quote :


The East West interconnector will be completed in 2012 while planning further interconnection to the UK and the Continent;
17

Em . . . it was aleady announced. Not a single change there.

Quote :


A framework will be in place in early 2009 to support the development of auto-generation projects by large industry as well as micro-generation in the small business, agriculture and domestic level;

What sort of framework? What sort of details? When exactly in 2009? An classic example of government waffle without a single piece of specifics.

Quote :


21,000 smart meters will be placed in Irish homes as a test project prior to the roll out of the new smart grid to every home in the country;

We already were told that.
Quote :


We will fast-track development and commercialisation of ocean energy technologies under the Ocean Energy Development Programme 2008-2012;
Specifics? Detailed targets? An entire waffle promise.

Quote :


We will ensure that the Commission for Energy Regulation carries out a fundamental review of energy prices and tariff methodologies which will take account of the needs of all energy consumers including the need to support economic competitiveness:

Weasel word after weasel word. They will "ensure" a "review" to "take into account" . . . Rolling Eyes

Quote :


We will progress restructuring of the electricity sector through finalisation of the CER / ESB Asset Divestment Strategy by end year and the transfer of the national transmission assets to EirGrid;

How many more times is this going to be announced? It has been announced more times than Brittany Spears has had comebacks! clown

Quote :


The consent process for energy developments on the foreshore will be modernised in 2009;
Yet more reheated waffle. A "process" will be "modernised". No targets, definitions, etc. Laughing

Quote :


€30 million will be spent in 2009 helping the installation of better insulation in over 25,000 houses;
Yet another reheated statement of intent already announced.

Quote :


We are increasing the range of energy efficient equipment purchased by companies that can qualify for accelerated capital allowances, including energy efficient data-server systems and, vital in these times of high energy costs, electricity provision equipment and control systems;

Yet more weasel words. Increasing . . . range . . . that can quality. . . *yawn*. Increasing by how much, in what timespan, implemented how quickly? Rolling Eyes
Quote :


We are pursuing national cycling and walking strategies and a cycling package for Dublin;

Dear God, it gets worse. "pursuing . . . strategies". Any chance of specifics on anything?
Quote :


We will publish a National Sustainable Transport and Travel Action Plan early in 2009;

Ah yes. More decisiveness. They are going to publish an action plan at any unspecified month in 2009. Well at least this one doesn't promise to do something within 17 years. Razz

Quote :


We will work towards our target of 10% of Ireland’s road transport fleet being electrically powered by 2020;

Great and decisive government. It promises to 'work towards' an already announced target over the next 12 years. Rolling Eyes

Quote :


In the first quarter 2009 the Government will publish its National Energy Efficiency Action Plan including the targeted 33% improvement in energy efficiency in its own services by 2020;

So the government's plan is . . . um . . . to publish a plan! affraid
Quote :

Environmental considerations will be further integrated into the public procurement process in 2009, with the goal of bringing us in line with the best performers in Europe;

'Considerations' will be 'integrated' . . . 'with the goal of' . Sleep

Quote :


Current capital appraisal and cost-benefit analysis guidelines will be amended in early 2009 to incorporate best practice in reflecting the cost of CO2 emissions in cost benefit analyses;

Oh goodie. Guidelines will be amended. Basketball That's how you solve international economic collapses - amend guidelines sometime in the next few months to do something or other but without actually saying what specifically you will be doing.

Quote :


An announcement on the issue of a Carbon Levy, assisted by recommendations of the Commission of Taxation, will be made in Budget 2010. Particular attention will be paid to ensuring that any Levy does not impact adversely on the most vulnerable or on the economy;

Ah yes. The solution to all our crises - lets have an 'announcement' based on 'recommendations' that pay 'particular attention' to something. Who wrote this shite? Sir Humphrey?

Quote :


Further appropriate modifications to the motor tax system will be considered to encourage continuous improvements in the efficiency of the car fleet and to encourage a move from advanced plug-in hybrid vehicles to full electric vehicles;

Yippee. "Further appropriate modifications' to encourage 'continuous improvements'! What a Face Jesus. It is like an episode of Yes Minister!!!

Quote :


The Irish Government will support measures at EU level to have a lower rate of VAT apply to eco-friendly products;

Is the government committed to introducing measures? No. Championing measures? No. Proposing measures? No. It will 'support measures'. Sleep
Quote :


A high-level Action Group on Green Enterprise will report to Government within four months, setting out an Action Plan for developing green enterprise in Ireland;

Ah yes. When the going gets tough. . . get a report from a 'high level action group' setting out an 'action plan'. Basketball
Quote :


We will continue to support the development of eco- and green tourism.
So in other words, more waffle, repeating an already delivered promise but with no meat in the promise any all.

In total, the list consists of

- long term actions plans with no specifics
- short term action plans with no specifics
- promises to do something, without saying what, when or how.
- promises of bureaucratic changes to faciitate changes in bureaucracy that will . . . um . . . do God knows what specifically.

There are no plans laid down in terms of
- specific goals
- specific timetables
- specific aims
- definitive commitments.

I know that the Greens like recycling but the degree of recycling of old empty promises for the umpteenth time is mindboggling.

We know FF are past masters at it (Remember how everything to FF is declared a 'priority' at election times!) But the Greens are rapidly catching up on them with the weasel words and empty soundbites. They are becoming more Fianna Fáil than Fianna Fáil themselves!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:03 am

Bit pressed for time but at a glance this looks to me like it was written by the Greens. I wonder what exactly was the FF input? And if FF can make no meaningful input what is its purpose remaining in government?

It is difficult for any government to stimulate growth. For growth to happen you need investment and for investment you need confidence of a return, security of investment or control of that investment.

Many people cannot effectively invest as they have limited amounts of spare cash. Not many can raise the tens of millions needed for larger projects but many have from a few hundred to tens of thousands. Many have skills that are of value and some a few acres or a corner of land. Someone would do well to consider how you get local communities to invest in their own community. As with tax the money is with Mr Average not the large developers.

You have to ask what sort of Ireland do you want and I would have thought that it is important that the Irish own more and more of the wealth generated and that that wealth and opportunity be dispersed. I say this from a one Nation Conservative perspective and not a Socialist one. It is simply more equitable and more secure if opportunity is spread. It is also about trying to use all the resources available.

They should be supporting the Credit Unions as much as (more than to hell with the failed) the Banks, encouraging COOPs, encouraging rural diversification and business start-ups.

I keep banging on about forestry. It is insane that a country like Ireland with so much unproductive land is importing timber from Finland. You don't need 200 year oaks and hardwoods you can start with the material for particle boards and plywood and other laminated products. It would take about 30 years, to really get going, but won't happen unless we invest. Are we getting value added out of our existing agricultural resources and produce?

Another one I keep going on about is about the link between integrity, confidence and investment. You need confidence to invest and for that you need to set extremely high standards for those in government, in public life and in financial regulation. Government ministers must take responsibility for their departments and must resign if there are problems to clear their name or to allow the Department to be cleansed effectively. If the Minister has had to resign then it is a lot easier to land on the Civil Servants as well.

It is unbelievable the hypocrisy and twaddle that is accepted, NO actually condoned. Politicians who are running around with suitcases and money and memory lapses should be regarded as being beneath contempt, but no they are venerated because they are one of ours and not one of theirs. Some even get State funerals. Cut the hypocrisy, cut the cronyism (Ireland is up to its neck in it) and deal with these issues effectively and you have the potential for building an effective financial sector. Fall on white collar fraud.

Ethics and inclusion are extremely important in building a robust economy.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:16 am

Papal Knight wrote:
Quote :

The consent process for energy developments on the foreshore will be modernised in 2009;
Yet more reheated waffle. A "process" will be "modernised". No targets, definitions, etc. Laughing

Quote :

Ryan plans to fast-track energy developments
Sunday Business Post 21st December 2008

The government plans to reform the planning process in order to fast track energy-related developments worth €16 billion.

The reform of foreshore planning will speed up offshore renewable energy projects and connections to the electricity grid using the current oil and gas licensing process.

The move comes after the government’s plan for economic recovery, which was launched last week, highlighted the future importance of renewable energy. The changes to the planning process have been drafted into a bill by the Oireachtas joint committee on climate change and energy security, which has been sent to Eamon Ryan, the Minister for Communications,Energy and Natural Resources. It envisages bringing offshore renewable energy projects within the scope of the Planning and Development (Strategic Infrastructure) Act, 2006.This should ensure that planning decisions on offshore renewable energy projects are made within a year. It is the first time that an Oireachtas committee has drafted a bill to be forwarded to the government. Under its terms, the Marine Institute would be given new roles and responsibilities, such as the preparation of strategic area assessments for designated areas and the power to grant leases for offshore renewable energy projects.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:50 pm

I think people need to feel the government has a plan. It doesn't matter what the plan is (as long as its not to build more apartments) but they have to be seen to have a plan, as a confidence boosting measure.
And I'm refering to confidence in the economy rather than solely the government.

Sure this is mostly reheated announcements from this year's budget, and the previous budget. But did you really expect a new budget?

Anything positive that was announced in the last year got lost in hype over Bertie and the Budget cutbacks. So I can forgive them announcing this stuff again.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:54 pm

The Innovation Ireland (Venture Capital) Fund is both new and welcome.

€500m doesn't sound like much though.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:05 pm

500 million over such a long period is nothing. There is a guy in our Church who presides over a research grant of 30 million alone... which puts in context how much individual projects need funding. Chuck Feeney's Atlantic Philantropies (a private body) has given nearly double that to Irish research over a period less than 10 years, which is the envisaged timescale of the Government's plan. This is one of the things that the Government doesn't like to highlight. Whilst alot of money has gone into research in Ireland, the vast majority of it has not been from the Government.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:35 pm

John, I see the point you are making, but this is venture capital money. Its a bit different to the usual R&D money which would go mainly to universities.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:47 pm

There was a discussion on P.ie early in the year about how the the findings of research are not getting taken up because Universities don't understand the costs involved in taking something production, and expect to be paid unrealistic amounts.

Government has been putting money into research, but a change of culture may be needed before the results show in the economy.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:58 pm

Should all research in University have to be for something marketable or producible?

I don't think it is that university reseachers don't understand how to make a product. Its just that making a product isn't their goal to begin with.
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PostSubject: Re: Government plan to revive the Economy announced -Research and Development in Ireland   Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:39 pm

eoinmn wrote:
Should all research in University have to be for something marketable or producible?

I don't think it is that university reseachers don't understand how to make a product. Its just that making a product isn't their goal to begin with.


NO, that wasn't the problem. Good research was being done, people were wanting to buy, but University management was looking for much too much money from the buyers.
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