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 Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW

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Who is the Worst Irish Politician of 2008 ?
Mary Harney
20%
 20% [ 14 ]
Bertie Ahern
21%
 21% [ 15 ]
Brian Cowen
16%
 16% [ 11 ]
James O'Reilly
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
John Gormley
3%
 3% [ 2 ]
Declan Ganley
26%
 26% [ 18 ]
Leo Varadker
10%
 10% [ 7 ]
Joan Burton
4%
 4% [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 70
 

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PostSubject: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:02 am

This is the first year in which a Machine Nation Worst Politician of the Year will be selected.

Vote here for the worst politician of the year - the poll will run for 14 days from today.

One vote per person only. The shortlist consists of all politicians receiving more than one nomination.

A separate thread and poll is running for Best Politician of the Year.

Some people are nominated on both lists Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:53 pm

bump
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:07 pm

Looking like a three horse race here
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:07 pm

This is a bit hard on Declan: I withheld my vote from him for fear of finding something worse, and because he said he is not a politician.
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:38 am

bump bounce
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:08 pm

Mary, Mary quite contrary
[What's the rest of that little ditty?]
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:14 pm

floatingingalway wrote:
Mary, Mary quite contrary
[What's the rest of that little ditty?]

How does your hair-do grow...
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:37 pm

Only 20 votes in for the Worst. You are all too nice Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:28 pm

floatingingalway wrote:
Mary, Mary quite contrary
[What's the rest of that little ditty?]

Which one?

Mary, Mary, quite contrary,
except when on the doss,
flying high
through an American sky
on a freebie paid by Fás.

Mary, Mary, quite contrary,
especially with McDowell
The south east boss
whose defeat no los
being a political Simon Cowell.
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:44 am

Damn this site far too democratic we can only vote once !! Though I see we can change our minds , i wonder how that would work in real life, say a one month period to re vote!! I 'd say the Greens might have felt that if it applied last time !!!
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:54 am

What ? What's this business about changing minds FA ?

Only one vote though right ?
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:05 am

you can cancel your vote on the right above. presumably you can vote again. I am afraid to try though, in cash DG goes down 20%.

The secret ballot was a terrible thing for the "jin-tree

on another topic , came through Dublin airport tonight, passport control to baggage hall and the blue channel is now straight in front on you. As I had no baggage it took about 5 minutes from plane to the street.
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:12 am

I did Dawson Street to sitting at the Gate waiting for the aircraft in 25 minutes a couple of weeks ago on the Aircoach.

I rarely bring luggage, I generally check in online and I often fly back late in the evening, so the airport is usually quite a quick experience for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:32 am

Frightened Albanian wrote:
you can cancel your vote on the right above. presumably you can vote again. I am afraid to try though, in cash DG goes down 20%.

The secret ballot was a terrible thing for the "jin-tree

on another topic , came through Dublin airport tonight, passport control to baggage hall and the blue channel is now straight in front on you. As I had no baggage it took about 5 minutes from plane to the street.

Was the flight from Tirana a direct one?
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:02 am

No, no direct Albania flights, through Rome sunny
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:18 pm

I voted for Mary Harney as the Worst Politician of the Year for a variety of reasons.
Firstly, I voted for her because I believe she is a dire Minister for Health. Ideologically wedded to a proven failure of an economic theory, she is insisting on imposing the horrors of the US health system on us. Regardless of the performance of the HSE, Harney is pursuing a privatisation agenda in the health service and its implementation by stealth is impacting the entire system in a negative way.

Secondly, she is part of one of the biggest conflicts of interest in Irish public life. Her husband has a lobbying company whose clients include US commercial health companies. In any other country in Western Europe, this one fact would be the subject of intense scrutiny. No so in Ireland. The potential exists for seriously corrupt influence-peddling and the steering of public policy yet this seems to be regarded as normal in Ireland. It is as if we accept the existence of questionable relationships as par for the course. It is an extremely unhealthy situation.

Finally, in the year the PDs died, a re-assessment must be made as to how that party declined to such an extent as to make it unviable. While McDowell was a poor party political leader and Cannon arrived too late to save the thing, it was under Harney that the rot set in. In her tenure as leader, it was a party of parachute candidates, celebrity bit-players and style over substance. She was never a great vote getter herself and the hard graft of constituency work is not her thing. It was the leitmotif of her party. No hard graft, just celebrity candidates and a lot of meaningless guff about being an "issues-driven party". Not that I am complaining. The demise of the PDs filled me with joy. A lot of people blame McDowell for the party's demise but it was Harney who did most to sow the seeds of the PDs own destruction.

Some ascribe a reputation for competence to Harney with no evidence to back this up. Her career, hopefully entering its final chapter now, will be remembered on the "achievement" side as the remover of smog from Dublin and on the downside as a poor Trade & Enterprise Minister who failed to give sufficient impetus to domestic industry and spent 7 years cutting ribbons with Americans and doing photo-ops. Her failures in health are well documented elsewhere.

She will also be remembered for the 6 and a half year delay she imposed on the decision to build the second terminal in Dublin Airport. She wanted one of her friends, either Michael O'Leary or the McEvaddy brothers, to get the opportunity to build and operate a private terminal. Because Mary Harney has been a loyal servant of private capital, first, last and always. Interestingly, all these guys were present at her wedding to the man she appointed to be the then Chairman of scandal-plagued Fàs, former IBEC knob, Brian Geoghgan. This devotion to private enterprise, alas, does not stretch to her paycheques. Mary Harney has never worked a single solitary day in the private sector. Every remuneration cheque she has ever received has been funded by the taxpayer. And with the gold-plated pensions politicians have carved out for themselves, the taxpayer will be burdened with the funding of Harney for many years into the future.

An appalling politician among some very serious contenders for that description.


Last edited by Slim Buddha on Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:30 pm

Well said Slim Buddha.

If this was about voting for the worst Irish politician ever, she'd be ranking above there with the top contenders. When I think of some of the legislation and referenda that passed whilst she was in a position of power, bending elbows and whispering in ears, I feel like puking, the 'Keep Ireland White' referendum, for example.
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:34 pm

Slim Buddha wrote:
I voted for Mary Harney as the Worst Politician of the Year for a variety of reasons.
Firstly, I voted for her because I believe she is a dire Minister for Health. Ideologically wedded to a proven failure of an economic theory, she is insisting on imposing the horrors of the US health system on us. Regardless of the performance of the HSE, Harney is pursuing a privatisation agenda in the health service and its implementation by stealth is impacting the entire system in a negative way.

Secondly, she is part of one of the biggest conflicts of interest in Irish public life. Her husband has a lobbying company whose clients include US commercial health companies. In any other country in Western Europe, this one be the subject of intense scrutiny. No so in Ireland. The potential exists for potentially corrupt influence-peddling and steering public policy yet this seems to be regarded as normal in Ireland. It is as if we accept the existence of questionable relationships as par for the course. It is an extremely unhealthy situation.

Finally, in the year the PDs died, a re-assessment must be made as to how that party declined to such an extent as to make it unviable. While McDowell was a poor party political leader and Cannon arrived too late to save the thing, it was under Harney that the rot set in. In her tenure as leader, it was a party of parachute candidates, celebrity bit-players and style over substance. She was never a great vote getter herself and the hard graft of constituency work is not her thing. It was the leitmotif of her party. No hard graft, just celebrity candidates and a lot of meaningless guff about being an "issues-driven party". Not that I am complaining. The demise of the PDs filled me with joy. A lot of people blame McDowell for the party's demise but it was Harney who did most to sow the seeds of the PDs own destruction.

Some ascribe a reputation for competence to Harney with no evidence to back this up. Her career, hopefully entering its final chapter now, will be remembered on the "achievement" side as the remover of smog from Dublin and on the downside as a poor Trade & Enterprise Minister who failed to give sufficient impetus to domestic industry and spent 7 years cutting ribbons with Americans and doing photo-ops. Her failures in health are well documented elsewhere.

She will also be remembered for the 6 and a half year delay she imposed on the decision to build the second terminal in Dublin Airport. She wanted one of her friends, either Michael O'Leary or the McEvaddy brothers, to get the opportunity to build and operate a private terminal. Because Mary Harney has been a loyal servant of private capital, first, last and always. Interestingly, allthese guys were present at her wedding to the man she appointed to be the then Chairman of scandal-plagued Fàs, former IBEC knob, Brian Geoghgan. This devotion to private enterprise, alas, does not stretch to her paycheques. Mary Harney has never worked a single solitary day in the private sector. Every remuneration cheque she has ever received has been funded by the taxpayer. And with the gold-plated pensions politicians have carved out for themselves, the taxpayer will be burdened with the funding of Harney for many years into the future.

An appalling politician among some very serious contenders for that description.

Jaysus we know your real identity isn't Stephen Collins anyway ! Did you read his book Breaking the Mould ? He makes out that they were serious crusaders with high standards who were almost singularly responsible for pulling Ireland out of the mire of the 80s and the Haughey shenannigans. What's your opinion on how they introduced tons of policy changes that ultimately had some effect on business and all that trickle-down stuff ?

I'm an interested impartial observer by the way.
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:07 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Slim Buddha wrote:
I voted for Mary Harney as the Worst Politician of the Year for a variety of reasons.
Firstly, I voted for her because I believe she is a dire Minister for Health. Ideologically wedded to a proven failure of an economic theory, she is insisting on imposing the horrors of the US health system on us. Regardless of the performance of the HSE, Harney is pursuing a privatisation agenda in the health service and its implementation by stealth is impacting the entire system in a negative way.

Secondly, she is part of one of the biggest conflicts of interest in Irish public life. Her husband has a lobbying company whose clients include US commercial health companies. In any other country in Western Europe, this one be the subject of intense scrutiny. No so in Ireland. The potential exists for potentially corrupt influence-peddling and steering public policy yet this seems to be regarded as normal in Ireland. It is as if we accept the existence of questionable relationships as par for the course. It is an extremely unhealthy situation.

Finally, in the year the PDs died, a re-assessment must be made as to how that party declined to such an extent as to make it unviable. While McDowell was a poor party political leader and Cannon arrived too late to save the thing, it was under Harney that the rot set in. In her tenure as leader, it was a party of parachute candidates, celebrity bit-players and style over substance. She was never a great vote getter herself and the hard graft of constituency work is not her thing. It was the leitmotif of her party. No hard graft, just celebrity candidates and a lot of meaningless guff about being an "issues-driven party". Not that I am complaining. The demise of the PDs filled me with joy. A lot of people blame McDowell for the party's demise but it was Harney who did most to sow the seeds of the PDs own destruction.

Some ascribe a reputation for competence to Harney with no evidence to back this up. Her career, hopefully entering its final chapter now, will be remembered on the "achievement" side as the remover of smog from Dublin and on the downside as a poor Trade & Enterprise Minister who failed to give sufficient impetus to domestic industry and spent 7 years cutting ribbons with Americans and doing photo-ops. Her failures in health are well documented elsewhere.

She will also be remembered for the 6 and a half year delay she imposed on the decision to build the second terminal in Dublin Airport. She wanted one of her friends, either Michael O'Leary or the McEvaddy brothers, to get the opportunity to build and operate a private terminal. Because Mary Harney has been a loyal servant of private capital, first, last and always. Interestingly, allthese guys were present at her wedding to the man she appointed to be the then Chairman of scandal-plagued Fàs, former IBEC knob, Brian Geoghgan. This devotion to private enterprise, alas, does not stretch to her paycheques. Mary Harney has never worked a single solitary day in the private sector. Every remuneration cheque she has ever received has been funded by the taxpayer. And with the gold-plated pensions politicians have carved out for themselves, the taxpayer will be burdened with the funding of Harney for many years into the future.

An appalling politician among some very serious contenders for that description.

Jaysus we know your real identity isn't Stephen Collins anyway ! Did you read his book Breaking the Mould ? He makes out that they were serious crusaders with high standards who were almost singularly responsible for pulling Ireland out of the mire of the 80s and the Haughey shenannigans. What's your opinion on how they introduced tons of policy changes that ultimately had some effect on business and all that trickle-down stuff ?

I'm an interested impartial observer by the way.

Collins is a big fan of them alright. Initially, when Des O'Malley said he would like the party to have a liberal economic policy and a social policy akin to countries in Scandinavia, I thought the idea was an interesting one. By the time Harney became the established leader, any pretence to radical social policy was gone and economic policy was what is now instantly recognisable as the bog-standard neo-liberalist greed-orientated nonsense which has failed so spectacularly this year. No genius involved here, just a slavish adherance to a passing economic fad.

It says a lot about Fianna Fail that a handful of "on-message" shysters posing as a political party could act as the tail to wag the FF dog for 7 years between '97 and '04. This, of course, was made possible by having the de facto PD, Champagne Charlie as Finance Minister doggedly implementing PD economic policy until he had to go. (Yes, it DID take the FF backbenchers 7 years to figure out that McCreevy was a PD).

No I don't think the PDs broke any mould. Neo-liberalist economics was widespread in the 80s and 90s. They simply plugged into the zeitgeist. And now that neo-liberalism is gone, so are they. Good riddance.
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:31 pm

Interesting stuff - on the economic fad. Greenspan wrote off the Glass-Teagall Act in the early parts of this new american century, did our neo liberals here and elsewhere get caught up in that lending frenzy as well ? The Act was set up in 1933 or so to regulate the banking industry. Basically it is a brake on printing of money. Money-printing is inflationary, in the textbooks, thus we saw rocketting house prices, new cars costing 20k and other stuff going skywayd. Everything was kept from going out of absolute kilter by cheap oil.

Was there a design to this whole thing - it could have the positives of stimulating growth in one hemisphere and trade relies on differences between hemispheres. Eventually the East will do this too and we could be merrily go around in circles. Or have I got it totally wrong.

Have you any positive thougts for McCreevy by the way ? Your post makes FF look like again that they have no ideology but blow with the wind - perhaps that's why they've gambled on the Greens this time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-Steagall
Quote :
The argument for preserving Glass-Steagall (as written in 1987):

1. Conflicts of interest characterize the granting of credit – lending – and the use of credit – investing – by the same entity, which led to abuses that originally produced the Act

2. Depository institutions possess enormous financial power, by virtue of their control of other people’s money; its extent must be limited to ensure soundness and competition in the market for funds, whether loans or investments.

3. Securities activities can be risky, leading to enormous losses. Such losses could threaten the integrity of deposits. In turn, the Government insures deposits and could be required to pay large sums if depository institutions were to collapse as the result of securities losses.

4. Depository institutions are supposed to be managed to limit risk. Their managers thus may not be conditioned to operate prudently in more speculative securities businesses. An example is the crash of real estate investment trusts sponsored by bank holding companies (in the 1970s and 1980s).

The argument against preserving the Act (as written in 1987):

1. Depository institutions will now operate in “deregulated” financial markets in which distinctions between loans, securities, and deposits are not well drawn. They are losing market shares to securities firms that are not so strictly regulated, and to foreign financial institutions operating without much restriction from the Act.

2. Conflicts of interest can be prevented by enforcing legislation against them, and by separating the lending and credit functions through forming distinctly separate subsidiaries of financial firms.

3. The securities activities that depository institutions are seeking are both low-risk by their very nature, and would reduce the total risk of organizations offering them – by diversification.

4. In much of the rest of the world, depository institutions operate simultaneously and successfully in both banking and securities markets. Lessons learned from their experience can be applied to our national financial structure and regulation.[13]
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:32 pm

Hermes wrote:
Well said Slim Buddha.

If this was about voting for the worst Irish politician ever, she'd be ranking above there with the top contenders. When I think of some of the legislation and referenda that passed whilst she was in a position of power, bending elbows and whispering in ears, I feel like puking, the 'Keep Ireland White' referendum, for example.
Remember though Hermes, that passed 79-21 - a massive vote. A referendum on "Do you like cake?" probably wouldn't get a bigger majority.

I agree it is sickening, but there's more to blame than Harney and Micky Mac for that. They just cynically harnessed the inner greed that lurked within so many of us. Irish people need to take a long hard look at what we have become and how we could deny citizenship to children born here is only one symptom of a much more fundamental malaise.

Sadly, most people bought into the PDs neo-liberal survival-of-the-fittest devil-take-the-hindmost mé-féin I'm-all-right-Jackism during the Celtic Tiger and now a lot of those dupes are going to learn what it's like to be the hindmost and they won't like it one little bit. This is what you get if you vote for laissez faire government. It seems to me that pensioners and teachers (2 heavy FF demographics ) left it a little late to start worrying about the little people.

A small and spiteful part of me thinks they deserve it, but sadly for the other half of us who never voted for Harney and her like, we'll all suffer too.

Remember, no matter how bad things get, at least one third of the electorate will vote FF next time. What does that tell us about Irish people?

Maybe those poor children denied citizenship by the Keep-Ireland-White referendum will one day be grateful that they never had the shame of being associated with such a narrow minded crowd of gombeenist fools?
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:41 pm

Quote :
Have you any positive thougts for McCreevy by the way ? Your post makes FF look like again that they have no ideology but blow with the wind - perhaps that's why they've gambled on the Greens this time.

I'd agree with that. I think FF have no real idea(s) at all, so they've formed a policy of bringing in smaller parties to provide the policy direction. Which small party it is depends on which way the electoral wind is blowing. Bertie presumably reckoned Green ideas were flavour of the year, so he brought the Greens on board even though he didn't need to.
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:50 pm

ibis wrote:
Quote :
Have you any positive thougts for McCreevy by the way ? Your post makes FF look like again that they have no ideology but blow with the wind - perhaps that's why they've gambled on the Greens this time.

I'd agree with that. I think FF have no real idea(s) at all, so they've formed a policy of bringing in smaller parties to provide the policy direction. Which small party it is depends on which way the electoral wind is blowing. Bertie presumably reckoned Green ideas were flavour of the year, so he brought the Greens on board even though he didn't need to.

There was an exchange yesterday in the Dáil between Cowen and Gilmore where Gilmore was asking him what strategy FF had. Cowen said they were taking ideas from anywhere and they'd even take them from Gilmore if he could provide them. His head dropped in the realisation of what he'd said then.

Even though he was on fire, it was a very different Cowen from the News At One of pre-General Election against Bruton on the state of the public finances.
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:25 pm

Secondly, she is part of one of the biggest conflicts of interest in
Quote :
Irish public life. Her husband has a lobbying company whose clients include US commercial health companies. In any other country in Western Europe, this one be the subject of intense scrutiny. No so in Ireland. The potential exists for potentially corrupt influence-peddling and steering public policy yet this seems to be regarded as normal in Ireland. It is as if we accept the existence of questionable relationships as par for the course. It is an extremely unhealthy situation.

And not only that Slim, but the conflict of interest is actively being exploited by Harney's husband. Kieran Allen (UCD/SWP) has written how her husband Brian Geoghegan lobbied her on behalf of the drinks industry to drop legislation aimed at tackling the dangerous youth drinking culture, which had gone through all the necessary democratic processes - consulation, drafting, agreement etc. She dumped it.

Her deparment is paying his company huge sums of money for consultancy contracts. At the same time he is lobbying her on behalf of private US health firms (many of whom have been trashed in the US courts for their behaviour) who are the beneificiaris of subsidies and grants approved by her. He collects a fat fee for that and she gets her massive ministerial salary.

The UK is not a perfect country but it's a certainty that these two would have been howled of business long since if this shite was going down over there. I've drawn this to the attention of countless journalists and politicians across the spectrum. Omerta. WTF is going on?
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PostSubject: Re: Machine Nation Worst Irish Politician of 2008 *** POLLING OPEN NOW   Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:28 pm

Aragon wrote:
Secondly, she is part of one of the biggest conflicts of interest in
Quote :
Irish public life. Her husband has a lobbying company whose clients include US commercial health companies. In any other country in Western Europe, this one be the subject of intense scrutiny. No so in Ireland. The potential exists for potentially corrupt influence-peddling and steering public policy yet this seems to be regarded as normal in Ireland. It is as if we accept the existence of questionable relationships as par for the course. It is an extremely unhealthy situation.

And not only that Slim, but the conflict of interest is actively being exploited by Harney's husband. Kieran Allen (UCD/SWP) has written how her husband Brian Geoghegan lobbied her on behalf of the drinks industry to drop legislation aimed at tackling the dangerous youth drinking culture, which had gone through all the necessary democratic processes - consulation, drafting, agreement etc. She dumped it.

Her deparment is paying his company huge sums of money for consultancy contracts. At the same time he is lobbying her on behalf of private US health firms (many of whom have been trashed in the US courts for their behaviour) who are the beneificiaris of subsidies and grants approved by her. He collects a fat fee for that and she gets her massive ministerial salary.

The UK is not a perfect country but it's a certainty that these two would have been howled of business long since if this shite was going down over there. I've drawn this to the attention of countless journalists and politicians across the spectrum. Omerta. WTF is going on?

Aragon - please substantiate that with links or delete it if you can't.
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