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 The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /

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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:25 pm

youngdan wrote:
That is why ye are at 2% in the latest poll you scoundral. The early Americans wanted to be federalists too and now they have a King


I do not know whether the ECB ever issued it's own bonds. It would not surprise me what they get up to.

You must be confusing me with a Green party supporter. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:53 pm

I am Johnny. I almost added "despite the fact of you being a nice guy"

The confusion is cleared as you are a member of the only party that ever had an ounce of sense back there.

Perhaps your more than excellent effort of the cynide incedent planted a green seed in my mind
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:00 am

Man of Truth watches I.O.U.S.A and makes some notes. He also makes some predictions: This year will see the Dumping of the Dollar and the 30 year Bond (yielding 3% now) will get crushed, yielding double what it is now by the end of 2009 and double that again by the end of 2010. (Hopefully Man of Truth himself won't collapse)

9:43


yahoo msg board comments about i.o.u.s.a. :

Watch i.o.u.s.a. then call your congressman

And tell them to watch it! - The same Congress that promoted corporate crime & gave bankers's a "don't ask, don't tell" Bank-er Bailout...and (rightfully) lectured Big 3 execs about lack of business acumen, fiscal responsibility and accountability, compliant's about executive perks. We are $53 TRILLION dollars in debt...$184,000 owed by every man, woman, and child...Infrastructure and Jobs??? We can't even afford the interest on the debt owed to foriegn contries. (The reality...In 8 years...BUSH borrowed more $$$$ from foreign countries than ALL 42 Presidents COMBINED!- By FAR!)- Or just foregt it and watch American Idol.

http://economistmom.com/2009/01/watch-iousa-on-cnn-today-sunday/
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:08 am

This jet-setting financial guy reckons that T-bills and other bonds will fail in May or June this year and there will be nasty inflationary consequences in the U.S. and U.K. He thinks China will refuse to buy them, will dump their dollars and then issue bonds of their own.

He says if you have lots of money now, buy gold. If you haven't, buy something to trade... cigarettes, chocolate, scotch ...

11 mins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-RGqzIMFJ0
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:44 pm

This article sounds quite strange in the context of all the doom and gloom. I'm not qualified to critique it at all but it's interesting:

The Most Intense Period Of The Recession Is Behind Us


Brian S. Wesbury and Robert Stein

An account of some reassuring numbers.


Friday's jobs report was awful, but contrary to popular belief does
not signal the death of the consumer. This notion--that fewer people
working means less consumption--has become conventional wisdom. And
those who believe this think government "stimulus" is the only way to
prevent an economic bloodbath.
It's easy to get dour in the
current economic environment. Along with the sharp decline in jobs
during December, total hours worked plummeted 1.1%, in large part due
to a sudden spike upward in the number of workers who want to work
full-time but who can only find part-time jobs. Except for an unusual
East Coast blizzard in 1996, this was the biggest drop in total hours
worked since 1982. And since December saw some of the worst snowstorms
to hit the U.S. in decades, it is possible the weather again played a
role.
Despite this, hourly wages rose 0.3% in December and were up 3.7%
from December 2007. With the Consumer Price Index (CPI) expected to
decline by 1.2% in December (data released this Friday), real (or,
inflation-adjusted) wages likely increased 1.5%. Moreover, those real
wages are likely up 4.8% from a year-ago, the fastest increase since
1972.In addition, the real purchasing power of workers' cash
earnings (total hours multiplied by real hourly earnings) actually
increased by about 0.3% in December, putting it about 0.1% ahead of
where it was a year ago. In other words, declines in energy prices, as
well as some other prices, have roughly offset the damage to consumer
purchasing power caused by job cuts and fewer hours for the remaining
workforce.
Surely, major job cuts will continue to put downward
pressure on earnings for at least the next few months. However, the
decline in gasoline prices alone is saving consumers $410 billion in
annual expenditures. In size, on an annual basis, this is similar to
the government "stimulus" measures now under consideration. And instead
of the money being allocated along political lines, sometimes by
cumbersome bureaucracies, the money immediately gets into consumers'
pockets. The drop in energy prices, which will keep the CPI in negative
territory for months to come, combined with moderate wage gains
(generated by productivity growth), will continue to offset any decline
in purchasing power due to falling employment.Meanwhile, despite
the fear (some of which is stoked by political salesmanship) that the
U.S. faces the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression,
initial claims for unemployment insurance have fallen dramatically,
from 589,000 the week before Christmas to 467,000 in New Year's week.
If initial claims come in for last week at the consensus-expected
501,000, the four-week moving average would be down to 512,000, the
lowest since November.These figures signal that the most intense
period of the recession is behind us, not in front of us. Any
"stimulus" applied by government has less to do with creating the
recovery than letting politicians take credit when the recovery happens.
Link
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:08 pm

Ahh ... some hope at last. We need it for balance.

Quote :
Surely, major job cuts will continue to put downward pressure on earnings for at least the next few months. However, the decline in gasoline prices alone is saving consumers $410 billion in annual expenditures. In size, on an annual basis, this is similar to the government "stimulus" measures now under consideration.
Interesting facts and comparison but the fact that gas and oil prices are down at all are a sign of something - depressed demand perhaps.

Quote :
Meanwhile, despite the fear (some of which is stoked by political salesmanship) that the U.S. faces the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, initial claims for unemployment insurance have fallen dramatically, from 589,000 the week before Christmas to 467,000 in New Year's week.

If initial claims come in for last week at the consensus-expected 501,000, the four-week moving average would be down to 512,000, the lowest since November.
Wouldn't a rise in employment have been expected around Christmas anyway ? Is it my imagination or if the comparison the the lowest unemployment in the 'last two/three months' a bit too misleading ? Surely it should have said 'since November 2006/7' ?
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:30 am

OK, gas and oil are down (and maybe likely to remain that way for the next year or two, if we are VERY lucky, five). We also have zero -2 percent interest rates, which should be putting more money in people's pockets. They may very well be saving/paying down debt instead of spending, but is that not likely to be helping beleaguered banks, worldwide?? Even in the UK, debt repayments have gone up... mostly in the form of mortgage overpayments, funnily enough.

I know my mortgage repayments are down about 300-400 yoyos since last year and the ECB aint done yet....
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:46 pm

youngdan wrote:
I am Johnny. I almost added "despite the fact of you being a nice guy"

The confusion is cleared as you are a member of the only party that ever had an ounce of sense back there.

Perhaps your more than excellent effort of the cynide incedent planted a green seed in my mind

Despite Johnny being a nice guy, I take serious issue with the application of this description of the PDs post-1993. After Harney became leader, they became a party of cynical opportunists and sound-bite peddlers. Harney eventually hitched them to the bankrupt economic creed of neo-liberalism which is to a significant extent the primary cause of the global economic crash we are now experiencing. And the irony is that she, despite her party vapourising politically, is part of a government floundering in its attempts to clean up a mess which, from a domestic viewpoint , the policies of her party more than any other did most to foster.

"Sense", my arse!
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:30 pm

Slim Buddha wrote:
youngdan wrote:
I am Johnny. I almost added "despite the fact of you being a nice guy"

The confusion is cleared as you are a member of the only party that ever had an ounce of sense back there.

Perhaps your more than excellent effort of the cynide incedent planted a green seed in my mind

Despite Johnny being a nice guy, I take serious issue with the application of this description of the PDs post-1993. After Harney became leader, they became a party of cynical opportunists and sound-bite peddlers. Harney eventually hitched them to the bankrupt economic creed of neo-liberalism which is to a significant extent the primary cause of the global economic crash we are now experiencing. And the irony is that she, despite her party vapourising politically, is part of a government floundering in its attempts to clean up a mess which, from a domestic viewpoint , the policies of her party more than any other did most to foster.

"Sense", my arse!

Ya gotta love this. Smile
Any PD poster who tryed to sell the idea that the Celtic tiger was based on our policies of low tax and small government, were lashed by all and sundry as being egotistical, incorrect or just plain stupid.

Now that said tiger is no more than road kill, all of a sudden its "the PDs and their policies fault".

So Slim, can I take it that you do acknowledge the fact that boom was based on Progressive Democrat policy?

I'll accept the blame for the finla collapse if you acknowledge that we were right in the first place.


All this means is that the next time we get this show back on the road (about 5 years time, I reckon) we will know where the weakness in the systems were (i.e financial regulation) and we will make it work better.

Unfortunetely some other schmuck will find a way to circumvent, no doubt, but hey, nothing lasts forever. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:57 pm

Johnny Keogh wrote:
Slim Buddha wrote:
youngdan wrote:
I am Johnny. I almost added "despite the fact of you being a nice guy"

The confusion is cleared as you are a member of the only party that ever had an ounce of sense back there.

Perhaps your more than excellent effort of the cynide incedent planted a green seed in my mind

Despite Johnny being a nice guy, I take serious issue with the application of this description of the PDs post-1993. After Harney became leader, they became a party of cynical opportunists and sound-bite peddlers. Harney eventually hitched them to the bankrupt economic creed of neo-liberalism which is to a significant extent the primary cause of the global economic crash we are now experiencing. And the irony is that she, despite her party vapourising politically, is part of a government floundering in its attempts to clean up a mess which, from a domestic viewpoint , the policies of her party more than any other did most to foster.

"Sense", my arse!

Ya gotta love this. Smile
Any PD poster who tryed to sell the idea that the Celtic tiger was based on our policies of low tax and small government, were lashed by all and sundry as being egotistical, incorrect or just plain stupid.

Now that said tiger is no more than road kill, all of a sudden its "the PDs and their policies fault".

So Slim, can I take it that you do acknowledge the fact that boom was based on Progressive Democrat policy?

I'll accept the blame for the finla collapse if you acknowledge that we were right in the first place.


All this means is that the next time we get this show back on the road (about 5 years time, I reckon) we will know where the weakness in the systems were (i.e financial regulation) and we will make it work better.

Unfortunetely some other schmuck will find a way to circumvent, no doubt, but hey, nothing lasts forever. Smile


The PDs of 1986 to 1993 were an exciting party, a breath of fresh air in Irish politics and a genuine attempt to break with the past. It was a party which tried honestly to forge a new vision for political discourse and an open house for those who wanted more from politics than bland platitudes. I was an admirer of O'Malley and, while recognising his shortcomings, believed him to be honest in his endeavour. While the party was founded by people conservative in nature, the ideas they put forward were radical for their time.

Harney's inept leadership, her ditching of any progressive social policy and her embrace of the dull material of neo-liberalist economics was a disappointment of immense magnitude. Under her failed reign, the party became a gremlin of Hiberno-Thatcherism. With this barren philosophy having replaced the dynamic ideals of the early PDs, the party formed together with Fianna Fail a government which effectively lasted from 1997 until 2004. By having a crypto-PD, McCreevy, in Finance, the PDs with McCreevy hammered out 7 doctrinaire Thatcherist budgets until the rest of FF copped on to the fact that McCreevy was, in fact, a PD. And he had to go.

The original ideas of the PDs were exciting and radical. After Harney became leader, the party changed and became something quite contemptible. Those of us who initially held out the greatest hope for the PDs at the time of the party's inception are now among those who hold it in the greatest opprobium.

It is sad that such a great opportunity was blown.
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:08 pm

Slim Buddha wrote:
Johnny Keogh wrote:
Slim Buddha wrote:
youngdan wrote:
I am Johnny. I almost added "despite the fact of you being a nice guy"

The confusion is cleared as you are a member of the only party that ever had an ounce of sense back there.

Perhaps your more than excellent effort of the cynide incedent planted a green seed in my mind

Despite Johnny being a nice guy, I take serious issue with the application of this description of the PDs post-1993. After Harney became leader, they became a party of cynical opportunists and sound-bite peddlers. Harney eventually hitched them to the bankrupt economic creed of neo-liberalism which is to a significant extent the primary cause of the global economic crash we are now experiencing. And the irony is that she, despite her party vapourising politically, is part of a government floundering in its attempts to clean up a mess which, from a domestic viewpoint , the policies of her party more than any other did most to foster.

"Sense", my arse!

Ya gotta love this. Smile
Any PD poster who tryed to sell the idea that the Celtic tiger was based on our policies of low tax and small government, were lashed by all and sundry as being egotistical, incorrect or just plain stupid.

Now that said tiger is no more than road kill, all of a sudden its "the PDs and their policies fault".

So Slim, can I take it that you do acknowledge the fact that boom was based on Progressive Democrat policy?

I'll accept the blame for the finla collapse if you acknowledge that we were right in the first place.


All this means is that the next time we get this show back on the road (about 5 years time, I reckon) we will know where the weakness in the systems were (i.e financial regulation) and we will make it work better.

Unfortunetely some other schmuck will find a way to circumvent, no doubt, but hey, nothing lasts forever. Smile


The PDs of 1986 to 1993 were an exciting party, a breath of fresh air in Irish politics and a genuine attempt to break with the past. It was a party which tried honestly to forge a new vision for political discourse and an open house for those who wanted more from politics than bland platitudes. I was an admirer of O'Malley and, while recognising his shortcomings, believed him to be honest in his endeavour. While the party was founded by people conservative in nature, the ideas they put forward were radical for their time.

Harney's inept leadership, her ditching of any progressive social policy and her embrace of the dull material of neo-liberalist economics was a disappointment of immense magnitude. Under her failed reign, the party became a gremlin of Hiberno-Thatcherism. With this barren philosophy having replaced the dynamic ideals of the early PDs, the party formed together with Fianna Fail a government which effectively lasted from 1997 until 2004. By having a crypto-PD, McCreevy, in Finance, the PDs with McCreevy hammered out 7 doctrinaire Thatcherist budgets until the rest of FF copped on to the fact that McCreevy was, in fact, a PD. And he had to go.

The original ideas of the PDs were exciting and radical. After Harney became leader, the party changed and became something quite contemptible. Those of us who initially held out the greatest hope for the PDs at the time of the party's inception are now among those who hold it in the greatest opprobium.

It is sad that such a great opportunity was blown.

Well said Slim Buddha. That's a neat summation of what happened. Though I never supported the PDs, they were at one time undeniably determined to break with the cute-hoor shitery that Fianna Fail seem inescapably mired in. Harney did for them. She was and is an IBEC stooge basically.
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:38 pm

Nortel --> Chapter 11

Quote :
Nortel files for bankruptcy ahead of interest payment

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0114/breaking51.htm

Nortel Networks, North America's biggest maker of telephone equipment, filed for bankruptcy protection this afternoon as the global economic downturn further erodes its once high-flying business.

The company employs 300 staff at its Galway offices in Mervue Business Park and 1,200 staff at its Belfast office in the Monkstown Industrial Estate.

The filing came a day before the Toronto-based company was due to make an interest payment of about $107 million.

Nortel and a number of its affiliates filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in the United States, according to a court filing.

Its shares plunged more than 76 per cent to 7.5 cents in electronic pre-market trading. Nortel’s spokesman in Ireland David Silke, was not immediately available for comment.

According to the court filing in US bankruptcy court for the district of Delaware, Nortel's major creditors include Bank of New York Mellon, with claims valued at nearly $4 billion.

Nortel's shares have tumbled along with the company's fortunes, sinking into penny-stock territory in recent months. In mid-2000, at the zenith of the company's success, they were worth more than C$1,100 each, adjusted for a stock consolidation that took place in late 2006.
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:27 pm

This guy gives a very good quick synopsis of the important economic news in the FT and elsewhere, mainly the FT though. He provides lots of links on his channel - all round worth the 9 mins although it'd be interesting if he'd tie it all together with more predictions and provide a wide view. Here's what he talks about in this one, under each of which he has provided a link on the youtube channel page.


China overtakes Germany as worlds third economy:

Alternate:
China becomes world's third largest economy:

Seriously going to mess up Germany's economy!
*****************************

New Zealand credit rating dropped:

(Alt - New Zealands foreign currency credit rating under pressure)

European Bond spreads widen to records:

Update: S&P have lowered Greece's credit rating:

Alt S&P cuts Greek debt rating as global crisis bites:

Record bond yield gaps highlight alarm at fiscal strains:

(Note that Italy is not being questioned by S&P yet; but it's bond spreads over Germany are bigger than Portugal at the moment)

Ghandi heir to harness people power:

(Alt: Young Congress icon Rahul playing bigger role:)

Indian Rice producers sound alert on defaults:

Shipping rates hit zero as trade sinks:

Global crisis slows EADS expansion plans:

(Alt EADS shelves US defence acquisition to preserve cash:)

Aircraft industry shocked by view from ground level:

Airbus in unknown territory:

(Alt As Airbus Takes the Crown for '08 Orders, Question Ahead Is Cancellations:)

And why would i want to fly on an A380? Perhaps because of this Wink
Sex ban on the Airbus A380:

Boeing hit by production snags:

Merkel defends 50-billion-euro stimulus plan:

German economy stumbles, raising pressure on ECB:

Other worthy stories:

(SMEs)
Does size matter on the High Street?

(Not looking too god for UK SMEs)
Economic survey results are worst on record:

(China GDP growth)
China slowdown 'big global risk':

(General UK retailing)
Gloomy mood points to dire downturn:

(Hillary talks of "partnership" with the US's biggest trade partners, Canada and Mexico)
RAW DATA: Hillary Clinton's Statement at Senate Confirmation Hearing


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uEf9H3GfxU
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:41 pm

We have been watching the global stock markets crash all thru last year.

This year we are seeing the "real" economy crash. Mainstream newspapers and media did not pay sufficent attention to the crisis last year. All the way thru it was the "financial crisis" or the "stock market crisis".

Now its the real thing , affecting ordinary joe's including the entire public sector. The question is not wether the public sector will take a paycut. the question is what will we do when we run out of cash to pay them?
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:40 pm

ECB rate now at 2%
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:46 pm

expat girl wrote:
ECB rate now at 2%

Was this from 2.5% ? The indo had an article saying that mortgages to fall by average of €82. That's about €16 million per month in this economy if there are 200,000 mortgages that drop by that much. Trouble is, most people will pay their debts with this extra bit but we'll see.

Not that they shouldn't.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mortgages-to-fall-by-average-of-836482-1602025.html
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:58 pm

Yes, it was from 2.5%. The E82 calculation was based on a 300,000 tracker mortgage
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:14 pm

Same Schiff, different day :

"What do you think Peter ?"

"Government Bad,
Free Market Good,
The End"

but

Steve Jobs of Apple Monday : "I'm fine - it's just a hormonal imbalance"
Apple Shareholders : "So the fan isn't going to be hit then - time to buy one or two more then"
Steve Jobs of Apple Friday : "I'll only be in hospital for a few months"
Apple Shareholders : "Aarrrgh ! Sell sell sell !"

Adam Smith:
"The Free Market is mighty but it needs a moral and ethical heart and it needs people to tell the truth and Obama needs to promote that"

Tim Geithner, future Treasury Secretary for Obama's Government:
"What ? That $42k tax payment hasn't left my account yet ? Damn. I DIDN'T DO IT"

Where will it all end ?

Part I


Part II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGkvHADl08I
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:27 am

Mike with lots of news but you don't feel it going in. In the end he says that youtube is now being blamed as a means of sparking riots. At least the Oscar Grant riot could have sprung up out of online incitement. Before too long we'll see the sword cutting with the other edge I'd say ...

His notes:

[All the links are broken by the way, you'll have to go to his page for them and click on 'more info']

Carl Sagan - Cosmos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1J1KO...

The 'journey' begins at 7min

Remember to rate/comment, etc. before going going too far on the links LOL

Did you notice ANY of this while you were watching a plane crash?

US senate releases second half of $700bn financial bailout:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/fi...

Senate Votes To Release Bailout Funds To Obama:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/...

Financial crisis: Bank of America given $138bn rescue package:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/20...

South China Morning News - Tsang delays consultation on poll reform:
http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/...

Andreas Whittam Smith: This is not the Great Depression:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/...

His big point is that When Roosevelt was sworn in at the beginning of March, 32 states had closed all their banks. Most started in the middle of February 1933.
Unemployment was at 30% on March 4, 1933. According to http://www.shadowstats.com, "real" unemployment is just under 18% and spiking sharply higher. It may not make it to 30% by the end of February, but it is looking more likely it will get close.
IBM and Microsoft are expected to announce huge job before the end of January. Motorola announced yesterday they are laying off 4000 employees in the US mobile phone divisions.
Expect the official monthly numbers of new claimants to approach 2,000,000 in January. Get 2 Million unemployed in a month. And that's the 'seasonally adjusted' numbers, real numbers will be higher :-)

I predict a riot. Where? You're guess is as good as mine...

However, this week there were continuing riots in Greece, with the "Revolutionary Struggle" admitting they involved in the shooting of a police officer (who is recovering BTW).

Greek terror group claims attacks on police:
http://www.postbulletin.com/newsmanag...

What does this have to do with Finance? - see these stories here:

Greek crisis deepens as S&P downgrades sovereign debt:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/fi...

Greek riots mirror Torontos problems, protesters say:
http://www.thevarsity.ca/article/6461

Fresh riots in Riga in Latvia were economically and anti-government related, as was a riot in Bulgaria (They are running out of Gas due to the Russia/Ukraine dispute).

Bulgarians stage second day of anti-govt protests:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/latestC...

Latvia video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6TNr1...

I liked the muppet at 1min 15s; guess he was too busy beating the police car to notice the cops grabbing him!

In the UK, Anti-war demonstrations are turning ugly. London's anti war and pro-palestine demos brought the Riot Police out:
Protest violence ordeal for Kathy:
http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/Pr...

Popular Mechanics Article - Worst-Case Scenarios: How To Survive A Riot:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scien...

In the US, a new riot was reported in Oakland. The UK press highlighted the YouTube videos of the shooting as the main cause of the disturbances. The underlying story being that the media
are placing the idea into people heads that we YouTuber's are inciting violence. Be careful out there!

YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news...

Peaceful Oakland rally marred by vandalism:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11463532

In Africa, fresh rioting is expected in Sierra Leone
Sierra Leone: Wia Ex-Soldiers Plan Riot:
http://allafrica.com/stories/20090115...

Wary eye cast over 50m bloggers in 'sensitive year':
http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/...

If there isn't a war on terror, then what exactly are our boys dying for?:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/co...


Good point in one of my comments: Switch off the TV - further to that: read multiple sources of news to 'distill' the truth.

Peace


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd_YXaKwVYY
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:20 pm

Kentucky has two weeks of dole left-- News Report: 2 mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JggWSVvdlr0

40+ U.S. states with deficits now according to DEMCAD - suppliers to be issued IOUs by the state of California. Bailouts, handouts, doleouts, blackouts .. 5 mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J69vMLWNyf4

Quote :


(CNN) -- The check isn't in the mail, and it's not going to be for at least 30 days, California will start telling some of its creditors in February.


The state, facing a $42 billion deficit, will delay some crucial payments to stay liquid, state Controller John Chiang announced Friday.

Among those who will be left waiting for checks are thousands of businesses that provide services and products to the state; more than 1 million aged and disabled Californians who need to pay for rent, utilities or food; and individuals and businesses awaiting tax refunds to the tune of $1.91 billion.

That includes taxpayers such as Mildred Copeland, 84, of Toluca Lake, who lives on a fixed income. She raises a teenage grandson on her Social Security checks and a part-time job waiting tables. Making her bills is always a stretch, so she counts on her tax refund every year.
California teetering

Quote :
California frees up $650 million to pay contractors

After hearing desperate pleas from contractors facing mounting piles of unpaid bills, California's top financial leaders voted Friday to free up $650 million so state agencies could pay some bills.

The California Pooled Money Investment Board, whose members include Treasurer Bill Lockyer and Department of Finance Director Michael Genest, voted to open the financial tap after several contractors told a packed meeting they hadn't seen payments for December work.

Their vote came after Sacramento contractor Norman "Skip" Brown politely blasted the state officials.

"You have to pay your bills," Brown admonished. "If you don't pay your bills, you won't have a contracting industry!"

http://www.sacbee.com/capitolandcalifornia/story/1549848.html?mi_rss=Capitol%20and%20California

Quote :
U.S. tells plan to drill off California coast


The U.S. Interior Department, acting in President Bush's final days in office, proposed on Friday opening up 130 million acres off of California's coast to drilling for oil and natural gas, including areas off Humboldt and Mendocino counties and from San Luis Obispo south to San Diego.

After a hands-off policy for a quarter-century, the administration submitted plans to sell oil and gas leases for most of the U.S. coast, from the Gulf of Maine to Chesapeake Bay and the Outer Banks of North Carolina to the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific Coast.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/17/BA0F15C3FU.DTL&feed=rss.bayarea

So some of this Depression might be coming down to the fact that America uses too much energy as an import - it produces about 6 million barrels of oil a day but consumes 20 million. That might change this year. It might have to.
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:07 pm

Exclamation

Downing Street censors London Indo piece on Banking Sector Insolvency

(he refers to Ireland's banks - have a listen for the mistake ... Rolling Eyes )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj7udeHQ-X0

He reads it above but I've copied the google cash version Smile here
Quote :
Britains biggest banks are "technically insolvent", Royal Bank of Scotland said yesterday, as the global banking industry was rocked by another day of turmoil, including the announcement of $23bn (£16bn) of new losses from Merrill Lynch and Citigroup, the giant US institutions.

Analysts working for RBS, one of several British banks to have received emergency funding from the UK Government last year, told the City that "the domestic UK banks are technically insolvent on a fully marked-to-market basis".

The warning does not mean British banks are about to go bust, because the assessment is purely theoretical, and RBS said the position was "not unusual at this stage in the economic cycle".

However, it will add to pressure on the Government to provide more support for the country's banks. Treasury officials are now set to spend this weekend in talks about a fresh round of measures, which could be unveiled as early as next week, to free up lending to households and major corporations hit by the credit crunch.

The value of Barclays fell by a quarter in stock market trading yesterday, amid a series of wild rumours about its finances, although the bank said it saw no need to comment on the drop. Its board said in a statement last night that it knew "no justification for the fall".

The statement said next month the bank expected to report that profits before tax for 2008 were "well ahead" of the £5.3 billion forecast by analysts.

City analysts said the bank had been targeted by traders after regulators lifted a ban yesterday on the short selling of financial stocks. Barclays' share price, along with the value of other British banks, was also hit by dismal news from the international markets, including the announcement on Thursday night that the Irish government was nationalising Allied Irish Banks. In the US, Bank of America announced yesterday that it was taking a $20bn injection of emergency funding from the US government, subsequently revealing that Merrill Lynch, the investment bank it rescued last year, had lost more than £15bn in the final three months of last year.

Citigroup, once the world's largest bank, announced more than $8bn of losses for the final quarter of last year, and revealed plans to split itself in two.

Treasury officials were still discussing plans to help British banks last night but the proposals are likely to include up to £100bn of new guarantees for the wholesale markets that underpin mortgage and other loans.

Other possible measures being considered include state support to help Britain's largest companies raise their own funds. Another option is to launch a "bad bank" to remove tainted assets from the banks' balance sheets, though while this policy is under consideration, it is thought to remain some way off.

Other proposals include ring-fencing the toxic assets within bank balance sheets. Lord Mandelson, the Business Secretary, has also talked of easing the terms of the Government's £37bn bank bailout in order to kickstart lending. Downing Street made it clear yesterday that the Government remained committed to doing "whatever is necessary to help British businesses and families get through this global financial recession".
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:09 pm

auuughh. Yep, looks like everyone is broke. Not just us. Britain's banking sector is a far larger proportion of their economy even than ours. The observer is saying they'll be forced to join the Euro.... but will the Euro take them???
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:39 pm

Your man above continues to give a run-down of the banking malarkey in the UK here in Part II : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc2aaLsBUGE

The Sunday Newspapers in ten minutes with Mike.

I think his main point is that the banking crisis looked like it was under control but it's not and we're very soon due the next big Banking Nightmare. Because of the removal of the article above he thinks it may be an indicator of the kind of panic that might lead to Northern Rock-style bank runs tomorrow !

Have you seen this ? The "option ARM" and "Alt-A" mortgages your man above refers to have yet to explode (reset) in a second wave of sub-prime like meltdowns - due at an economy near you within the next two or three years.

See it here - real estate orgies, the still coming meltdown, more fans more sh*t ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IeixTAzhjE



Part II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kin1fxZAJZE
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:19 am

And to think I was going to write a little post on Anglo Irish, our "Government", rats, and sinking ships. We may as well skip all that and move straight to IMF and riots.

I'm not in favour of riots. They use up a lot of energy and trash useful stuff. What we need is a Cunning Plan.
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PostSubject: Re: The Great International Depression of 2008 & Beyond /   Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:37 am

Your man above, Mike, believes the UK will put all the toxic crap in a skip bank too now. What will it be called - "Victoria May". The Irish one will be called "Angela Mac" and will be Anglo converted into a debt collection outfit/social housing scheme for greedy tools who bought half million euro mansions and now can pay sfa back, the ****ing greedy sonofabi***es.
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