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 Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots

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PostSubject: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:53 am



The weakest points of Europe are acting as valves = Iceland, Ireland and now Greece. Three days after a 15 year old boy was shot dead by police, petrol bombings, riots and mass demonstrations are continuing, with a General Strike tomorrow and the Government in danger of failing. The Socialist opposition seems not to have different solutions - the far left, the anarchists and trade unions are objecting to policies that leave the rich untouched whilst the poor pay.

Quote :
...the latest riots have besieged the administration of Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis who is facing a wave of discontent and sometimes violent demonstrations over policies including unpopular reforms to the country's pension system, privatisation's and loosening state control of higher education.
"It's very simple - we want the government to fall. This boy's death was the last straw for us," Petros Constantinou, an organiser with the Socialist Workers Party, said after a protest in central Athens.
"This government wants the poor to pay for all the country's problems - never the rich - and they keep those who protest in line with police oppression."
Opposition socialist leader George Papandreou called for early elections, saying the governing conservatives were incapable of defending the public from rioters.
The government has a single-seat majority in the 300-member Parliament and opposition parties blame hands-off policing for encouraging the worst rioting the country has seen in decades.

The Icelandic government seems to be surviving by locking itself away from the voters.
If the Greek government falls, will it be the first of many to go as a result of the end of the boom?
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:28 am

I've heard very little about this to be honest - if anything. If you have a link I'll read it though.

Are the barbarians at the (east) Wall ?
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:30 am

Meh - Having lived in Greece for 4 years from 1994 - I have to say Im not surprised. The Greeks need to have a good week or two of riots every decade or so - I was there for a rake of them. Helps them let off steam - they'll still go out and vote for the same bunch of political parties again at the next election - will still privately admire the same bunch of nihilistic anarchists who have no real strategy except mayhem and the opportunity to go and loot and burn down as many small mom and pop retail enterprises as possible and the whole country will go on dodging the taxman and paying their taxes for as long as possible and then are surprised when the state has no money to pay for anything but the most basic services - and will go absolutely mental if that at least 25% of that money is not spent on the military and their crazy need to keep up with the Jones (ie the Turks) in having the most up to date military toys for a conflict that is now never going to happen.

Greece - The one country I have lived in for a considerable length of time that is more proudly dysfunctional and fucked up than my one.


Last edited by Edo on Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:32 am

It is not because of the end of the boom it is because they are angry at being screwed. Did I not say the EU was going to break up.
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:33 am

youngdan wrote:
It is not because of the end of the boom it is because they are angry at being screwed. Did I not say the EU was going to break up.

hate to break to you YD - but Greece never had a "boom" to begin with
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:38 am

cactus flower wrote:


The weakest points of Europe are acting as valves = Iceland, Ireland and now Greece. Three days after a 15 year old boy was shot dead by police, petrol bombings, riots and mass demonstrations are continuing, with a General Strike tomorrow and the Government in danger of failing. The Socialist opposition seems not to have different solutions - the far left, the anarchists and trade unions are objecting to policies that leave the rich untouched whilst the poor pay.

Quote :
...the latest riots have besieged the administration of Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis who is facing a wave of discontent and sometimes violent demonstrations over policies including unpopular reforms to the country's pension system, privatisation's and loosening state control of higher education.
"It's very simple - we want the government to fall. This boy's death was the last straw for us," Petros Constantinou, an organiser with the Socialist Workers Party, said after a protest in central Athens.
"This government wants the poor to pay for all the country's problems - never the rich - and they keep those who protest in line with police oppression."
Opposition socialist leader George Papandreou called for early elections, saying the governing conservatives were incapable of defending the public from rioters.
The government has a single-seat majority in the 300-member Parliament and opposition parties blame hands-off policing for encouraging the worst rioting the country has seen in decades.

The Icelandic government seems to be surviving by locking itself away from the voters.
If the Greek government falls, will it be the first of many to go as a result of the end of the boom?

Whilst not disagreeing with a word of your description, there is a similarity with what's happening in Iceland (Iceland has so far left out the fire bombs). Frustration, anger, anarchists making hay in the streets, and not a sign of a solution.
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:40 am

Edo, I know you understand English but am I not just after saying that.

It was Cactus at the end of her post that asked was it the result of the boom ending and I was answering her.

2 posts were entered while I typed
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:15 am

youngdan wrote:
Edo, I know you understand English but am I not just after saying that.

It was Cactus at the end of her post that asked was it the result of the boom ending and I was answering her.

2 posts were entered while I typed

Indeed it was me that said Greek and boom in the same sentence. They seem to have had some form of recent property boom - for the rest, they have not been living in a different world to the rest of Europe. The Greek economy grew 4 per cent a year from 2003-2007 - those low interest rates pretty well did for everyone.
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:36 pm

I just finished re-reading Persian Fire by Tom Holland today and I can't help thinking about it in the context of today's troubles. Perhaps Kostas Karamanlis should simply be ostracised and left to stew elsewhere in Magna Graecia like Sicily for a decade before being let back in. It could be the solution they need. It seemed to work well in the previous incarnation of Hellenic Democracy, why not now?
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:40 pm



A great sequence of photos from the FT
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:41 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:41 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm



Who are these guys?
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:43 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:43 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:45 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:46 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:47 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:47 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:49 pm

Those are brilliant photos cactus.
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:28 pm

Edo wrote:
Meh - Having lived in Greece for 4 years from 1994 - I have to say Im not surprised. The Greeks need to have a good week or two of riots every decade or so - I was there for a rake of them. Helps them let off steam - they'll still go out and vote for the same bunch of political parties again at the next election - will still privately admire the same bunch of nihilistic anarchists who have no real strategy except mayhem and the opportunity to go and loot and burn down as many small mom and pop retail enterprises as possible and the whole country will go on dodging the taxman and paying their taxes for as long as possible and then are surprised when the state has no money to pay for anything but the most basic services - and will go absolutely mental if that at least 25% of that money is not spent on the military and their crazy need to keep up with the Jones (ie the Turks) in having the most up to date military toys for a conflict that is now never going to happen.

Greece - The one country I have lived in for a considerable length of time that is more proudly dysfunctional and fucked up than my one.

That is a grim comparison, Edo. From whatever angle one looks at it.
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:36 am

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/ambrose_evans-pritchard/blog/2008/12/10/greek_fighting_the_eurozones_weakest_link_starts_to_crack

I have being saying this for a long time now but it seems Pritchard is now in agreement with me.

The EU fantasy is beginning to face reality. Most here of course will not want to face this.
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:43 am

youngdan wrote:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/ambrose_evans-pritchard/blog/2008/12/10/greek_fighting_the_eurozones_weakest_link_starts_to_crack

I have being saying this for a long time now but it seems Pritchard is now in agreement with me.

The EU fantasy is beginning to face reality. Most here of course will not want to face this.

You do the Telegraph is a politically-motivated newspaper with a decidedly dim view of the European project? Papers like the Telegraph were pouring doubt on the possibility of the €uro being introduced at all throughout the 90s. Henry Kissinger et al, all these detractors were proven wrong and the €uro is still here 10 years after its foundation as a currency in its own right. There have been riots in the €urozone before, especially in Paris in 2005. The riots in France imperilled the €uro more since they were in the capital of the zone's second-largest constituent economy. As much as we may love Greece, it is a backwater in the zone and not very important to its overall health. The disturbances there, therefore, are of little importance to the overall currency.

The Telegraph should be more aware of the possibility of the collapse of the pound sterling. As Pritchard was writing this, the €uro hit a record high against the Queen's Shilling and is holding steady against the dollar. Britain is due to have the worst recession of the advanced economies. The Telegraph is in a decidedly glassy house to be throwing stones on this issue.
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:46 am

What is the saying, the rampart crumbles the centre can not hold. Comparing the euro to the pound to the dollar is a time waster unless you are a trader as they are all doomed
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PostSubject: Re: Greek Fire - Who should pay the price of the Crash ? Greece riots   Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:08 am

youngdan wrote:
What is the saying, the rampart crumbles the centre can not hold. Comparing the euro to the pound to the dollar is a time waster unless you are a trader as they are all doomed

The W.B.Yeats poem ?

Turning and turning inside the widening gyre
The Falcon cannot hear the Falconer
Things fall apart
The centre cannot hold
And a blood-dimmed tide is loosed upon the world

Joni singing it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0ggfs2kgfY
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