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 Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border

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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:46 am

I was under the impression that Condoleeza Rice was calming the situation, not 'turning up the heat'. I presume you are arguing that the Americans are trying to start a war.

Yet again a vague remark about the impending doom of the Irish people. You remind me of one of those slasher film villains who are generally agents of righteous justice. Can I ask what great sins the Irish people committed in this particular context? Was it all that teenage exuberance and sex? Who's the virgin in all of this?
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:04 am

Quote :
The problem is what is in store for say the people of Ireland. Ho Ho Ho
905 wrote:
I was under the impression that Condoleeza Rice was calming the situation, not 'turning up the heat'. I presume you are arguing that the Americans are trying to start a war.

Yet again a vague remark about the impending doom of the Irish people. You remind me of one of those slasher film villains who are generally agents of righteous justice. Can I ask what great sins the Irish people committed in this particular context? Was it all that teenage exuberance and sex? Who's the virgin in all of this?



905 - I thought it was Santa wearing yd's avatar
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:16 am

If there is a nuclear exchange then the Irish will be in the same boat as everyone else, which is bad, but it is an Irish thread.

You think Rice is trying to calm the situation.
Well good for you, do you know anyone else that thinks so
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:05 am

US seeks to ease India-Pakistan tension
Quote :

Senior Indian diplomats said Ms Rice was on a damage control mission in Delhi as military tension between the neighbours could jeopardise US counter-terrorism efforts along the Pakistani-Afghan frontier. It could prompt Islamabad to move its troops fighting al-Qaeda and associated Taliban militants to the eastern frontier with India.

"The US does not want that to happen as it would impinge adversely on its ongoing military operations in Afghanistan," a senior western diplomat in Delhi said.
So that's a western diplomat and some Indian diplomats. Pakistan's Dawn newspaper also ran a story where Rice intervened to ease tensions between Pakistan and India. Whether true or not it shows where some in Pakistan thinks Rice stands (Al Jazeera - India dismisses hoax call claim).

Can you find sources to back up your argument?
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:14 am

There seems to be a theory that the attacks are Saudi backed and intended to undermine Obama's strategy, and another that they suit the US.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5263919.ece?&EMC-Bltn=IMYAX9

Truth be told they don't suit anyone in their right mind, as they are stirring up friction between two neighbouring nuclear powers with a history of conflict.

There are NWO reports in Pakistan that the US is under pressure from private Corporation/s to salvage the economic crisis by starting a war (target unknown).
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:10 pm

Senior Indian diplomats says Rice is on a damage control mission and a Western diplomat in Dehli agrees.

God help you 905 if you swallow that. Why not listen to what she said to Pakistan where she threatened a US attack

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C12%5C08%5Cstory_8-12-2008_pg7_55

Is that clear enough for you.

If you still think the US is trying to calm things you have these 2 donkeys flying there to say that Indian air strikes are justified

http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/07/stories/2008120757500100.htm

Posters like you will never admit being wrong so you will be back saying they meant something else or maybe you wont be back at all.

Regardless, the US wants India to attack or else Pakistan to take actions that will hasten it's breakup. They want Pakistan destroyed
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:27 am

Do you still think the Americans are trying to calm things down 905.

It would not surprise me if the Indians are stupid enough to fall for this blatant false flag operation.

If they are then we could do with a billion less of them anyway. If the population is to be reduced to 500 million then this would be a excellent start.

The other 5 billion will just kill themselves. One lug killed himself because he lost 1.5 billion of other peoples money. What would the eejit do if it were his own money he lost.
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:42 am

Why do they want to take Pakistan apart ?
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:06 am

It is a stated aim of Brezinski. Obama has his orders and it is full steam ahead.

It would get rid of an ally of China and would have the added advantage of stirring up the muslims in China and Russia as well
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:17 am

youngdan wrote:
It is a stated aim of Brezinski. Obama has his orders and it is full steam ahead.

It would get rid of an ally of China and would have the added advantage of stirring up the muslims in China and Russia as well

That makes sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:39 pm

Quote :
Pakistan began moving thousands of troops away from the Afghan border towards India today amid tensions following the Mumbai attacks.

The move represents a sharp escalation in the stand off between the nuclear-armed neighbours and stands to weaken Pakistan’s US-backed campaign against al-Qaida and Taliban militants close to Afghanistan.

Two intelligence officials said the army’s 14th Division was being redeployed to Kasur and Sialkot, close to the Indian border. They said some 20,000 troops were on the move. Earlier today, a
security official said that all troop leave had been cancelled.

Indian officials could not be contacted for comment.

India is blaming Pakistan-based militants for last month’s attacks on Mumbai. Islamabad has said it will co-operate in any probe, but says it has seen no evidence backing up India’s claims.

Both countries have said they hope to avoid military conflict, but Pakistan has promised to respond aggressively if India uses force, an option the Indian government has not ruled out.

Pakistan has deployed more than 100,000 soldiers in Waziristan and other north-western regions to fight Islamic militants blamed for surging violence against Western troops in Afghanistan.

A senior security official refused to comment directly on today’s troop movements, but said, “Necessary defensive measures have been taken, they are in place and Pakistan’s armed forces are prepared to tackle any eventuality.”

Pakistan and India have fought three wars since their independence from Britain in 1947.

(Breaking News)

There are a lot of reports of both Indian and Pakistani troop and air force preparations for war.
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Fri Dec 26, 2008 7:28 pm

IIRC the last time this went down to the wire was in January 2001 but Vajpayee got cold feet and backed off.

But in fairness to him had he given the signal to go thousands upon thousands of lives would have been lost and its a given India cannot conquer Pakistan anyway.

Once wargamed this out over the Internet (me as India) and it ended in stalemate as eventually the Big Powers intervened + both sides were pretty exhausted.

But that was B4 the Pakis had got the Nukes! cherry

I've always had a hunch (since 1974 anyway) that this is where we might see their first operational use since 1945....

Be afraid....be very afraid.

UPDATE:

Not safe to be in Pakistan, India tells its citizens

NEW DELHI: India on Friday advised its nationals to avoid travelling or being in Pakistan, fearing their persecution in the wake of media reports there that some Indians have been accused of terror attacks and arrested...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Not_safe_to_be_in_Pakistan_India_tells_its_citizens/articleshow/3897409.cms

TTOI is fairly conservative and is unlikely to be using the kind of rhetoric in its articles about Indo-Pak relations unless something is really up.
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Fri Dec 26, 2008 7:53 pm

Both sides have nuclear weapons, don't they?

I've been reading blogs that suggest that India's middle class is thinking they can win a war. Pakistan's economy is down the drain, and India has become a real industrial power.

US missiles have been hitting the north of Pakistan over the last week, and there is a big US build up planned (Obama pushing for this hard and with three ex generals in his 'cabinet').

The ordinary people in Pakistan and India have absolutely nothing to gain from this.
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:51 pm

We may see localised global warming.
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:36 pm

youngdan wrote:
Senior Indian diplomats says Rice is on a damage control mission and a Western diplomat in Dehli agrees.

God help you 905 if you swallow that. Why not listen to what she said to Pakistan where she threatened a US attack

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C12%5C08%5Cstory_8-12-2008_pg7_55

Is that clear enough for you.
I hate to drag up ancient histroy but let's examine this. Having read the first link, I can't see any mention of a US attack on Pakistan. 'Typical!', youngdan responds, 'Predictable!' But what does Rice say?
Quote :
This is a time when Pakistan must act. They must act in concert with India, with the United States. Great Britain is helping.
This is the only mention I can find of the US 'acting'. Perhaps youngdan would humour me and point out exactly where she says the US is going to attack.



youngdan wrote:
If you still think the US is trying to calm things you have these 2 donkeys flying there to say that Indian air strikes are justified

http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/07/stories/2008120757500100.htm
As for the second link, we have two Americans who deliver a hawkish message to the good people of Lahore. But the message is from the Indian prime minister, not the US. What does the report say?
Quote :
If Pakistan did not act swiftly to arrest the people involved, the Senator said, India would be left with no option but to conduct aerial operations against select targets in Pakistan.

Senator McCain, the Republican presidential candidate who lost to Barack Obama, told a select group of Pakistanis at an informal lunch in Lahore on Saturday that this was conveyed to him by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in New Delhi.
The most McCain says about the US is that they would not be able to do much to stop India in the event of an attack.


youngdan wrote:
Posters like you will never admit being wrong so you will be back saying they meant something else or maybe you wont be back at all.

Regardless, the US wants India to attack or else Pakistan to take actions that will hasten it's breakup. They want Pakistan destroyed
Now, I can't see what's wrong with responding to something I think is wrong (incidentally I apologise for the very late response). You're right however, I do like to be right. It's very bad for my ego. You would be doing me a great deal of good by pointing out exactly, so as there's no confusion, where it says that the Americans have been stoking tensions. The McCain report comes close but is overshadowed by Rice's remarks, seen in the other report you highlighted, that they all should be working together, “She said she had tried to focus India’s attention on 'an effective response,' adding, “They (India and Pakistan) are really not each other’s primary threat”.
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:01 pm

Just to contemporise things, let's see what's happening now.
Pakistan says no war with India amid calls for calm
These are the ones moving their troops around, mind. The whole thing produced a flurry of activity among the international community, chief among them the Yanks, all calling for calm.

The last time things got this tense, incidentally, was November 2002. Then someone in the UN mention Iraq and that was that for the little attention-seekers.
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:09 pm

Are you seriously pretending that you believe that Rice when she insists Pakistan must take a course of action that the threat of force is not implyed.

You may not have noticed that there are US aircraft bombing Pakistan but the Pakistanis who are getting blown up most likely did.

Do you think that McCain and Liberman are just messenger boys for the Indians. What type of childish thinking is that.

India will act as the US sees fit.

The squeeze is being put on Pakistan but you refuse to believe it. In your reality it is Pakistan who wants war.

In the world according to 905 midgets attack giants
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:05 pm

youngdan wrote:
Are you seriously pretending that you believe that Rice when she insists Pakistan must take a course of action that the threat of force is not implyed.

You may not have noticed that there are US aircraft bombing Pakistan but the Pakistanis who are getting blown up most likely did.

Do you think that McCain and Liberman are just messenger boys for the Indians. What type of childish thinking is that.

India will act as the US sees fit.

The squeeze is being put on Pakistan but you refuse to believe it. In your reality it is Pakistan who wants war.

In the world according to 905 midgets attack giants

I don’t pretend.

When I want to know what someone thinks of a situation, I don’t read veiled threats into their remarks to suit my argument. You might think it childish of me but I listen to what they say.

If you can find me an example of Rice, McCain, or anyone with authority actually saying in simple English that Pakistan will be attacked then I will pay attention. Till then I will pay attention to what they are actually doing, which to me seems to involve calling for calm.

The US has been attacking Pakistan and Pakistanis you say. Unfortunately for your argument, so too has the Pakistani government. When I think of ‘Pakistan’ it’s not the remote anarchic badlands of the Northwest I have in mind. When I think of ‘Pakistanis’, it’s not the militants of these lawless areas, who yesterday set of a bomb killing 23 I have in mind. When you say Pakistan is under threat from the Americans I presume it’s their government you have in mind. If you can give me an example of the government being attacked by the US then this would be relevant.

I believe that the squeeze is being put on Pakistan to do something about the militants the country shelters, both in the Northwest province and in the murky world of her intelligence network. I don’t believe a war or a destabilised Pakistani government is the desired outcome.

In my opinion no one wants war, apart from yourself, some troublemakers and maybe some in India. I think it silly of you to suggest that I think Pakistan wants war. I certainly don’t think that the US government wants a war. You speak of weakening an ally of China. Pakistan is an ally of the US too and one she needs to succeed in Afghanistan. You speak of stirring up Muslims in China and Russia; you forget that the US has problems with stirred-up Muslims too.
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:27 pm

I do not think Pakistan wants war, why should they.

You believe nobody wants war and are looking for simple English. Simple English is for simpletons(not you), that is, public consumption.

If you are correct then there will be no war and the government will survive. We will wait and see
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:38 pm

I didn't say you thought Pakistan wanted a war.

I think if we veer off simple English then it's fair game for anyone to interpret what they're saying. There's no point in giving us material and expecting us read it as you think it should be read. I could interpret Rice to mean India is about to be crapped on by the US.

Do you want to discuss any of the points I raised about why a weakened Pakistan would be a disadvantage to the US?
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PostSubject: Re: Series of attacks in Indian city, Mumbai - Troops move to Indian/Pakistani border   Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:48 pm

I will look later and am interested in signs that the US wants a strong stable Pakistan. This is counter to what I think Brezenski and his crew want. I am open to persuasion on this.

I doubt there is a grain of goodness in either Rice, McCain or Graham though
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