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 Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies

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PostSubject: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:27 am

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1218/breaking92.htm
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:30 am

[mod] Moved to An Reilig [/mod]

No pun intended.

The p.ie thread
http://www.politics.ie/current-affairs/39118-conor-cruise-obrien-dies.html


Last edited by Auditor #9 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:32 am

A man of great conviction and true integrity.
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:35 am

I disagreed with him on many things, particularly over the north and Israel - but he was a courageous and thoughtful individual ,wasn't afraid of calling it as he saw it and an absolute gent who I had the pleasure of running into a few times over the years.

My condolences to his family
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:30 am

johnfás wrote:
A man of great conviction and true integrity.

My sympathy to his family, I would have seen eye to eye to him on very little concerning the constitutional position on this Island but would accept he was entitled to his opinion and worked hard to further his ideals. However, John, care to explain how someone who went to extraordinary lenghts to cover up the disgraceful truth behind the Dublin and Monaghan bombings could be described as a man of true integrity? His involvement with several questionable shades of northern Unionism was entirely up to him but downright corruption of the legal process is an attack on the basic fabric of society. I shouldn't worry about libel at this point either.
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:34 am

lukedelmege wrote:
johnfás wrote:
A man of great conviction and true integrity.

My sympathy to his family, I would have seen eye to eye to him on very little concerning the constitutional position on this Island but would accept he was entitled to his opinion and worked hard to further his ideals. However, John, care to explain how someone who went to extraordinary lenghts to cover up the disgraceful truth behind the Dublin and Monaghan bombings could be described as a man of true integrity? His involvement with several questionable shades of northern Unionism was entirely up to him but downright corruption of the legal process is an attack on the basic fabric of society. I shouldn't worry about libel at this point either.

I don't have to agree with him on everything to be of the opinion that he was a man of integrity. He made a commendable contribution to the United Nations as well as Irish Politics in his stand against militant republicanism which constituted a real threat to the Irish State. Furthermore, his stance on contraception and divorce were instrumental at a time when it was not politically expedient to do so.

You cannot defame the dead under current Irish law. Somewhat unfortunately. It will change if the Defamation Bill passes, which seems unlikely at the moment.


Last edited by johnfás on Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:43 am

johnfás wrote:
lukedelmege wrote:
johnfás wrote:
A man of great conviction and true integrity.

My sympathy to his family, I would have seen eye to eye to him on very little concerning the constitutional position on this Island but would accept he was entitled to his opinion and worked hard to further his ideals. However, John, care to explain how someone who went to extraordinary lenghts to cover up the disgraceful truth behind the Dublin and Monaghan bombings could be described as a man of true integrity? His involvement with several questionable shades of northern Unionism was entirely up to him but downright corruption of the legal process is an attack on the basic fabric of society. I shouldn't worry about libel at this point either.

I don't have to agree with him on everything to be of the opinion that he was a man of integrity. He made a commendable contribution to the United Nations as well as Irish Politics in his stand against militant republicanism which constituted a real threat to the Irish State.

You cannot defame the dead under current Irish law. Somewhat unfortunately. It will change if the Defamation Bill passes, which seems unlikely at the moment.

His stand against Republican violence was in stark contrast to his compliance with British inspired terrorism in the Irish Republic and his apologism for loyalist murder. I'll respect his family in their time of bereavement by going no further but would ask you to show the same respect by not lauding someone whose actions were so painful for the relatives of many of your fellow countrymen.
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:45 am

I was unaware that my opinion on a person's integrity was to be determined by another's. You might extend me the privelege of my own opinion,sire.


Last edited by johnfás on Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:45 am

johnfás wrote:
lukedelmege wrote:
johnfás wrote:
A man of great conviction and true integrity.

My sympathy to his family, I would have seen eye to eye to him on very little concerning the constitutional position on this Island but would accept he was entitled to his opinion and worked hard to further his ideals. However, John, care to explain how someone who went to extraordinary lenghts to cover up the disgraceful truth behind the Dublin and Monaghan bombings could be described as a man of true integrity? His involvement with several questionable shades of northern Unionism was entirely up to him but downright corruption of the legal process is an attack on the basic fabric of society. I shouldn't worry about libel at this point either.

I don't have to agree with him on everything to be of the opinion that he was a man of integrity. He made a commendable contribution to the United Nations as well as Irish Politics in his stand against militant republicanism which constituted a real threat to the Irish State.

You cannot defame the dead under current Irish law. Somewhat unfortunately. It will change if the Defamation Bill passes, which seems unlikely at the moment.

And the bombing of Dublin and Monaghan didn't constitue a threat to the Irish state.

RIP to the family but i'm really biting my tongue here.
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:47 am

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:

And the bombing of Dublin and Monaghan didn't constitue a threat to the Irish state.

Is that your opinion? It isn't mine. I didn't say it.
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:51 am

johnfás wrote:
SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:

And the bombing of Dublin and Monaghan didn't constitue a threat to the Irish state.

Is that your opinion? It isn't mine. I didn't say it.

Who said you said it? And Lukedelmege asked you to consider other people's feelings. He didn't tell you what your opinions were
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:24 am

I only have a patchy knowledge of Conor Cruise O'Brien's history. Is there a good account of him that anyone would recommend?
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:34 am

cactus flower wrote:
I only have a patchy knowledge of Conor Cruise O'Brien's history. Is there a good account of him that anyone would recommend?

I'm tempted but I won't....Id say you'll get bagfulls of info from very different sources over the coming days...
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:41 am

lukedelmege wrote:
johnfás wrote:
A man of great conviction and true integrity.

My sympathy to his family, I would have seen eye to eye to him on very little concerning the constitutional position on this Island but would accept he was entitled to his opinion and worked hard to further his ideals. However, John, care to explain how someone who went to extraordinary lenghts to cover up the disgraceful truth behind the Dublin and Monaghan bombings could be described as a man of true integrity? His involvement with several questionable shades of northern Unionism was entirely up to him but downright corruption of the legal process is an attack on the basic fabric of society. I shouldn't worry about libel at this point either.

Perhaps we can also have an investigation into Bloody Friday, La Mon and Enniskillen as well. I wouldn't have agreed with CCOB on some things and certainly not his support of Bob McCartney's outfit but some things very much needed to be said at a time in the 1970s when the IRA lost the run of itself and indulged itself in war crimes and sectarian assassination. That's my 2c anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:16 am

Ronald Binge wrote:
lukedelmege wrote:
johnfás wrote:
A man of great conviction and true integrity.

My sympathy to his family, I would have seen eye to eye to him on very little concerning the constitutional position on this Island but would accept he was entitled to his opinion and worked hard to further his ideals. However, John, care to explain how someone who went to extraordinary lenghts to cover up the disgraceful truth behind the Dublin and Monaghan bombings could be described as a man of true integrity? His involvement with several questionable shades of northern Unionism was entirely up to him but downright corruption of the legal process is an attack on the basic fabric of society. I shouldn't worry about libel at this point either.

Perhaps we can also have an investigation into Bloody Friday, La Mon and Enniskillen as well. I wouldn't have agreed with CCOB on some things and certainly not his support of Bob McCartney's outfit but some things very much needed to be said at a time in the 1970s when the IRA lost the run of itself and indulged itself in war crimes and sectarian assassination. That's my 2c anyway.

Did he stifle investigations into these events as well?.......truely shocking
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:08 am

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

I see that Sidewinder got banned for voicing his opinions. Too bad as he was one of only 3 leftist posters that understood the economic scene as far as I am concerned
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:43 am

RIP. And condolences to his family. My opinion of him was that he was a man of robust principles, which were never far from controversy. His s31 was very controversial as was his support for McCartneys strain of unionism. I rarely agreed with him but I will concede that he was one of the first to recognise the enormous damage Haughey did to politics in the republic not so much by what he did in office but what he brought to office. Haughey ushered in an era of very, and dangerously, low standards in public life, the consequences of which are still blighting public life today. Haughey casualised the notion of corruption until it became so commonplace as to become an accepted norm in Irish society. We still accept it. And Cruise O'Brien wrote extensively on this danger in the 1980s.

He was like the curates egg, good in parts, not so good in other parts but he was a democrat and thus deserving of a certain respect and he had earned that certain respect from me.

Ar Dheis Dé go raibh a anam.
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:50 am

youngdan wrote:
Good riddance to bad rubbish.

I see that Sidewinder got banned for voicing his opinions. Too bad as he was one of only 3 leftist posters that understood the economic scene as far as I am concerned

You're a gas man danny boy. By the way, who are the other two lefty posters who understand economics? Very Happy I'm beginning to think most, if not all righties, haven't a feckin' clue.

As for the topic. Silence is golden.
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:50 am

It is good to have you back Rocky.

I saw one lad saying that Quinn's losses in Anglo were only paper losses just now on the CEO resigning thread. That is sad.

The other 2 were Akrasia who seems to be gone. He took a dislike to me for some reason and I can't understand why.

The other was Cael. He is a dissident republican I guess and is over at pin. He has a great understanding of the Fed and the history of central banking. Even though I disagree with him on some things as regards left right I agree with him that it is central banking and fractional banking that is the problem

I have a very high opinion of Sidewinder and if he comes this way it would boost the site.

These lads are extreme left and I am not talking about the posters here who are regular socialists or the middle of the road posters here who I enjoy reading.



I am not bothering venting about the dead man either
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:57 am

rockyracoon wrote:
youngdan wrote:
Good riddance to bad rubbish.

I see that Sidewinder got banned for voicing his opinions. Too bad as he was one of only 3 leftist posters that understood the economic scene as far as I am concerned

You're a gas man danny boy. By the way, who are the other two lefty posters who understand economics? Very Happy I'm beginning to think most, if not all righties, haven't a feckin' clue.

As for the topic. Silence is golden.

Not a million miles from the truth there, rocky. Neo-liberalism has brought us this disaster but, apart from Harney and McCreevy, who are instinctive Thatcherists rather than educated ones, it is hard to think of any Irish politician who has a vague understanding of economics, apart of course from Bruton (Richard).

But look who we have in the top 3 jobs. Taoiseach, Tanaiste and Finance Minister have had seats in the Dail bequeathed to them. They never had to fight for it. And it shows.
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:56 pm

Garret Fitzgerald remembers him on Morning Ireland this morning
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1219/morningireland_av.html?2465627,null,209
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:53 pm

youngdan wrote:
It is good to have you back Rocky.

I saw one lad saying that Quinn's losses in Anglo were only paper losses just now on the CEO resigning thread. That is sad.

The other 2 were Akrasia who seems to be gone. He took a dislike to me for some reason and I can't understand why.

The other was Cael. He is a dissident republican I guess and is over at pin. He has a great understanding of the Fed and the history of central banking. Even though I disagree with him on some things as regards left right I agree with him that it is central banking and fractional banking that is the problem

I have a very high opinion of Sidewinder and if he comes this way it would boost the site.

These lads are extreme left and I am not talking about the posters here who are regular socialists or the middle of the road posters here who I enjoy reading.



I am not bothering venting about the dead man either
I believe Akrasia is to be found on the Boards.ie forum, among the atheists.

As for Himself, well childish slagging isn't my forte. God rest him and condolences where due.
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:34 pm

I agree 905, childish slagging must be set aside.
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:45 pm

youngdan wrote:
Good riddance to bad rubbish.

I see that Sidewinder got banned for voicing his opinions. Too bad as he was one of only 3 leftist posters that understood the economic scene as far as I am concerned

Sidewinder got banned from where!?
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PostSubject: Re: Conor Cruise O'Brien Dies   Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:11 am

He got banned from P.ie. I think this is wrong as he was there from 2004. This carry on of some wanker dying and everyone praising him and crying has got to stop.

I am not talking about O Brien but every tom dick and harry. This is a mental illness. When Haughey died that half wit gave him a state funeral at a fair expense when everybody knew he was a low life debauching thief. Who gave a bollix about his wife when he didn't himself and was riding all round him.

This feminised clap-trap and foolishness has got to a point where even Mao is a good guy.

Of course when the Austrian guy got killed the rules were different and he was a homosexual maggot. Nobody was worried about the feelings of his wife and family.

If republicans want to give out about CCOB let them
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