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 Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.

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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:27 pm

Good God. Now it begins.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:08 pm

This has got to be the biggest dose of horseshythe that ever came down the pike.

You would get more dioxin out of smoking a fag than eating the entire pig from snout to tail.

This is where Ireland is in 2008 because a pig et a sandwich, plastic and all. I can barely tap the keyboard I am laughin so much.

Oink, Oink Oink.

A pig will eat anything from a turnip to a tanantula.

Sometimes the only word to describe a pig is to actually call them a PIG.


Are the posters here all townies or something. Growing up we once had a pig. His name was Garret after some fool that my father admired. This hungry, fat disgusting savage beast, the pig that is, would eat anything that was thrown into the trough. Dead lambs and calves were just appetizers to this future sow satisfier, the pig I am still talking about.

They are like a living garbage disposal unit and Garret even once gobbled down a dead badger, hair and all, without even a burp. By the time we sold him he was foul monster indeed and it was a job to corral the bastard sure enough. We had to use pitchforks to fend off his attacks with a lad
with a double barrel just in case he got the better of us. We never castrated him and by this time there was not a warrior in the parish brave or foolish enough to attempt cutting the balls off him.

This tail did have a joyous ending as the auld lad got 60 quid for the fiend and soon he was reincarnated as a plate of rashers.

Oink Oink
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PostSubject: Mocking the Afflicted   Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:06 pm

I was in Edenderry today. People are devastated. The factory is relatively new, having been rebuilt after a fire in 2007 and it's by far the biggest employer in a town which has seen more than its fair share of job losses in recent times and received a commitment from the IDA that it's firmly off their agenda for job creation. In many ways it is the black hole of county Offaly.

The queues outside the dole office were staggering. You may have seen them on the news. Generations of people worked in that company - I spoke to a man who at one time had six members of his family employed there by Glanbia and latterly Rossderra Irish Meats, which is essentially the same company bought out by a manager after the fire.

The impact for the town is devastating. If other countries ban Irish pork - regardless of whether you consider the grounds for the recall ridiculous, the impact for the country will be even more devastating. If the panic spreads to the beef sector it will be catastrophic, beyond our wildest imagination. In cases like this perception is reality and the difficulties in undoing the damage of bad publicity to our profitable 'food island' are profound and are certainly not to be laughed at.

Indeed it's easy to sneer at the predicament from high-moral ground a few thousand miles away.

On the ground, the reality is sobering. Two weeks before Christmas a town that is on its knees has its main industry wiped out. Workers who know the industry hold no hope for its regeneration. A pay-parking system was being installed in town while I was there and only one group of people were laughing - the shop owners - at the irony of people paying for parking to do their shopping in a town where small businesses are falling like dominoes. A baby-clothes shop also closed its doors today.

So you can call it horseshite if you like, and if it emerges that the government and the agencies took a sledgehammer to a swat an ant, we can console ourselves that if making the best effort to deal with the crisis with some semblance of professionalism and joined-up-thinking sees 850 people on the dole two weeks before Christmas, well, sledgehammers are the least of our problems.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:19 pm

Hi Kate

What a scene there in Edenderry. Are you serious about the "workers who know the industry hold no hope for its regeneration" ? Surely we'll start eating pigs again in a month or two ?

What's the story with other countries banning our meat now ? Do they trust us when we say we've isolated it and tested plenty of other farms and animals and they're ok ? Whats the EU mechanisms for this - are they integrated and streamlined under CAP or what ???

Could this have been sabotage by The UVF (United Vegetarian Front) ?

We should have been more open with Brazilian beef - this could be a curse coming to ruin us.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:33 pm

Get a grip Kate, the whole country is being taken for a ride, I hope they find a cow who ate a moldy bale of hay next and close that down as well. I have said all along that the people back there are going to get a shafting. I said that they won't even cop on when they are starving.

Ye are afflicted because ye are listening to some stupid Irish or EU directive. How about telling evevyone that the pigs ate some plastic and let them buy their bacon with this in mind if they wished. No that would make sense so clear the shelves.

Tomorrow I am going to an Irish pub here and going to eat a big plate of Irish sausages and I don't care if my hair falls out before I am finished

What can I say, Ireland is a lost cause
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:41 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Hi Kate

What a scene there in Edenderry. Are you serious about the "workers who know the industry hold no hope for its regeneration" ? Surely we'll start eating pigs again in a month or two ?

Yes - absolutely serious. They feel that because they rely so much on exports, there's no hope of retaining or regaining markets that might be damaged by this. Foodscares aren't called scares for nothing, you know. Whether we start eating pigs again today or tomorrow is of no real relevance; what matters is the export market and that's political.

Quote :
What's the story with other countries banning our meat now ? Do they trust us when we say we've isolated it and tested plenty of other farms and animals and they're ok ? Whats the EU mechanisms for this - are they integrated and streamlined under CAP or what ???

My understanding - and I'll bow to any superior knowledge ibis has on the subject, member countries are expected not to unilaterally impose food bans. But that doesn't mean that they won't. Anywatm much that is exported goes far beyond Europe.

Quote :
Could this have been sabotage by The UVF (United Vegetarian Front) ?

Hardly.
But there are those who would argue that the meat industry are using workers as pawns to garner public sympathy that might garner greater bargaining power at the compensation-package table with the government. It was reported in today's Examiner, as far as I know, that Brian Cowen said yesterday in Mullingar he and the government had not turned their minds to the question of processors and farmers because consumer safety was their primary concern. The prospect of 850 job losses is likely to have the power to turn heads.

Quote :
We should have been more open with Brazilian beef - this could be a curse coming to ruin us.

There are two arguments on this, Audi and they have little in common though from the consumer's perspective, they seem to overlap.
Firstly Brazilian beef has been shown to have high levels of the kinds of growth promoters and antibiotics that we don't want. So there is a food safety (snobbery?) issue there. Should we be open to that? Even with labelling (which doesn't exist at the moment).

The second is market-based. Beef production costs in Europe are far, far higher in Ireland because of the level of regulation that means cattle can't cross into areas where foot and mouth disease is endemic, workers aren't exploited, rainforests aren't decimated and the highest levels of traceability, hygiene and husbandry are maintained. Should we be open to that? Arguably we should - but then we'd have to argue about the relative price worth paying for it, and the real price worth paying.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:55 pm

youngdan wrote:
Get a grip Kate, the whole country is being taken for a ride, I hope they find a cow who ate a moldy bale of hay next and close that down as well. I have said all along that the people back there are going to get a shafting. I said that they won't even cop on when they are starving.


It's a twist on reductio ad absurdum - the technique used above to reduce not just this but other arguments to the same absurd point that we're all being taken for a ride. The problem with that point of view, youngdan, is that slapping the youngdan seal of derision on a problem doesn't take us any further.


Quote :
Ye are afflicted because ye are listening to some stupid Irish or EU directive. How about telling evevyone that the pigs ate some plastic and let them buy their bacon with this in mind if they wished. No that would make sense so clear the shelves.

Because the pigs didn't eat plastic.

And because dioxins are carcinogenic, and daft as we are in Europe, we kind of think it's good to keep levels of carcinogens in foods to the barest acceptable minimum. Food isn't a discretionary item purchased by consumers who, for example can choose not to buy cigarettes containing carcinogens but don't have the same luxury of government health warnings on foods. We tend to think that health warnings on foods make them somehow less palatable. If you have better ways in the States of regulating toxins in foodstuffs and coping with foodscares, do share.

Quote :
Tomorrow I am going to an Irish pub here and going to eat a big plate of Irish sausages and I don't care if my hair falls out before I am finished

You'll find that most people are still eating pork here - many haven't disposed of it, relatively few are going to their supermarkets to return it, and many are still looking for it in shops and are ordering their Christmas hams regardless. I'm not sure that anyone else particularly cares whether your hair falls out but the legitimate concern raised here is that there were levels of carcinogens up to 200 times higher than an agreed safety level. That the level is still small, that the timeframe in which the infection occurred is relatively short and the effect is negligible doesn't divest those responsible for dealing with the fallout (excuse the pun) of the responsibility to deal with the fallout.

Quote :
What can I say, Ireland is a lost cause

That's helpful.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:59 am

Of course people are still eating any products they have because they recognise that it is no danger whatsoever. When they fill their petrol tank they breath in more toxic fumes than eating a thousand pigs.

This will cause dire economic impacts. What should have been done was stop feeding the pigs the toxic stuff and continue on. Instead of that thousands will be without a penny coming up to Christmas. It wouldn't be Cowen that will have to tell the kids bad news.

Am I the only one on the site that thinks that the problem is not the pigs but the pigs who are stopping us eating the pigs
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:08 am

It's a fair point youngdan has and Kate mentioned it earlier - the ban is only a recommendation and a precaution. It's illegal to sell it but not to eat it.

Plenty of people got up this morning and ignored the advice and possibly ingested 80-200 times more polylchlorinated benzyl or whatever its called. This will ruin an industry but for how long ?

Still youngdan you must understand that the Irish are as litigious as the Yanks - what would happen if I got an awful cramp in my guts tomorrow, a vicious headache cough and couldn't go to the Fás office to see what goodies are on offer ? Sure couldn't I get some compensation or disability off the council or off Trevor Sargent ?
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:18 am

If you get a cramp keep close to the facilities. The lawsuit aspect is another sad development. You have a ton of these warnings and worries and guidelines. Yet cancer rates seem to be higher than ever and all diseases for that matter. There is a disconnect here someplace
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:26 am

So what do you reckon then youngdan about re-connecting that disconnect ?
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:41 am

I do not know the answer to that Audi as I am not a doctor. Unlike others here I not talk on a subject much if I am not knowledgeable.

However I am not blind and can see for example that in 1900 Autism was 1:10000 and is now 1:166. Also cancer sees rampant

I can only conclude that mass produced food is garbage.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:16 am

Quote :
The Irish government announced Saturday that some Irish pork contained illegal levels of dioxin chemicals and ordered the recall or destruction of all Irish pork products produced since Sept. 1. The government now faces an uphill struggle to restore international confidence in an industry worth more than 450 million euros ($570 million) annually, chiefly in exports to Europe and Asia.

Russia, China, Japan, South Korea and Singapore all announced import bans Monday on Irish pork. But Irish, British and European Union officials stressed that contaminated Irish pork posed no real health threat if eaten - because the dioxins in question must be consumed for years to pose a cancer risk.

European Union health officials said Ireland had acted responsibly in issuing its international warning. The EU said all importers of Irish pork should ensure their current stocks are removed from sale and dumped, destroyed or returned to Ireland. But an EU-wide ban on future Irish pork shipments would be overkill.
Capital Press
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:17 pm

Padraic Walsh on Morning Ireland worrying out loud about potential impact on beef. Also, this morning from the Examiner:

Quote :
EU crisis aid sought as 1,400 jobs lost

THE Government will seek funding from the European Commission as part of a rescue package for the pig industry after a day in which at least 1,400 people lost their jobs because of the contamination of pork products.
..
The industry said it faces a bill of about €100 million because they have had to cease production following the weekend recall of pork products. Processors warned the slaughter of pigs would not resume until the Government pledged aid to help them cope with the huge financial implications arising from the recall of pig meat products and the slaughter of about 100,000 pigs.
..
About 1,400 staff members were laid off in eight plants yesterday, with SIPTU warning that up to 6,000 jobs in the industry could be lost before Christmas. The union said any rescue package for the industry must make provision for employees as well as producers and processors.

Tests are being carried out on beef samples from 38 of the farms affected, where both cattle and pigs are kept. The Department of Agriculture said this accounted for a mere 0.2% of the total beef industry.

Results are expected tomorrow on separate tests by the European Food Safety Authority on products containing traces of pork such as sweets with gelatin.,,,>>>
Examiner
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:54 pm

Kate P wrote:
But there are those who would argue that the meat industry are using workers as pawns to garner public sympathy that might garner greater bargaining power at the compensation-package table with the government.
I think that may be the feeling the general population.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:57 pm

eoinmn wrote:
Kate P wrote:
But there are those who would argue that the meat industry are using workers as pawns to garner public sympathy that might garner greater bargaining power at the compensation-package table with the government.
I think that may be the feeling the general population.

Indeed and it is not the first time. The Goodman group were always very good at this kind of holding the Government to ransom as well. It is unheard of in most industries that you would have this level of redundancies in such a short period of time after the crisis.

I presume most of the workers in these plants are on in employment on very poor contractual conditions, very casual. Perhaps their bailout should include the placing of their employees on a more permanent footing.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:41 pm

youngdan wrote:
I do not know the answer to that Audi as I am not a doctor. Unlike others here I not talk on a subject much if I am not knowledgeable.

However I am not blind and can see for example that in 1900 Autism was 1:10000 and is now 1:166. Also cancer sees rampant

I can only conclude that mass produced food is garbage.

Mass produced food may indeed be garbage, but as any good statistician will tell you Dan, correlation does not imply causation.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:02 pm

It seems that beef is about to go the same way. KN over on politics.ie is saying that a a press conference is imminent.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:14 pm

unaligned wrote:
It seems that beef is about to go the same way. KN over on politics.ie is saying that a a press conference is imminent.

Thanks for that. Some UK and NI headlines from today

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/55/Supermarkets-move-to-reassure-customers.4774964.jp

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/irish-pork-northern-ireland-pork-gets-the-allclear-but-question-mark-now-hangs-over-beef-after-cattle-ate-dioxin-meal-14099650.html

http://www.talkingretail.com/news/industry-news/11702-tesco-still-selling-irish-pork-after-dioxin-scare.html (NI)

Tracing pork may be slow - Metlwater News
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:22 pm

unaligned wrote:
It seems that beef is about to go the same way. KN over on politics.ie is saying that a a press conference is imminent.
Some herds ( 38 ) will have to be slaughtered.

We can't afford the beef industry to be affected like the pork is.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:31 pm

Avril Doyle is picking holes in the traceability on RTE 1. Padraic Walshe reckons it's an exceptional occurrence. €8 million this will cost - no money from Brussels.

He's blaming the EU Commission for 'country of origin' labelling.

'Exceptional occurrence' sounds like a parachute in rare cases. Doyle is supporting Walshe on the lack of country of origin labelling where feeds that are packed here may not display where they've come from.

I may have some of those details wrong but there is some vocab anyway - which we'll hear more of over the next few days.

Stuff we know already from AP yesterday

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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:37 pm

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/state-overreacted-when-it-pulled-pork-off-shelves-1567919.html

This was my reaction as well. A mountain out of a molehill thanks to a crowd of fools.

Speaking of fools they don't even have the 200 million and are begging the EU. What is going to happen when they are called on the 500 billion bank bluff.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:40 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
He's blaming the EU Commission for 'country of origin' labelling.
How?
Isn't the feed and the cattle/pigs both from Ireland?
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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:38 pm

eoinmn wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
He's blaming the EU Commission for 'country of origin' labelling.
How?
Isn't the feed and the cattle/pigs both from Ireland?

I guess not every morsel we ultimately eat via the food chain comes only from Ireland or the EU.

Could some ingredient which gets added to some other animal-food ingredient which is in turn imported and which our pigs eat and then themselves become ingredients for our stir fries, originate outside the EU ?

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PostSubject: Re: Irish Pork Recall - Europe says we are safe.   Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:41 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Could some ingredient which gets added to some other animal-food ingredient which is in turn imported and which our pigs eat and then themselves become ingredients for our stir fries, originate outside the EU ?
I don't see how "country of origin" labels change this.
If bread from France goes to a food company in Carlow. That company makes feed which goes to a pig farm in Cork.
The country of origin on the pork will be Ireland. No?
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