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 FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud

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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:19 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
tonys wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
There's no getting away from it, it was a fine post and a very well crafted first paragraph ending in Milton.

Wasn't there more innuendo about Cayman Islands there during the Summer ? I can't for the life of me remember what the detail was but wasn't there ? Something to do with Bertie ???
No I don’t think so, I know there was a good Cayman waffle about Albert earlier in the year, but even he can’t remember that. Smile

His first paragraph could have ended in Trafalgar Square for all I care, it still didn’t address the point at issue.

Reynolds ? Something about a politician having just enough time to stop off there or the Government jet stopping there unnecessarily or something ... arrgh. I can't seem to remember it being associated with Reynolds .. maybe it was Michael Martin ?

So the connection between Fás opening an account over there is out of the question so tonys ? I know there's no evidence for it but they are refusing to show the receipts for 5.7 million - who says one of the places it might have went was there ? Even more impossible than the moon landings not having happened ?
Well if people are really determined to chase their arse, who am I to interfere.
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:25 am

I missed the missing 5.6 million Auditor#9 - do you have a link for that?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A04E0DD123EF930A15757C0A961958260
There was a Haughey/Dunne connection:

And a Reynolds one:http://sec.edgar-online.com/2000/09/22/15/0001015769-00-000263/Section14.asp

But I don't see any relationship with the Florida trips.


Last edited by cactus flower on Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:32 am

cactus flower wrote:
I missed the missing 5.6 million Auditor#9 - do you have a link for that?

Examiner last week

Quote :
Tuesday, November 25, 2008

€5.7m bill: Fás refuses to clarify expenses

By Mary Regan, Political Reporter
THE state training agency Fás is refusing to hand over details of how it spent a massive €5.7 million on travel and other expenses in 2007 to the Dáil committee investigating its financial affairs, it has been revealed.

tonys wrote:
Well if people are really determined to chase their arse, who am I to interfere.

Well yeah, if they are refusing to hand over details of 5.7 million then it could be anywhere or have gone anywhere or been spent on anything. The point is - the public should be able to know where it went shouldn't they ? Without having to hand over a grand for the info either.

Harney's hairdo really is absolutely irrelevant in this and will take the wind out of news like that above.
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:40 am

That is €2,500 travel and subsistence per staff member throughout FAS. A fair amount of money, given that a lot of them probably don't claim any travel.

What bothers me is that they claim the Public Accounts Committee don't have the legal right to get the detais from them. Given what the OECD said about insufficient controls, that may turn out to be he case.
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:42 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
I missed the missing 5.6 million Auditor#9 - do you have a link for that?

Examiner last week

Quote :
Tuesday, November 25, 2008

€5.7m bill: Fás refuses to clarify expenses

By Mary Regan, Political Reporter
THE state training agency Fás is refusing to hand over details of how it spent a massive €5.7 million on travel and other expenses in 2007 to the Dáil committee investigating its financial affairs, it has been revealed.

tonys wrote:
Well if people are really determined to chase their arse, who am I to interfere.

Well yeah, if they are refusing to hand over details of 5.7 million then it could be anywhere or have gone anywhere or been spent on anything. The point is - the public should be able to know where it went shouldn't they ? Without having to hand over a grand for the info either.

Harney's hairdo really is absolutely irrelevant in this and will take the wind out of news like that above.
The public are so entitled, through a committee or a question in the house, but not through every or any headline chaser in Dublin, I’d charge those B……s 10,000 a pop.
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:03 am

tonys wrote:
The public are so entitled, through a committee or a question in the house, but not through every or any headline chaser in Dublin, I’d charge those B……s 10,000 a pop.

Shouldn't it be a matter of course that public company accounts are published each year - in meticulous detail - and the full document can be bought in hardback copy for 100 quid around Budget time each year. The softback which comes out later costs 5.99. It's free on the web a month later for anyone who can wait.

Why isn't it the case that accounts aren't published or kept so as to be accessible to the public who finance these departments in the first place ? Don't you think people deserve to know where money goes, what we're getting for it, how savings and changes could be made and all that ? I saw one report that a public toilet was costing the council 40k a year for maintenance. One of those nice fancy black iron public toilets. I think it's perfectly ok to question that and indeed for the public to have the right to get that information.

It's a comfortable and clean machine, that public toilet but hardly worth 40k a year.
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:03 am

Re Cayman islands.

Thats dirt, pure and simple, and its one back for the people of Ireland, so there!

Nah without being flippant, to my knowledge its baseless as an allegation, but worthy of a bleedin question which is what it was.

I do really hope that Harney has not stooped so low as to avoid tax(as in what tax?), though I wouldnt put it past others, yet if you read one of my other posts above, I specifically said that it was a characteristic of this government to be direct and so far "legal" in their fleecing of the country. As a regular Joe(in terms of salary and expenditure) it boggles the mind as to why someone who is on something like 250,000 p.a. and is married to someone very wealthy in their own right, and basically does not have to put money aside for a pension, would become so greedy so as to cheat the taxman. That it has happened before however should put us on our guard, wouldnt you think - pristine reputations notwithstanding?

But Mary Harney's reputation is not the most important thing here which is at stake, and thats putting it mildly.There has been a breech of trust with the people and that is serious. Nothing really wrong has happened but it does appear that the public interest is no longer the only interest. While its not ok to publically try people on baseless allegations, its certainly also not ok to be ready to place that persons integrity before that of the common good, especially when that person is an elected representative charged with a serious responsibility. A good and honourable person should have nothing to fear from groundless taunts. Yet it was not the people who made the first breech of trust. It was the politicians who did.

The governement by their action are no longer beyond reproach and in anycase I have a right to ask any question I choose. I'm not sending anyone to court - am I?
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:13 am

Respvblica wrote:
Re Cayman islands.

Thats dirt, pure and simple, and its one back for the people of Ireland, so there!

Nah without being flippant, to my knowledge its baseless as an allegation, but worthy of a bleedin question which is what it was.

I do really hope that Harney has not stooped so low as to avoid tax(as in what tax?), though I wouldnt put it past others, yet if you read one of my other posts above, I specifically said that it was a characteristic of this government to be direct and so far "legal" in their fleecing of the country. As a regular Joe(in terms of salary and expenditure) it boggles the mind as to why someone who is on something like 250,000 p.a. and is married to someone very wealthy in their own right, and basically does not have to put money aside for a pension, would become so greedy so as to cheat the taxman. That it has happened before however should put us on our guard, wouldnt you think - pristine reputations notwithstanding?

But Mary Harney's reputation is not the most important thing here which is at stake, and thats putting it mildly.There has been a breech of trust with the people and that is serious. Nothing really wrong has happened but it does appear that the public interest is no longer the only interest. While its not ok to publically try people on baseless allegations, its certainly also not ok to be ready to place that persons integrity before that of the common good, especially when that person is an elected representative charged with a serious responsibility. A good and honourable person should have nothing to fear from groundless taunts. Yet it was not the people who made the first breech of trust. It was the politicians who did.

The governement by their action are no longer beyond reproach and in anycase I have a right to ask any question I choose. I'm not sending anyone to court - am I?
No, you’re just throwing muck as apparently you think is your right and I’m just pointing out that you are throwing muck as is my right.
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:16 pm

Here it is in the SBP this morning ...

Quote :
Gardai investigating alleged fraud of €500,000 at Fas
Sunday, November 30, 2008 By John Burke and Ian Kehoe
Gardai are investigating an alleged expenses fraud at Fas that is suspected to have cost the state training agency more than €500,000 over a seven-year period.

As part of the investigation, gardai are examining whether internal controls failed to detect a litany of bogus invoices, fake e-mail addresses and non-existent firms. The irregularities were detected in recent weeks and the matter is the subject of a major Garda investigation. A mid-level employee has been suspended on full pay.

http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS-qqqs=news-qqqid=37949-qqqx=1.asp
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:21 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Here it is in the SBP this morning ...

Quote :
Gardai investigating alleged fraud of €500,000 at Fas
Sunday, November 30, 2008 By John Burke and Ian Kehoe
Gardai are investigating an alleged expenses fraud at Fas that is suspected to have cost the state training agency more than €500,000 over a seven-year period.

As part of the investigation, gardai are examining whether internal controls failed to detect a litany of bogus invoices, fake e-mail addresses and non-existent firms. The irregularities were detected in recent weeks and the matter is the subject of a major Garda investigation. A mid-level employee has been suspended on full pay.

http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS-qqqs=news-qqqid=37949-qqqx=1.asp


Fraud can be attempted in any organisation. If it goes on for seven years, unfettered, serious questions have to be asked about structures of governance, reporting and accountability as well as gross negligence and / or collusion.
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:31 pm

cactus flower wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
Here it is in the SBP this morning ...

Quote :
Gardai investigating alleged fraud of €500,000 at Fas
Sunday, November 30, 2008 By John Burke and Ian Kehoe
Gardai are investigating an alleged expenses fraud at Fas that is suspected to have cost the state training agency more than €500,000 over a seven-year period.

As part of the investigation, gardai are examining whether internal controls failed to detect a litany of bogus invoices, fake e-mail addresses and non-existent firms. The irregularities were detected in recent weeks and the matter is the subject of a major Garda investigation. A mid-level employee has been suspended on full pay.

http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS-qqqs=news-qqqid=37949-qqqx=1.asp

Fraud can be attempted in any organisation. If it goes on for seven years, unfettered, serious questions have to be asked about structures of governance, reporting and accountability as well as gross negligence and / or collusion.
That article says the C&AG found 'irregularities' during the year but a few weeks later the effectiveness of the systems was signed off by McLoone. We have a C&AG that seems to not have enough teeth to put in the arse of fellas who blur the edges. Should this body - the Comptroller and Auditor General - not have more power to slap these fellas around ?
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:43 pm

There was an article also on the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) saying that they don't have powers to investigate unless the Auditor General first indicates a problem. Then they don't have enough powers to investigate.

Surely what we need also is a specially trained Fraud Branch of the Gardai with accountancy skills who can go in and investigate when the problems come up. Perhaps we already do?
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:58 pm

cactus flower wrote:
There was an article also on the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) saying that they don't have powers to investigate unless the Auditor General first indicates a problem. Then they don't have enough powers to investigate.

Surely what we need also is a specially trained Fraud Branch of the Gardai with accountancy skills who can go in and investigate when the problems come up. Perhaps we already do?

Is that the sequence these things happen in ? More in the features section of the SBP. I'm off to just buy the paper,dammit.

Quote :
There was a €6,962 dinner in the Merrion Hotel, Dublin, for 33 people in June 2006,understood to have been held in honour of visitors from Nasa. The tip paid by Fas after the dinner came to €908. Molloy took to the airwaves to defend the spending, but only succeeded in talking himself out of a job. His scalp, however, might not be enough. The list of issues which Allen and the PAC are examining is long and quickly growing.

The name that keeps popping up is Greg Craig. The PAC’s inquiries relate to the findings of a special internal audit inquiry into expenditure and other matters at Craig’s former corporate affairs division at Fas.An internal audit uncovered alleged breaches of financial controls in his division over a number of years. Corporate affairs was criticised by the Comptroller& Auditor General, which said the agency was failing to achieve value for money in its dealings with its principal advertising agency.

It also said that funds had been misdirected from a major website project. As the pressure mounted, divisions began to emerge in the upper echelons of Fas. When he first obtained the internal audit into the division, Molloy went on the defensive and criticised parts of it. Saul, head of the audit committee, wrote back to reject each of its criticisms in turn.

Earlier this month, Molloy told the PAC that legal reasons prevented him from saying why a senior internal audit official at Fas, Terry Corcoran, was moved to another position after completion of the internal audit report.
http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS+FEATURES-qqqm=nav-qqqid=37912-qqqx=1.asp
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:44 am

[quote]
Quote :
A PIANIST was hired to play at a reception in Mary Harney's luxury suite at a top Cape Town hotel because the music would be "conducive to an atmosphere that would get results".

A spokesman rejected criticism of Ms Harney's stay in the presidential suite of the Table Bay Hotel -- on a FAS trip to South Africa eight years ago -- and indicated that it was felt that music would help the then Enterprise Minister woo her business guests.

The spokesman insisted: "This reception in her hotel suite was attended by many people, including Irish journalists, and if there were anything noteworthy about it, they might have been expected to remark upon it."

The cost of acquiring the outside pianist to play the baby grand piano in Ms Harney's €2,600-a-night suite was unclear last night. The work was performed by concert-trained artiste Christine McLeroy after a late FAS dash to obtain a classical musician.

Ms Harney's spokesman was unable to say yesterday who had requested the pianist to perform, amid suggestions the request may have come directly from the former Tanaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment.

While all bills for the trip to South Africa in 2000 were met by FAS -- as with her subsequent trip by Government jet to Florida in 2004 -- the spokesman said the trip was "official business" in connection with a jobs fair.

There still seem to be some people who think that Marney Harney is a politician who represents integrity in political life. I don't understand what this is based on.

Here is an interesting posts from the experts over at Beaut.ie http://beaut.ie/blog/?p=6875

They say, and they should know, that no way was that just a wash and blow dry.
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:53 am

cactus flower wrote:
There still seem to be some people who think that Marney Harney is a politician who represents integrity in political life. I don't understand what this is based on.

Here is an interesting posts from the experts over at Beaut.ie http://beaut.ie/blog/?p=6875

They say, and they should know, that no way was that just a wash and blow dry.
Are you takin’ the piss here or wha’
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:56 am

How much females have to spend on their hair is worthy of a thread in itself but I've no idea how a wash and blow dry could cost that much.

I'm always telling the girlfriend to go the barber - much cheaper Razz.
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:57 am

tonys wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
There still seem to be some people who think that Marney Harney is a politician who represents integrity in political life. I don't understand what this is based on.

Here is an interesting posts from the experts over at Beaut.ie http://beaut.ie/blog/?p=6875

They say, and they should know, that no way was that just a wash and blow dry.
Are you takin’ the piss here or wha’

HeeHee. Smile

I came across beaut.ie last week when I was searching for stuff on Craig. Shocking gossipers over there.

We never gossip here...
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:06 am

johnfás wrote:
How much females have to spend on their hair is worthy of a thread in itself but I've no idea how a wash and blow dry could cost that much.

I'm always telling the girlfriend to go the barber - much cheaper Razz.

http://columbusga.salonseeker.com/FL/Cocoa-Beach/Solutions-Unique-Salon-ID-59388.html

What's "facial grooming"?
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:07 am

I know what very few of those listed services are...

Is it a bit like a hot towel shave? Razz
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:09 am

johnfás wrote:
I know what very few of those listed services are...

Is it a bit like a hot towel shave? Razz
Jesus, people.
Where are we goin’ here.
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:11 am

Only asking Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:29 am

The more one reads about Fàs, the more the impression is created that it was selected as a suitable vehicle to host a major slush fund for designated troughsnouters. Well, that's the impression I have of it.
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:29 pm

The Fás budget was the equivalent of 600€ million in 1998 but crept up to 1000€ million in 2008 even though unemployment was 7% in 1998 and had declined to 6% by 2008

scratch
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:26 pm

Slim Buddha wrote:
The more one reads about Fàs, the more the impression is created that it was selected as a suitable vehicle to host a major slush fund for designated troughsnouters. Well, that's the impression I have of it.
Slim.Mike Yarwood couldn't do a better impression of the trufflesniffing that has taken place in Quangoland than the appointees at FAS have performed imho.It would make you wonder if there are any budding Rory Bremners lurking about the Boardsty's of various other noble State funded franchises.I wonder how prudent the big lads at Starship Ireland and the commercially sensitive IDA have been with the airgead disbursed under their watch,for example?

What do Fourfas do,and should thy change their name?
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PostSubject: Re: FAS management Fiasco - Employee Admits €1m Fraud   Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:55 pm

Forget about the government, I'm starting to wonder what the opposition where doing all these years. Havent they a duty to investigate these things and bring them to public light? Surely they saw some of what is going on all down the years. Why were they so conwardly. What is wrong with our system that makes them keep quiet?

Useless - and as a exFGer - I have to say bloody useless! Shame on the opposition too I say.

Shame on Fine Gael, Labour, and the rest for not offering the people permamanent protection against this kind of misconduct. And I'm also tired of all this whiter than white attitude as well. Personal integrity and reputation count for nothing - only the peoples interests.
And the people's interests for ever. It takes more than a mere change of government to get things right, dont you know.
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