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 Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign

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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:55 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
Edo wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
eoinmn wrote:
The Independent reports today that the Regulator will be asked to resign in January.

He should be defenestrated now. He has been a failure in that role. He has let the trust in our financial system collapse on his watch. The greatest crisis in Irish finance will be his legacy. He should be out of that job now and replaced by someone who is actually competent in the position.

And the Entire board of Anglo Irish, Aib,B of I, the entire Financial regulators office and the Central Bank Governor - imcompetence and lying all around and we only find out about stuff when the shit hits the fan.

off with their heads the lot of them - only then will we see the real rotten corrupt core of the Irish Financial industry and system.

We do indeed need to clean house in the Irish banking system. The top management at every bank should be shorn of the reprobates who led their banks into this mess, there should be sackings in the Financial Regulator and there should be a shake-out in the Department of Finance.

Cowen was Minister for Finance during that time - this is the first head which should roll.

Well that would take some doing, reforming the management teams of the banks, the regulators and the Department will be easier than getting rid of an Taoiseach.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:40 pm

Prof Morgan Kelly of UCD reckons it would be as well to incinerate the €1,500,000,000 in Stephens Green as to give it to Anglo.

He says that typically banks in a bubble bust experience a 20 percent bad debt rate with developer loans. That comes to €15,000,000,000 if it applies to Anglo. In that scenario our pension money will vaporise in months.

Kelly also describes the three stages in the endgame of a bank's collapse. Not pretty.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1223/1229728473144.html
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:16 pm

That's shocking stuff alright! (and it may not be the only bank ... )

from that piece
Quote :
By using taxpayers' money to acquire Anglo Irish's portfolio of dingy shopping centres and derelict development sites, the Government is squandering scarce resources that are needed elsewhere. Just as the State is putting too much money into Anglo Irish, it is putting in too little to recapitalise AIB and Bank of Ireland on which, whether you like it or not, large sectors of the Irish economy depend.

So much for the future. Right now, in the "nothing in the last six months has really happened" world of the Government, the bailout of Anglo Irish follows a compelling political logic. Anglo Irish funds developers, and developers fund Fianna Fáil.

Apparently on Morning Ireland yesterday, Lenihan referred to the Pension Fund as NOT being taxpayers' money. How did we think it was - sure isn't it Fianna Fáil's money ??

Lenihan on the bank bailout using FF's money. (haven't listened, just heard this on Pat Kenny so sorry if wrong)
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1222/morningireland_av.html?2466438,null,209

The Recapitalisation articles on Morning Ireland yesterday
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1222/morningireland_av.html?2466413,null,209
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:27 pm

The arrhythmia of a dying bank.



There is not even any real guarantee that the Anglo bailout will see it's way through to the businesses that need it.

Why not give it to the Industrial Credit Company, or some suchlike, for distribution via overdraft facilities to businesses that need it.

Anglo should be let go.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:27 pm

That makes for grim reading alright.

Basically, if we do not eject Anglo from the guarantee scheme in the next few weeks, the whole country is going bankrupt. Or to put it more succinctly, the whole county is going bankrupt.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:32 pm

How are the Greens standing over this monumental theft?
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:41 pm

coc wrote:
How are the Greens standing over this monumental theft?
Your other post is scary - it conjures up Icelandic images of IMF intervention, 18% interest rates. Dan Boyle has been making some noise on ejecting the Regulator from the system but other than that I don't know... perhaps the Dáil needs to be reconvened immediately and that Bank Guarantee undone.

Whatever about the Greens remember the entire Dáil voted to put that noose of the Bank Guarantee around all our necks.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:54 pm

Yes, but that was an emegency middle of the night job. We've had months now to tease out the implications and it is clear we can't afford to not cut Anglo loose.

Even if Seán Fitz had not been exposed the Gov should be frantically looking for get out clauses. With him exposed, it's a no-brainer. Expel them from the guarantee now. The share price collapse alone suggests the market expects this eventually anyway. Save us the €1.5bil and tell them they are on their own.

I know lawyers are not economists, but they are lawyers and they surely had a few get-out-of-jail-free-cards in the deck when they drafted the guarantee. If not, we are all banjaxed. Iceland banjaxed. 30% unemployment. 30% emigration.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:58 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
coc wrote:
How are the Greens standing over this monumental theft?
Your other post is scary - it conjures up Icelandic images of IMF intervention, 18% interest rates. Dan Boyle has been making some noise on ejecting the Regulator from the system but other than that I don't know... perhaps the Dáil needs to be reconvened immediately and that Bank Guarantee undone.

Whatever about the Greens remember the entire Dáil voted to put that noose of the Bank Guarantee around all our necks.
Audi,I think that the Labour Party voted against that.Now if only they could jettison their associaton with that shower of sociable partners aka the bearded wing of IBEC.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:04 pm

coc wrote:
Yes, but that was an emegency middle of the night job. We've had months now to tease out the implications and it is clear we can't afford to not cut Anglo loose.

Even if Seán Fitz had not been exposed the Gov should be frantically looking for get out clauses. With him exposed, it's a no-brainer. Expel them from the guarantee now. The share price collapse alone suggests the market expects this eventually anyway. Save us the €1.5bil and tell them they are on their own.

I know lawyers are not economists, but they are lawyers and they surely had a few get-out-of-jail-free-cards in the deck when they drafted the guarantee. If not, we are all banjaxed. Iceland banjaxed. 30% unemployment. 30% emigration.
Well Anglo's results came out on 10th December .. I don't remember if PWC made a faithful assessment of them during the Guarantee fiasco. We had a poll here on whether it was a disaster/not disaster and it got fewer reponses than other polls and they were about equal - so even intellectuals like us aren't really that sure Wink -- or do we really have all the info and details and even the interest.

People it seems are failing to make the connection between these things - budget, bailouts, bank guarantee. Our budget will be crippling next year if we end up having to borrow 20 billion on top of what we will have to borrow anyway.

But maybe we're jumping the gun - maybe the guarantee has details in it that make provision for the kind of disaster that may be lying between the pages of the Anglo loan books ?


Last edited by Auditor #9 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:04 pm

coc wrote:
..
Even if Seán Fitz had not been exposed the Gov should be frantically looking for get out clauses. With him exposed, it's a no-brainer. Expel them from the guarantee now. The share price collapse alone suggests the market expects this eventually anyway. Save us the €1.5bil and tell them they are on their own.
...

I think that's right coc. The share price is bombing again today, it would seem that investors have already decided it is a dead duck and that the Gov will more than likely renege on this and cut Anglo off.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:07 pm

They're not going to cut them off. The fear is that they will nationalise them or force a fire-sale merger.

Personally, I think it is probably a good time to invest in them as it goes against all the conventional wisdom of the investment community who have been shown to be completely wrong on most things.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:17 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
coc wrote:
How are the Greens standing over this monumental theft?
Your other post is scary - it conjures up Icelandic images of IMF intervention, 18% interest rates. Dan Boyle has been making some noise on ejecting the Regulator from the system but other than that I don't know... perhaps the Dáil needs to be reconvened immediately and that Bank Guarantee undone.

Whatever about the Greens remember the entire Dáil voted to put that noose of the Bank Guarantee around all our necks.
Shrill calls for the baldie head of Mr.Nearly are gaining momentum.
However imho this does not address the more deep-rooted ,nay systemic problem which underpins the forecastable splatter that is at this moment,a work-in-progress.
By all means let the man resign.
This will not remove the collapsible and corruptible framework of benign Financial Regulation which toothlessly nibbles at the malignant and chubby-arsed Irish Banking Industry.
Hardly surprising when one considers the input of the Regulatees into the creation of their regulations.One step ahead of the Regulator indeed.
Welcome to A nightmare on Regulation Street.State Guaranteed to make you laugh and cry.Coming soon to a multiplex car park near you...
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:34 pm

powderfinger wrote:
....the collapsible and corruptible framework of benign Financial Regulation which toothlessly nibbles at the malignant and chubby-arsed Irish Banking Industry...

Excellent image of ineffective incompetence.
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PostSubject: Tweedledum...   Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:24 pm

Ministers blaming bankers for their reckless speculative lending is like one identical twin claiming the other twin had different parents.

Bill Hobbs in the Examiner today.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:04 pm

Morgan Kelly - from the link above:

Quote :
In the final stage, as the bank slides over the brink of collapse, senior managers loot its assets. Looting a bank involves nothing so unsubtle or easily traceable as driving away with carloads of cash.

Instead, each bank has a filing cabinet with personal guarantees written by borrowers and deeds to property pledged as collateral (large property deals involve surprisingly little paperwork); and these documents have a tendency to find their way into the briefcases of departing executives who can later negotiate their return to their original owners.

I would like to know what transactions were made by bank executives and Directors in the week before the Guarantee.

The Government is hand in glove with these thieves.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:13 pm

all that stuff morgan kelly stated should be theft and as such should be pursued by the gardai.

any directors transactions prior to guarantee should be classified as insider dealing and again subject to criminal proceedings.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:50 pm

They used to say that to have a revolution, you had to oust the Professors. In our case, the professors are the ones telling it like it is.

Our government is spinning us fairytales as they cover for their paymasters.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:10 pm

Anglo closed at 18.4 today, market cap. €140mil. There Brian, the market has spoken. Kill this pig now.

If the government give these cowboys €1.5bil. I shall be very very unhappy.

Morgan Kelly (above) has basically accused the Min. of Fin. of gross incompetence and flagrant corruption.

My main hope is that Anglo will have collapsed before they can receive their share of the 'Socialism for Bankers Scheme'.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:18 pm

Lest we get confused, and think that we are dealing with a few bad apples in the FF camp, I'd like to draw attention to Ruari Quinn's interview this week on RTE in which he stoutly defended the propriety of appointing people who "have delivered leaflets to get me elected" as heads of State Boards etc.

This man cannot envisage politics without a payoff.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:18 pm

I look forward to reading this thread after my pet is fed which comes after myself being fed.

The 7 billion is gone from whoever owned it to it's new owners.

Don't they know it's Christmastime.

Where is Geld-off to sing a song
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:22 pm

The poster who mentioned property, banks and Fianna Fail in the same breath was onto it. We had a government run for the benefit of property developers for quite some time. Even the "emergency budget" of the Autumn had the developers and bankers trade mark stamped all over it.

Mr. Fitzpatrick said cut the medical card for OAPs and lo and behold it was cut.

Don't anyone believe for one minute that there is anything remaining of "common good" in the motivation of the governing clique.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:29 pm

cactus flower wrote:
... I'd like to draw attention to Ruari Quinn's interview this week on RTE in which he stoutly defended the propriety of appointing people who "have delivered leaflets to get me elected" as heads of State Boards etc.

This man cannot envisage politics without a payoff.
I heard that too. He seemed to think there was some huge difference between him doing that and Bertie appointing his mates, specifically Joe Burke. I think the point he was trying to make was that Labour party appointees aren't thickos, as if that could in some way make up for the inherent corruption!
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:20 pm

cactus flower wrote:
The poster who mentioned property, banks and Fianna Fail in the same breath was onto it. We had a government run for the benefit of property developers for quite some time. Even the "emergency budget" of the Autumn had the developers and bankers trade mark stamped all over it.

Mr. Fitzpatrick said cut the medical card for OAPs and lo and behold it was cut.

Don't anyone believe for one minute that there is anything remaining of "common good" in the motivation of the governing clique.

Nope. Not unless we apply a very strained meaning to the word ''common''.
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PostSubject: Re: Chairman and Chief Executive of Anglo Irish Bank Resign   Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:14 am

coc wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
... I'd like to draw attention to Ruari Quinn's interview this week on RTE in which he stoutly defended the propriety of appointing people who "have delivered leaflets to get me elected" as heads of State Boards etc.

This man cannot envisage politics without a payoff.
I heard that too. He seemed to think there was some huge difference between him doing that and Bertie appointing his mates, specifically Joe Burke. I think the point he was trying to make was that Labour party appointees aren't thickos, as if that could in some way make up for the inherent corruption!

Sorry but what exactly was Ruairi Quinn saying - was it on Pat Kenny or someone ?
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