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 Pay Back Time - Bankers return money to Bank !!!

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PostSubject: Pay Back Time - Bankers return money to Bank !!!   Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:59 am

While we are paying out 500,000 euro golden parachute to the disgraced head of FAS, this is going on:


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Ex-UBS bosses repay millions to troubled Swiss bank Print
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Former executives who oversaw massive losses at Swiss banking giant UBS will repay a further 22 million francs (€14.7m), chairman Peter Kurer said.

The repayments by the unidentified individuals bring to nearly €47m the amount of money handed back to the bank by former executives over the past year.

“I am continuing to hold talks concerning further repayments and waivers, and would greatly welcome it if it comes to that,” Mr Kurer told a special shareholders meeting.

Isn't it time that some of the superprofits, in land sales and other easy pickings made in Ireland the last ten years were recouped ?
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PostSubject: Re: Pay Back Time - Bankers return money to Bank !!!   Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:37 pm

cactus flower wrote:
While we are paying out 500,000 euro golden parachute to the disgraced head of FAS, this is going on:


Quote :
Ex-UBS bosses repay millions to troubled Swiss bank Print
Email+
Share28/11/2008 - 08:24:05
Former executives who oversaw massive losses at Swiss banking giant UBS will repay a further 22 million francs (€14.7m), chairman Peter Kurer said.

The repayments by the unidentified individuals bring to nearly €47m the amount of money handed back to the bank by former executives over the past year.

“I am continuing to hold talks concerning further repayments and waivers, and would greatly welcome it if it comes to that,” Mr Kurer told a special shareholders meeting.

Isn't it time that some of the superprofits, in land sales and other easy pickings made in Ireland the last ten years were recouped ?

Very interesting.

Unlike the Irish(and most other europeans), these Swiss know a thing or two about accountability I'd say eh? It probably comes from the way that democracy and responsibility is ingrained so deeply in their culture.

The great example which our own high-living politicians are giving is trickling down through the corporate private area as much as the public executives, right down to the ordinary Joe Soap. No one is responsible for anything and no one is held to account.

We can try the FAS guy and the bankers and regulators, fine them, and then throw them into prison, but it wont do a thing until we get a culture of democratic accountability. The present system will always ensure a culture of clientelism and unaccountability and like the hydra you may strike the monster's head off only to see another one quickly grow in its place.
he more this goes on the more I am convinced that our only hope for a lasting solution is serious democratic reforms with direct democracy and separation pf powers in the government. Our problems wont be fixed overnight, and there will be teething troubles but over the course of a few decades we should see the younger generations of citizens, democractically empowered and responsible.
Then we will be truely cured of the sickness we currently have.
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PostSubject: Re: Pay Back Time - Bankers return money to Bank !!!   Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:27 pm

In a fundamental way the financial system is totally corrupt. The political class are either bought or have not the slightest idea what goes on. Opacity enables the scans and clientelism to endure. The attitude of those involved at the top are conceited and corrupt. It is about feathering their own nest, it is not about providing benifit or value or any greater good. The level of smugness has to be encountered first hand to fully appreciate the problem. The set up is in itself corrupting and attitudes so base that it can only change if those involved are forced to change their ways.

IMO we are currently witnessing fraud on an unbelievable scale. The misery that will result is on a par with the attrocities of the Nazi regime. People are losing their belongings, their savings, their pensions, their health care, their children will pick up the debt etc etc. Thousands, millions of lives are being ruined to keep this detritus afloat and in the comfort that they have become acoustomed.

The scale of the problem is so accute and the nature of the attitudes so deeply ingrained that for change to work those involved in this type of fraud need to be ruthlessly pursued and the severest penalties applied.

Perhaps political corruption, and financial fraud on this scale really should be considered as treason and a public execution or two may help clarify minds and keep some on the straight and narrow. Public executions at Tyburn served their purpose, but in this new age of reality TV I am sure we could do so much better. (you can tell what sort of mood I am in today!)
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PostSubject: Re: Pay Back Time - Bankers return money to Bank !!!   Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:00 pm

Squire wrote:
In a fundamental way the financial system is totally corrupt. The political class are either bought or have not the slightest idea what goes on. Opacity enables the scans and clientelism to endure. The attitude of those involved at the top are conceited and corrupt. It is about feathering their own nest, it is not about providing benifit or value or any greater good. The level of smugness has to be encountered first hand to fully appreciate the problem. The set up is in itself corrupting and attitudes so base that it can only change if those involved are forced to change their ways.

IMO we are currently witnessing fraud on an unbelievable scale. The misery that will result is on a par with the attrocities of the Nazi regime. People are losing their belongings, their savings, their pensions, their health care, their children will pick up the debt etc etc. Thousands, millions of lives are being ruined to keep this detritus afloat and in the comfort that they have become acoustomed.

The scale of the problem is so accute and the nature of the attitudes so deeply ingrained that for change to work those involved in this type of fraud need to be ruthlessly pursued and the severest penalties applied.

Perhaps political corruption, and financial fraud on this scale really should be considered as treason and a public execution or two may help clarify minds and keep some on the straight and narrow. Public executions at Tyburn served their purpose, but in this new age of reality TV I am sure we could do so much better. (you can tell what sort of mood I am in today!)

While I take exception to the Nazi comment, which was unique iin history, overall I dont think you are overstating the seriousness of the problem. We certainly do need to enact punitive measures but we can only do that when the people as a whole hae properly regained power. The sham democracy does nothing to ensure that we can eject and punish the political class that has been behind a lot of the corruption. In fact, given their mandate the "treason" from their willfull negligence is even more serious than that of the fraudulant bankers. But nothing is new. Africa and south america have been left rot while the politcians of the west wine and dine and do their damdest to ensure that global inequality is maintained. Now we see it more clearly because it directly affects us.

This should not be about individuals(although examples should be made). This is about a corrupt and self-serving political system which needs to be changed.
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PostSubject: Re: Pay Back Time - Bankers return money to Bank !!!   Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:02 pm

Resvpblica

I agree the person bought is a despicable wretch but the driving force is the purchaser who entices bribes or blackmails. in our situation it has been going on so long that it is virtually institutionalised. Sometimes a system can be so degraded it cannot be fixed and needs to be replaced. I have serious doubts about our concepts of democracy and political structures. They plainly don't work. I think part of the problem is the electorate don't vote for people of principle but instead vote for self interest and base their vote on promises. If the very base of the system functions in this manner what hope?
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PostSubject: Re: Pay Back Time - Bankers return money to Bank !!!   Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:06 pm

Squire wrote:
I think part of the problem is the electorate don't vote for people of principle but instead vote for self interest and base their vote on promises. If the very base of the system functions in this manner what hope?

"The biggest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter"

I think it was Winston Churchill who said that.
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PostSubject: Re: Pay Back Time - Bankers return money to Bank !!!   Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:53 pm

Squire wrote:
Resvpblica

I agree the person bought is a despicable wretch but the driving force is the purchaser who entices bribes or blackmails. in our situation it has been going on so long that it is virtually institutionalised. Sometimes a system can be so degraded it cannot be fixed and needs to be replaced. I have serious doubts about our concepts of democracy and political structures. They plainly don't work. I think part of the problem is the electorate don't vote for people of principle but instead vote for self interest and base their vote on promises. If the very base of the system functions in this manner what hope?

True, but you cant stop people from being self-interested, so failing that we need a system which ensures that one, or a group does not gain the ascendancy over the rest of people who make up the commonwealth (and I use the term "commonwealth" in place of state/nation/republic deliberatley here).
So far as possible, all decisions must be made by as many people as possible. Sure their aggregate decision may ensure stasis or dealock, but at least it will prevent real injustice. Switzerland is a shinging example of a country being propserous and equitable. It may not be perfect but it is a hell of a lot better than the rest of the so-called democracies.

Regarding the briber and the bribed, you have a point, but I see it differently in that the bribed politcian is mandated with a "sacred" duty by the people, to an extent that the briber isnt. There will always be wolves and they can be beaten back but if the shepherd is a knave then the sheep are truley finished.
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